Middle East conflict

[canon docre]

Whilst our dear friends party innocently, a drama unfolds in the Middle East.
Israel unjustified aggressor or warrantable defender of its own existence?
Will the conflict spread in the region?

what are your thoughts?

[EvilBastard]

My thoughts? Madder than hell, and for purely selfish reasons: I am booked to travel to Syria and Lebanon for a holiday in 2 months, and now it is looking increasingly likely that given that British Airways has an aversion to trying to land its expensive planes on runways that are full of holes, the trip is going to be cancelled. It occurred to me that the Israeli government was just trying to p*ss me off because I called Ariel Sharon "a fat old b*stard whose death would be the most likely thing to advance the cause of peace in the region", but Olmert probably wasn't in the pub at the time.

It's six of one and half a dozen of the other a lot of the time - neither side can claim the moral high ground, and the majority of people just want some kind of peace and the ability to go to work, raise a family and such without having their playgrounds disrupted by suicide bombers or having an artillery shell land on their picnic. Unfortunately it's the selfish few that f*ck it up for everyone else. It doesn't help that some countries take the view that Israel can't do anything wrong, and others support acts of terrorism perpetrated by extremists.

I love this part of the world - everyone I've encountered there is open, honest, friendly, and hospitable. Just a shame that the various governments and power groups can't get it together.

[rian]

A new war is very, very close.

And I don't like it. But the issue is very tricky. It's easy to hate the israelians, but also the palestinian.


Hmm....

[Dark]

I hope we've learned from last time that we should stay out of this war, unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary..

[EvilBastard]

I hope we've learned from last time that we should stay out of this war, unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary..

Reason why it's necessary - wars win elections (Thatcher in 82)
Reason why it's not necessary - neither party has any oil

[Zuma]

It's a very good question Canon and one that is almost impossible to answer I guess. I for one do not have the depth of knowledge to explain what is going on or a deep enough understanding of the history.
Much ill feeling all round of course.

Certainly there are superpowers and pawns involved and no doubt hidden agendas too.

Like so much of this it is shades of grey also.

It certainly is very troubling on all fronts, firstly for the people on the street just trying to live their lives and secondly on the global scale...

Not many answers and a few more questions I'm afraid.

[aims]

Now it is looking increasingly likely that given that British Airways has an aversion to trying to land its expensive planes on runways that are full of holes, the trip is going to be cancelled.

An inoffensive, on topic, funny joke in a discussion of the Arab-Israeli conflict? You, sir, deserve a medal

On the subject of the "war" itself, does anyone remember the days when two countries would sit down around a table and try to smooth out their issues before knocking six bells out of each other? Oh wouldn't that be a lovely principle to adhere to these days

[Silver_Owl]

Hizbollah aircraft has just bombed a warship. It's all ghoing to kick off soon enough.

[aims]

Hizbollah aircraft has just bombed a warship. It's all ghoing to kick off soon enough.

Going to?

As far as I'm concerned, more than a couple of missiles means that it very much has.

[Silver_Owl]

Hizbollah aircraft has just bombed a warship. It's all ghoing to kick off soon enough.

Going to?

As far as I'm concerned, more than a couple of missiles means that it very much has.

Very true. I meant on an International level.
Surely

[Dark]

I always used to say that the writers of a Simpsons episode set in 2010 with this quote would have red faces:

<Moe> A Brit, huh? We saved your ass in World War II.
<Lisa's boyfriend> Well, we saved YOUR ass in World War III
<Moe> This is true.

I don't remember the guy's name.. but it seems the world is doing its best to prove me wrong and them right.

[aims]

It better bloody not

Call me selfish, but I value not being bombed

[Zuma]

A bit of background here -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 180840.stm

Is it significant that this kicks off as the next G8 opens?

[Ocean Moves]

Whilst our dear friends party innocently, a drama unfolds in the Middle East.
Israel unjustified aggressor or warrantable defender of its own existence?
Will the conflict spread in the region?

what are your thoughts?

Israel are being too heavy handed, as usual.
they cannot win by military means - if that were possible - the USA would
bomb Iraq to oblivion tomorrow.
the rise of extremism in the arab countries has been decades in the making.
Iraq now has a Shia government sympathetic to Iran in Power.
How did that happen ? thanks to the USA´s ill conceived and counter productive military policies in the last 5 years.

[nick the stripper]

The eastern world, it is exploding
Violence flarin’, bullets loadin’
You’re old enough to kill, but not for votin’
You don’t believe in war, but what’s that gun you’re totin’
And even the Jordan River has bodies floatin’

But you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Don’t you understand what I’m tryin’ to say
Can’t you feel the fears I’m feelin’ today?
If the button is pushed, there’s no runnin’ away
There’ll be no one to save, with the world in a grave
[Take a look around ya boy, it's bound to scare ya boy]

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Yeah, my blood’s so mad feels like coagulatin’
I’m sitting here just contemplatin’
I can’t twist the truth, it knows no regulation.
Handful of senators don’t pass legislation
And marches alone can’t bring integration
When human respect is disintegratin’
This whole crazy world is just too frustratin’

And you tell me
Over and over and over again, my friend
Ah, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China
Then take a look around to Selma, Alabama
You may leave here for 4 days in space
But when you return, it’s the same old place
The poundin’ of the drums, the pride and disgrace
You can bury your dead, but don’t leave a trace
Hate your next-door neighbor, but don’t forget to say grace
And… tell me over and over and over and over again, my friend
You don’t believe
We’re on the eve
Of destruction
Mm, no no, you don’t believe
We’re on the eve
of destruction.

Sorry, I just felt like doing it once. I’ll get me hippy coat, and I’ll see you at the fireworks display.

[Ozpat]

It's sad what's happening over there.....for both sides. There never will be real peace.

Israel is a state in the wrong area IMO. Not that the area is wrong but they just don't belong there. I wonder who's to blame...

[stefan moermans]

mike anthony once sang "Why can't we live together". The answer : we're probably doomed to destroy ourselves one way or the other.

[Dark]

"Here come the Hezbollah"

Too soon?

2..5..0..0..0...

[nick the stripper]

we're probably doomed to destroy ourselves one way or the other.

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I could really care less. There’s some nice people out there, but, to quote Bill Hicks: “humanity is a virus in shoes".

[Erudite]

Just one example among many that we should stop teaching children religion
and teach them about it instead.
The only thing more idiotic IMHO is the idea that you can force democracy
on a people at gunpoint (except it was never about democracy).

It would be nice to think that one day they'll take a step back and realise
that the children on both sides bleed red.

In answer to the original point: attempted genocide of your race is liable
to make you a little touchy about protecting what you (rightfully or wrongly)
believe is yours. But I'd like to think the Holocaust would
have made the Israelis a little more sensitive to other people's human
rights.

As if...

Another day when I can't watch the news for fear of throwing things at
the TV.

[Jaimie1980]

I have some ancestry from Christians from Lebanon and Palestine and my tendency is always to side with those who are oppressed. However I realise that there are some very good Israelis who care about their neighbours and that Hizbollah are certainly not a force for good. They do not represent all the people of Lebanon by their very nature. However it seems that they have more power than the Lebanese government itself which is a very worrying state of affairs. One's thoughts should be with the innocent people on both sides caught up in the conflict.

[Ocean Moves]

Just one example among many that we should stop teaching children religion
and teach them about it instead.
T

Nice. just about 2000 years too late.

[ruffers]

Another one here who doesn't really know enought about it to give it any kind of analysis, but reacting to the headlines the Israeli's appear to react somewhat disproportionately, 50 civilians dead etc. And I find it difficult to believe that the family killed on a beach happened to stand on a mine planted by Hezbollah on their own land at exactly the same time Isreal was shelling the area....

As ever, the solution lies with the US, although thankfully for once not through use of military force (hopefully). If they stopped supporting Israel no matter what, vetoing Security Council resolutions etc, and put their mind to it they could force some kind of resolution. But it appears they won't. As an aside, if anyone can explain why the US is so adamantly behind Israel I'd appreciate it.

And yes, genocide on a people will be make them "a little touchy about protecting what you (rightfully or wrongly) believe is yours". But the Palestinians didn't do it, and it was 70 odd years ago now. It doesn't give a state the right to behave however it .

Equally, none of this gives the right to the Palestinians to attack Israel. I can't help but get the impression though that Israel is quite happy when they do it as it gives an excuse to respond.

No doubt my views are coloured by what paper I read, and what TV I watch. I'll be interested to read a more informed opinion.

[Ramone]

It's a shame the people of Coventry, Leicester and all those parts of England just can't get on with each other. Will this mean that sooner or later Leicester will try and occupy parts of East Anglia ? I was always sceptical this may happen some day..but i've always thought deep down that in my life time we would never see real peace in that area..War in the East Midlands was inevitable

What? the Middle East? Bugger. I know there's a Far East..but is there a Near East too ?

O-Qua Tangin Wann: Now, erm..big up the Biaviians!

[Dark]

I know there's a Far East..but is there a Near East too ?

Eastern Bloc I guess..