But Genevieve

THE place for your Sisters-related comments, questions and snippets of Sisters information. For those who do not know, The Sisters of Mercy are a rock'n'roll band. And a pop band. And an industrial groove machine. Or so they say. They make records. Lots of records, apparently. But not in your galaxy. They play concerts. Lots of concerts, actually. But you still cannot see them. So what's it all about, Alfie? This is one of the few tightly-moderated forums on Heartland, so please keep on-topic. All off-topic posts will either be moved or deleted. Chairman Bux is the editor and the editor's decision is final. Danke.
User avatar
Todashi
Road Kill
Posts: 78
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 09:53

I don't know why they'd bother with a physical release. Like, what would be the cost vs return on it? If and it's an enormous if, they actually intend to release anything, then they'd be far better off doing it themselves, releasing it as a digital product and using it to drive gig attendances. That would be the point, as well as possibly scratching a creative itch and having a sense of pride in the work. At least in my opinion.
“I don't want people to come and see our gig because of the magnificent things I'm doing with my hips, but it's their evening, you know. They have to have fun. I'm a little bit naive."
User avatar
ruffers
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1924
Joined: 24 Jan 2005, 16:43
Location: At home - but you knew that didn't you?

Do they need to drive gig attendances? They are almost all basically sold out anyway. I don't think a random digital release without marketing back up is going to create legions of new fans needing bigger venues.

And that all assumes gigs will look anything like they used to in the future.
2019 - London London Brussels Brussels Stockholm Paris Utrecht
2020 - Leeds & Nottingham, so far anyway. And Frankfurt. And Manchester with huge thanks to Gothicbiff

Not Frankfurt
User avatar
Todashi
Road Kill
Posts: 78
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 09:53

ruffers wrote:Do they need to drive gig attendances? They are almost all basically sold out anyway. I don't think a random digital release without marketing back up is going to create legions of new fans needing bigger venues.

And that all assumes gigs will look anything like they used to in the future.
You're dead right. They don't need to drive gig attendances, which is why the whole idea is pretty odd. Why start now, after a near 30 year gap in releases? The only reason, it seems to me, is to show they can if they want to, to be a bit perverse, and if they think the recently written tracks deserve a bit of showcasing.

Your point about gigs not being the same is possibly also on the money. It could be quite a long time before people are comfortable being squashed together in a gig. That's if venues can get insurance for it and/or insurance companies are indemnified for responsibility for contagion.

People who earn their livings primarily from live performances (Ben, Dylan etc) hopefully have some savings. Because they're living on them now. (To be clear, I've no idea what their personal circumstances are, and they're none of my business, I'm just extrapolating.) I doubt anyone's business or personal finance plan included 'involuntary 18 month hiatus' on it.

So maybe releasing records might actually happen, if only because it CAN be done during a pandemic while gigs can't.
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 20377
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:

It seems to be received wisdom that Eldritch has some other source of income external to the Sisters, but it occurs to me that we don't actually know this to be the case. I don't know how the money works in these circumstances, but the way the tour was suddenly curtailed after March/UK leg may very well have left Eldo substantially worse off than he was expecting to be.

If the cancellation of the majority of the tour was expected by mid March (I can't remember when it became obvious) then maybe a single release would have been seen as an emergency revenue-generation exercise?
advanced, forthright, signifficant
User avatar
Swinnow
Overbomber
Posts: 2532
Joined: 15 Mar 2005, 08:51
Location: Self-isolating from feral Guinea Pigs

Certainly the conversation around the bar table immediately after the Leeds gig was how many of the other gigs after Rock City would actually happen.

The (welcome) recording rumours and the relative stepping up of the merch operation certainly paints a picture.
....if I have to explain, then you'll never understand....
User avatar
Todashi
Road Kill
Posts: 78
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 09:53

markfiend wrote:It seems to be received wisdom that Eldritch has some other source of income external to the Sisters, but it occurs to me that we don't actually know this to be the case. I don't know how the money works in these circumstances, but the way the tour was suddenly curtailed after March/UK leg may very well have left Eldo substantially worse off than he was expecting to be.

If the cancellation of the majority of the tour was expected by mid March (I can't remember when it became obvious) then maybe a single release would have been seen as an emergency revenue-generation exercise?
Eldritch made his money from selling records when there was still money to be made. Floodland must have generated an enormous sum. He's a bright guy and he sold the rights to the Sisters back catalogue a long time ago. If he didn't invest the cash properly I'd be quite surprised. Lots of musicians end up skint having squandered fortunes but he strikes me as quite a fastidious guy.

But then, even people with share portfolios can be screwed by the markets. Who knows?
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 20377
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:

Todashi wrote:Floodland must have generated an enormous sum.
Most of which he p*ssed against the wall recording Vision Thing, which is why the Evil Record Companyâ„¢ made him go out on tour in 1990.
Todashi wrote:...and he sold the rights to the Sisters back catalogue a long time ago. If he didn't invest the cash properly...
As I recall, he was quoted at the time as having used the money to buy a white Mercedes. Doesn't strike me as a particularly sound investment ;)

But like you say, who knows? ;D
advanced, forthright, signifficant
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 20377
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:

Swinnow wrote:...the relative stepping up of the merch operation certainly paints a picture.
Yes, that too.
advanced, forthright, signifficant
User avatar
Swinnow
Overbomber
Posts: 2532
Joined: 15 Mar 2005, 08:51
Location: Self-isolating from feral Guinea Pigs

There must have been a gnashing of teeth when the realisation of the impact on the XXXX, or is it XL, tour revenue hit.
....if I have to explain, then you'll never understand....
User avatar
markfiend
goriller of form 3b
Posts: 20377
Joined: 11 Nov 2003, 10:55
Location: st custards
Contact:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floodland ... erformance

Wikipedia says Floodland went Gold (100000 copies sold) in March '88 but didn't recoup costs until '89. Combined with cross-collateralisation for Vision Thing, I'd be surprised if Eldritch ever saw a penny from Floodland.
advanced, forthright, signifficant
User avatar
Todashi
Road Kill
Posts: 78
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 09:53

markfiend wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floodland ... erformance

Wikipedia says Floodland went Gold (100000 copies sold) in March '88 but didn't recoup costs until '89. Combined with cross-collateralisation for Vision Thing, I'd be surprised if Eldritch ever saw a penny from Floodland.
I'm really surprised by those figures. I would have thought it was much more successful than that, given it's cultural impact. Certainly, I knew a lot of people who bought it, and the band has brand recognition even today that completely outstrips its three albums.

If that brand was built without making a tonne of cash, then that's amazing.
User avatar
Erudite
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1847
Joined: 24 Apr 2002, 01:00
Location: Lost In Space

Before we all get too carried away, we're now midway through June and the Record News page on the official site is still the old "ERROR 404".
I'm curbing my excitement for now. :wink:
You are what you drink - I'm a bitter man!
User avatar
Being645
Above the Chemist
Posts: 12680
Joined: 09 Apr 2009, 12:54
Location: reconstruction status: 76,8%

Yes. If we're lucky, we're gonna see some videos of them at the Chania Rock Festival next... which were great, in fact ... ;D ...
User avatar
Todashi
Road Kill
Posts: 78
Joined: 21 Jun 2019, 09:53

Erudite wrote:Before we all get too carried away, we're now midway through June and the Record News page on the official site is still the old "ERROR 404".
I'm curbing my excitement for now. :wink:
Oh I don't believe this rumour for a second. Even if Von told me himself, I still wouldn't believe me, because he's basically the musical equivalent of the boy who cried wolf at this stage.

I'd need to be listening to the tracks in person before I'd believe it, and even then, I'd want to be sure it wasn't 'the merry thoughts' or whoever that sound alike band on Youtube are.
User avatar
Swinnow
Overbomber
Posts: 2532
Joined: 15 Mar 2005, 08:51
Location: Self-isolating from feral Guinea Pigs

Being645 wrote:Yes. If we're lucky, we're gonna see some videos of them at the Chania Rock Festival next... which were great, in fact ... ;D ...
For a minute then I thought, "Ahhh, the lazy bugger has finished that live DVD at long last", but then I remembered who we're dealing with :lol:
....if I have to explain, then you'll never understand....
User avatar
MrChris
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1306
Joined: 21 May 2003, 11:34
Location: A Forest

I don't think AE has any inclination to release records - a mixture of being a stubborn git, the diminishing incentives, plus possibly being a bit more fragile than he likes to project. What I suspect happens every now and then is that the young whippersnappers come along, write some nice tunes, get all enthusiastic, and *almost* inspire AE to actually release something. At which point he would typically find some reason for not going through with it (that would be my reading of the Pearson period, anyway, and I'm pretty sure Chris Sheehan would have loved to release a record too, only to run aground on the Great Rock of Von). So I'm trying not to get excited either - but I wouldn't complete rule it out.
Chris

---------------------------------------------
Again and again and again...
User avatar
Electrochrome
Gonzoid Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 257
Joined: 12 Sep 2002, 01:00
Location: FL

I think Todashi was spot on. The pandemic could well be a trigger because of the deferral of most gigs to next year (who knows where we'll be) which disrupted a lot of plans including $$$. Not so much for Von personally, he's an employee of a trust and mentioned he pulls down a few hundred thousand pounds a year. But for the rest of the band AND the crew, the Doktor, etc etc...it's still a machine he's running and he's responsible for them.

Also, just being locked down this long...and given his proximity to Dylan, it's feasible they'd just hunker down and finish ONE track. I highly doubt it's a physical product but who knows, I know I would snatch it up. I cant' see a digital single producing that much money, but maybe they'll finally test the water.

Even next year, who knows how many people will want to pack into a hall for a concert so he could be hedging his bets. Ultimately, by default I don't believe it.
"Consistency is the sign of a decaying brain"
User avatar
Drsisters
Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
Posts: 624
Joined: 26 Jan 2002, 00:00
Location: Europe

If you watch live footage from 2019 and 2020 you see a interesting difference. 2019 Ben and Dylan didn't have audience recording mics on their mic stands, Which they had these short dates in 2020. Only reason for that is that they are recording the shows from the mixing desk :notworthy: :notworthy:
Andrew Eldritch Dour Festival 1997: Yeah, We take any request... As much as we ever do.
Wilkstein
Road Kill
Posts: 20
Joined: 09 May 2006, 00:22
Location: 30 Seconds Over Reeperbahn

ruffers wrote:Do they need to drive gig attendances? They are almost all basically sold out anyway. I don't think a random digital release without marketing back up is going to create legions of new fans needing bigger venues.

And that all assumes gigs will look anything like they used to in the future.
He'd certainly need something released to tour North America, which is long overdue and could be quite lucrative compared to other parts of the world.
paint it black
Black, black, black & even blacker
Posts: 4510
Joined: 11 Jul 2002, 01:00

Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.
Empathy is wasted by nice people
GC
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1002
Joined: 27 Dec 2005, 22:05

paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.
Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused. :innocent:
paint it black
Black, black, black & even blacker
Posts: 4510
Joined: 11 Jul 2002, 01:00

GC wrote:
paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.
Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused. :innocent:
A passable joke I felt. However it had been a long day and my sense of humour optic was as distorted as a cracked pint pot. Must do better
Empathy is wasted by nice people
User avatar
Being645
Above the Chemist
Posts: 12680
Joined: 09 Apr 2009, 12:54
Location: reconstruction status: 76,8%

paint it black wrote:
GC wrote:
paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.
Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused. :innocent:
A passable joke I felt. However it had been a long day and my sense of humour optic was as distorted as a cracked pint pot. Must do better
Anyway, without him it might have taken further decades to have at least a good part of old Doktor's things sorted, I guess ... :wink: ...
GC
Slight Overbomber
Posts: 1002
Joined: 27 Dec 2005, 22:05

paint it black wrote:
GC wrote:
paint it black wrote:Very few have mentioned Davey as a catalyst. Odd, even before he rejoined he was being held up, by Chris, as a preferred producer.

He has real pedigree and his role in the present incarnation should be ignored at your peril.
Davey is the catalyst and Chris is nt....I'm confused. :innocent:
A passable joke I felt. However it had been a long day and my sense of humour optic was as distorted as a cracked pint pot. Must do better
It was bad :lol: ...Im just trying to distract myself from the impending disappointment of no release or the joy of something new......this "But Genevieve" thread has got me all in a fluster.
User avatar
mh
Underneath the Rock
Posts: 7469
Joined: 23 Jun 2003, 14:41
Location: A civilized European city

It was Ravey Davey who told me (among others) in Bristol; the fact that it didn't come from Von does, IMO, give it somewhat more credibility as Von's statements about releases have been known to not quite work out in the past.

At that time there was little or no indication that the rest of the tour would be cancelled, but by the time of Nottingham a few days later it was definitely off. Things were moving very fast back then, and I'd find it hard to believe that the band didn't have at least an inkling that the tour was at risk.
Trigonometry. It's a sin.
Post Reply