Chaotican: Nothing but respect and mutual feelings from me. I hope you enjoyed yourself. You've given me many things to consider as well, so thanks. I appreciate it.
Hi Zacharias: Thanks for the support. Truly.
Hmm, I thought I covered the â€œassholeâ€� and â€œchanging peopleâ€™s mindsâ€� issues in my last response to you. But if you want me to discuss it further, here goes:
I wrote: â€œSecondly, is it the term â€œassholeâ€� to which you object? Fair enough. I do have a potty mouth. Iâ€™ll try to tone it down.â€�
I could have just as easily used another slang term like goober or jerk, but like I said, I curse a lot and Iâ€™ll try not to with you. I think itâ€™s mean to play a concert in a place where certain minorities in the population get no opportunity to see said concert, whether they buy can afford a ticket or not. People on this thread have written about how thereâ€™s no need to deprive ordinary Israelis, fans of certain bands, the escape and entertainment of live music in difficult and complex times. Well what about, for example, the possibility that there are die hard Radiohead fans who live in Gaza or the West Bank who canâ€™t access the same escape and entertainment for one night in Tel Aviv? What about their deprivation? Itâ€™s heartbreaking and unfair. I understand why bands would choose to play anyway. I understand that they may see a benefit to themselves, their tours, their Israeli fans. That demand may be high, that they may have a personal connection to the fans there. I still think itâ€™s mean.
Even though I think itâ€™s mean to play Israel, I canâ€™t necessarily black-ball or cut out of my life every artist I admire who has played there or have engaged in behaviors with which I donâ€™t agree. Perhaps itâ€™s a failure of my morality. Itâ€™s a very personal issue, one which people have to decide for themselves, to support or withdraw support when oneâ€™s compass speaks. The OP decided to withdraw support or the Sisters. Others continue to support the Sisters. I donâ€™t begrudge anyone their decisions. Me personally, I have never seen them live and certainly wonâ€™t see them on this tour. I have three CDs purchased second hand and ripped to my ipod. None of these circumstances have anything to do with boycott, but like I said, boycott may influence my decisions later on.
In addition, please do not make assumptions about my motives. Please do not make assumptions about why I would use the words s**t, f**k, c**t, asshole etc., because while you may see just two reasons why someone other than yourself would use these words, we are not the same in that respect.
Doing what again? It is my position that I have no right to tell anyone what to do. Bands or fans. Iâ€™m not you. Iâ€™m not Andrew Eldritch. I have no idea what you or he should or ought to do.
â€œBut to me it looks like this: this is my opinion, the best and only response to invitation to play Israelâ€�
Look, if you take my statements to be an expression of my opinion, then how can my statements be interpreted as the best and only response to bands playing Israel? Opinion isnâ€™t decree. It isnâ€™t a command. It isnâ€™t even advice. Itâ€™s what a person thinks. Itâ€™s subjective. Again, as I have reiterated above, it is my position that I have no right to tell anyone what to do. To me, your statements look like this: â€œI canâ€™t stand your opinions. You think youâ€™re better than me.â€� Which is your prerogative. Iâ€™m not hurt or wronged. But please do not put words in my mouth and please do not accuse me of claims I have never made. I donâ€™t want this to escalate with you, so perhaps we can agree to take a step back from each other. I respect your opinions and wish you nothing but the best.
Euphoria, Planet Dave and markfiend, you raise some very astute examples. Iâ€™ll try to respond as narrowly as I can. I believe that people need money to live. People who play music for a living need money to live. I find it very hard to believe that any band, perhaps aside from those just starting out, can afford to lose money on a tour. Never mind, bands just starting out included. Since album sales are in the s**t, touring and licensing make up large portions of musiciansâ€™ incomes. (Iâ€™m sure there are other ways, and Iâ€™m happy to be enlightened on the subject.) And these days, even touring has razor thin margins.
I recall an interview with Von, canâ€™t remember whether it was print or radio. I think it was a New Zealand radio show but I canâ€™t look it up at the moment, wherein, he said, in his current situation, that he wonâ€™t play concerts unless there is a guarantee of x amount of money. I think it was a figure like 40,000 pound, because I remember doing the math. 2000 tickets at 20 pound per or thereabouts. And that seems perfectly reasonable to me, because the man needs to pay his crew, pay his bills and eat and live in a decent fashion. I canâ€™t imagine why anyone would put their bottom lines in jeopardy by signing up for tour dates that would come at a loss. Especially with the state of album sales and the dealings of publishing houses and record companies.
Unless youâ€™re a band like Radiohead, and itâ€™s not uncommon for them to receive two million dollar paychecks for one gig, and after paying costs, they probably make close to a million dollars, pay their crew and walk away with a large sum of money each. They could stand to take a hit on a couple of tour dates, not that they do, because their gigs are frequently sold out. And unless youâ€™re a lesser known band, and members have day jobs or other financial means with which their primary needs are met.
If it seemed like I was accusing Von of greediness, I apologize, because that wasnâ€™t my intention. My position is that money determines where bands play. Baselines of income. And the extras, the icing on the cake, the high paid gigs at certain festivals, well, as long as baselines of income are met, bands do have the power to accept or decline. Clearly for Von, playing Whitby is not worth the cash. He doesnâ€™t need the extra, and good for him. And Iâ€™m not trying to imply it would be greedy or wrong if he did accept. Itâ€™s a very good point, and one to which I gladly concede. There are instances where itâ€™s not all about a payday. But what if a tour could not be arranged in which minimums were met?
On the subject of cashing in on low end punter friendly goth twaddle, Iâ€™m not convinced. Was the goth music market so lucrative in the late 80s/early 90s for Von to have been able to retire on the profits? Youâ€™re talking about the period after Floodland, a stunning pop record that introduced a wider audience to the Sisters and announced Vonâ€™s interest in going mainstream? Off the top of my head I can only think of the Cureâ€™s Disintegration and Depeche Modeâ€™s Violator during that time, as very successful millions selling records that have a whiff of goth. Please correct me if Iâ€™m wrong. I can see Von being able to retire to a bunker on that kind of money for sure. I also think of those records as genuinely fantastic, and if Von wanted to release goth twaddle like that, I for one, would die to hear it. So, no, I donâ€™t think itâ€™s as easy as not choosing to get rich off goth punter friendly music.
I know Iâ€™ll probably get flamed for writing all this, and I genuinely apologize to anyone who Iâ€™ve offended. Iâ€™m not trying to start fights. I hold you Heartlanders in high regard and respect everyone here very much. I know paychecks and profits and the information out there about that kind of stuff is not totally transparent, so speculation is unavoidable. And the reasons why any band would play in any location are ultimately personal and probably unknowable. But money makes the world go round. Bands are not exempt from that. It doesnâ€™t necessarily make them greedy. It is a real life motive. Altruism or principles or integrity donâ€™t often come at the expense of oneâ€™s livelihood. Sometimes they do, but weâ€™re not talking about Chelsea Manning here. Weâ€™re talking about bands that go on tour of their own volition. Thanks for the opportunity to express myself and I wish you all the best.