Lucretia

Got any interesting thoughts on a set of lyrics? Any that don't involve the word "indeed"? Find yourself struggling to decipher all those obtuse references Von makes? Read "1959 And All That" and still no clearer? Nope, us neither. Postcards found lying in a skip around the back of the Chemists can be found here... Don't say you weren't warned.
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robertzombie
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If a long train was held up page on page,

what would it be doing?
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It's be doing the b-side.
And the flexi.

At least that's always why I thought he whispers "Long Train" when it's fading out, because on the single, you'd flip the record and play it.
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I believe it's a reference to the train of a wedding dress being held up by page boys as the bride walks down the aisle.
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robertzombie
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oh, what's that got to do with the rest of the song? Infact... what is this song about?!
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Andrew described it as his "Welcome Aboard Patricia" song. I'm guessing the wedding theme is to do with Lucretia Borgia. The "dance the ghost" bit is rumoured to be about Mr Marx's post-Sisters project.
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robertzombie wrote:oh, what's that got to do with the rest of the song? Infact... what is this song about?!
two worlds = the direction the band was going

dum dum bullets = wayne, well he is! (see also, shoot to kill)

long train = sisters song

page on page = lawyers

hard reign held up by rage = the band and internal sqabbling

and hence, once a railroad and now it's done (see also, empire down)

hi fat pat, we're the new sisters :von:

Lucretia Borgia messed around with poison and gift is german for... :wink:
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Izzy HaveMercy
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A little bit OT, but I always liked the duality of the 'Gift' as a title, it being a)the german word for that smiley PiB mentions AND b)the proverbial wooden horse he gives the 'other camp' (Sisteres Husseyae donum dant ;D)...

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paint it black wrote:long train = sisters song

page on page = lawyers
Perhaps.. Long Train was being held up because Eldritch needed to get permission to rerelease it, hence the "page on page"s?

Jusat thought that, cause not only was it made with the other Sisters, the rights to the indie songs were sold anyway.. or was that around SGWBM time?
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MadameButterfly
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The way he laughs just before "long long train"

I get that on so many levels.....but "dance the ghost with me"

that within itself takes me back to my youth *13 years young when Sisters came into my life and this song*, this song....yeah meanings within meanings, the video could be so much better...this to me is one song where meanings flow from one dimension into another when listening. and within listening the soul shall follow with dance...
here we go again....
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don't over analyse kids, please
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
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Petseri
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Sometimes a banana is just a banana?
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MadameButterfly
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or train just a train?


that kind of thing?
here we go again....
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Petseri wrote:Sometimes a banana is just a banana?
Well, but then there's a chiquita :lol:
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James Blast wrote:don't over analyse kids, please
in this section of the forum? the temptation to say "indeed" is overwhelming... :innocent:
"...a right hand is a horrible thing to lose..."

#WeOnlyHateMancs
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Yip Harburg wrote:Once I built a railroad, I made it run,
Made it race against time.
Once I built a railroad, now it's done --
Brother, can you spare a dime?
Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten.
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kafka
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Forgive the thread necro, but - as I just posted to the other place - "long train" may refer to the US Declaration of Independence:

http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/

In general, there seems to be plenty in Lucretia about the two worlds of Blighty and America coming together (and/or breaking apart), so it rather fits.

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...so it can't possibly refer to a train - you know, the big metal locomotive choo-choo type - being "held up" (i.e., stopped dead) on the tracks for some reason? Or being "held up" as in a Wild West-type bandit heist, complete with pistols? ;)
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A few quick comments. Most people seem to think "dance the ghost with me" refers to Ghost Dance. I reckon that, on the contrary, it refers to The Sisters of Mercy, circa 1982 to 1985. In an interview, Eldritch said the song was written as a "welcome abroad" for Patricia Morrison. In this context, I think that in "we got the empire now as then [...] Lucretia, my reflection, dance the ghost with me", "my reflection" means "my consideration" and "dance the ghost with me" means to perform as The Sisters, but as a mere ghost or trace of what once was. After all, it's really only Eldritch on his own, using Morrison to present to the public the illusion of a band.

"I hear the songs of the city and dispossessed, get down, get undressed" - this seems to be Eldritch saying that since The m*****n tried to take his property, i.e. ownership of The Sisters of Mercy, he's going to get off his thrown, take off his robes, and "get in the boxing ring".
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Jeremiah
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I always thought the 'long train held up by page on page' might be a reference to Soviet bureaucracy; ie a journey being held up by the need to check pages of official documents etc.
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stufarq
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Hot metal refers to printing presses and is often associated with newspapers - hence "page on page".

I suspect that the "welcome Patricia" angle really only refers to using the name Lucretia, which ties in with her look. The song itself seems to be much more political, with overt images of war, propaganda and empires rising and falling. In particular, America is often thought of as an empire that started as a railroad. One of the pivotal moments in consolidating that empire by suppressing the Native Americans was the massacre at Wounded Knee, which was brought on after increased performances of the controversial Ghost Dance ritual.

Or possibly it's about sex.
Last edited by stufarq on 22 Nov 2008, 22:12, edited 1 time in total.
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eotunun
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Sex seems to be the canonical reply to the "What's that Sister's song about?". :lol:
Like a red thread that goes through all the songs, much like the white line.
Add some stars and stripes, and: Another canonical! :lol:
Nostradamus couldn't be more cryptic.
..or any more s**t than that train of thought. Oops-another!

But a similarity strikes me there:
Trains made the USA's west get collonized.
Trains brought the revolution to Russia.
That seems to point at the similarities of the two counterparts of the cold war!?
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stufarq
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In which case, Europe would be in between those two worlds.
Any more of that and we'll be round your front door with the quick-setting whitewash and the shaved monkey.
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eotunun
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..which would be like between a rock and a hard place.
So the quint essence of the song would be "I hear the roar of those two trains, they will collide and clash right here, where we are and smash us, so come on Lucretia, let's dance the ghost, do the dance of death. Let's party while we still live!"
To my krautisch speech centre that makes sense.
Thanks for that push in the right direction, Stuf! :notworthy:
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stufarq
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Sounds good to me, except for one thing: the Ghost Dance wasn't a dance of death (assuming, ofcourse, thaat the song refers to the Native American ritual). The name is mistranslated from the Sioux term meaning "Spirit Dance". The purpose of the ritual was to renew the earth, sweep away evil and hasten the reunion of the living and the dead. The reason it became so controversial was that it became associated with ending the white occupation of the American nations.

More here.

Oh, and let's bear in mind that the "party" you refer to involves getting down and getting undressed. As I said, it ends up about sex. As always.




Von has logged in under a pseudonym and is laughing at our feeble efforts to decode his treatise on 11th century philosophers.
Any more of that and we'll be round your front door with the quick-setting whitewash and the shaved monkey.
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eotunun
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stufarq wrote:...except for one thing:
Okay, in that case thanks for pushing me in some direction. ;D

stufarq wrote:Von has logged in under a pseudonym and is laughing at our feeble efforts to decode his treatise on 11th century philosophers.
Of course I knew. :von: He knew I knew.
And of course I knew he knew I knew. :von:
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