the rise of the british right?

[Quiff Boy]

BNP wins first London seat since 1993

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/farright ... 28,00.html

BNP wins first London seat since 1993

Matthew Tempest and agencies
Friday September 17, 2004

The openly-racist British National party last night won its first council seat in the capital since 1993, with a landslide victory in an east London borough.

In a byelection last night, the far-right party's candidate, Daniel Kelley, gained from Labour with a 470 majority at Barking and Dagenham Council's Goresbrook ward. The BNP had not fought the seat in the borough's last polls in 2002.

Ken Livingstone, the mayor of London and chairman of Unite Against Fascism, warned that the party was now a "bigger threat then ever".

He said: "The BNP is a fascist party. Wherever they are elected racist violence increases. Every concession to racism or Islamophobia by mainstream parties assists the BNP.

"These results show the BNP is now a bigger threat then ever before. Every progressive Londoner should wake up and join the movement to stop the BNP because they threaten everything which makes London such a wonderful diverse city."

The BNP already has three seats on Epping Forest district council, which it won in June this year, but this is within the home county of Essex rather than the capital.

The council seat falls within the parliamentary constituency of the current minister for children and former Islington council leader, Margaret Hodge.

The result will be of concern for race relations campaigners and will trouble the mainstream parties as this is the party's first win in the capital since 1993, when Derek Beacon briefly won a seat in the Isle of Dogs.

It comes amid earlier signs that the party's support had been hit after an in-depth TV documentary in the summer. A BBC undercover reporter infiltrated the BNP in Bradford, finding men who boasted of posting dog faeces through the letterboxes of Pakistani Britons, and using a bazooka against mosques.

Operation Black Vote's campaign manager, Ashok Viswanathan, warned today that anti-racism campaigners must "redouble their efforts".

"We've got to fight the fascists all the time - not just at general elections," he told Guardian Unlimited.

"All politics is local, and we've got to keep our eyes on the prize. It's very disappointing that the BNP has won a seat in a metropolitan area, but it shows that the BNP are organised and in our town halls and we've got to fight them."

Results in full:
Barking and Dagenham London Borough Goresbrook:
BNP 1,072, Labour 602, UK Independence party 137, Conservative 111, Lib Dems 85, Greens 59.
(May 2002, three seats: Lab 847, 842, 778, Lib Dem 520, 509)
BNP gain from Lab.

Chester-le-Street District Edmondsley and Waldridge:
Lab 628, Lib Dem 537, C 324.
(May 2003 Three seats Lab unopposed).
Lab hold.

High Peak Borough Howard Town:
Lab 270, C 167, Respect 107, Ind 103, Lib Dem 88.
(May 2003 Two seats Lab 400, 399, Ind 383, C 258, Socialist Alliance 132).
Lab hold
Swing 1% C to Lab.

High Peak Borough Simmondley:
Lib Dem 382, C 244, Lab 196, Ind 96, Respect 32.
(May 2003 Two seats Lab 564, 446, C 373, 205).
Lib Dem gain from Lab
Swing 16.1% Lab to C.

Macclesfield Borough Knutsford Nether:
C 385, Lib Dem 199, Lab 46.
(May 2003 C 458, Lib Dem 126, Lab 126).
C hold
Swing 10.6% C to Lib Dem.

North Cornwall District Poughill and Stratton:
Lib Dem 715, C 277, Ind 142, Ind 67.
(May 2003 Two seats Lib Dem 775, Ind 729, Ind 455, C 354). Lib Dem hold
Swing 6% C to Lib Dem.

South Norfolk District Easton:
C 500, Lib Dem 336, Green 40.
(May 2003 - C 380, Lib Dem 201, Lab 80. Green 51).
C hold.
Swing 3.2% C to Lib Dem.

Wealden District Uckfield Ridgewood:
Lib Dem 380, C 195, Lab 54.
(May 2003 Lib Dem 483, C 310, Lab 51).
Lib Dem hold
Swing 4.4% C to Lib Dem.

[lazarus corporation]

"We've got to fight the fascists all the time - not just at general elections"

never a truer word spoken.

[markfiend]

This is not good news.

Thorny problem: how does one "stop" the BNP in a (nominally) democratic society? Simply banning a political party (even the BNP) is not feasible IMO in a democracy. Even if it were, it would be difficult to achieve without potentially doing more damage than the BNP already do. They would gain mystique and martyr status from the inevitable arrests and imprisonments for being part of an "illegal political party" (and I shudder at typing the words).

Having said that, if the BNP ever came to power, we would be living in a society that was definitely undemocratic.

[lazarus corporation]

I think that the recent exposé on TV is the way to stop them - show them up in public for the thugs, cowards and wankers they are.

There will also be a layer of pondlife that votes for these bastards, but the more socially unacceptable they are, the less additional support they'll gain.

And of course it would help if the main parties didn't pander to the xenophobia and racism of pathetic little rags like the Daily Mail.

[markfiend]

I think that the recent exposé on TV is the way to stop them - show them up in public for the thugs, cowards and **** they are.

The thing is though, I find it hard to believe that people don't know that they are thugs, cowards, and whatever your **** was. Is it not obvious that theirs is the politics of hatred?

Guess not maybe.

And of course it would help if the main parties didn't pander to the xenophobia and racism of pathetic little rags like the Daily Mail.

Plus ça change... I believe that in the mid-to-late 1930s, the Mail was instrumental in campaigns to stop Jewish refugees from Europe settling here in Britain.

In fact, take an article from those years, and do a search-and-replace changing "Jew" to "asylum-seeker" and you'd be hard pressed to tell the stories apart.

[straylight]

And of course it would help if the main parties didn't pander to the xenophobia and racism of pathetic little rags like the Daily Mail.

Couldn't agree more. Why do they allow the agenda to be set by people just trying to fill page space on days with no real news? Print enough garbage about 'asylum seekers' ( never use the word refugee as it sounds too much like a real fellow human being) and it becomes accepted fact.

The BNP trade in the apathy of the masses & the whipped up fear of a few well chosen targets. They only ever get in on woefully low turnouts & are usually shown the door at the next vote but it casts a nasty shadow all the same.

[lazarus corporation]

from http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Daily_Mail

In the 1930s ... (the Daily) Mail were supporters of Oswald Mosley and the British Union of Fascists. He wrote an article, Hurrah for the Blackshirts, in January 1934, in which he praised Mosley for his "sound, commonsense, Conservative doctrine", and the paper published articles lamenting the number of German Jews entering Britain as refugees after the rise of Naziism.

However, after the violence of the 1934 Olympia meeting, involving the BUF, the Mail withdrew their support. Rothermere had several meetings with Adolf Hitler, and addressed him as "My Dear Führer" in letters and telegrams. He argued that the Nazi leader wanted peace, and in 1934 campaigned for the African land confiscated in the Versailles Treaty to be returned to Germany. Rothermere and the Mail supported Neville Chamberlain's policy of appeasement, particularly during the events leading up to the Munich Agreement.

However, after the Nazi invasion of Prague in 1939, the Mail suddenly changed position and urged Chamberlain to prepare for war. Rothermere died in November 1940.

[markfiend]

There you go then.

I won't change my previous post from "mid-to-late 1930s" to "early-to-mid 1930s" to try and look cleverer than I really am.

[markfiend]

BTW, your link looks suspiciously similar to the Daily Mail entry in Wikipedia.

[MrChris]

The Mail is just a poisonous rag. I find it constantly depressing that my mum reads it (and inexplicable, since she votes Labour). I think the owner must have shares in BUPA or something, since along with the demonisation of migrants its other obsession is with running down public institutions like the NHS, state schools and the welfare state. Not only does it demonise minorities, but it helps create an atmosphere of cynicism about what is really GOOD and WORKS (most of the time) in our society. This demonisation, and the constant running down of institutions that represent incredible historical achievements just makes people feel better about making selfish decisions, and living in their little high-security, 4 wheel drive bubbles. Selfish, childish, individualistic people always feel a lot better about themselves if they can convince themselves that everyone else is only interested in robbing them, taking their jobs and parking on their front lawns. This is becoming a rant, but it all makes me quite angry.

[markfiend]

Rant or not, nothing you've typed there is inaccurate IMO. Makes me pretty angry too.

[Quiff Boy]

The Mail is just a poisonous rag. I find it constantly depressing that my mum reads it (and inexplicable, since she votes Labour). I think the owner must have shares in BUPA or something, since along with the demonisation of migrants its other obsession is with running down public institutions like the NHS, state schools and the welfare state. Not only does it demonise minorities, but it helps create an atmosphere of cynicism about what is really GOOD and WORKS (most of the time) in our society. This demonisation, and the constant running down of institutions that represent incredible historical achievements just makes people feel better about making selfish decisions, and living in their little high-security, 4 wheel drive bubbles. Selfish, childish, individualistic people always feel a lot better about themselves if they can convince themselves that everyone else is only interested in robbing them, taking their jobs and parking on their front lawns. This is becoming a rant, but it all makes me quite angry.

[Loki]

RIP Magazine 1991

"I think the great lesson of the 20th century is that you have to separate the ethics from the aestetics. The Nazis did have the best uniforms, there's no denying it. The great lesson there is that you don't have to agree with what the Nazis did, but, yes, be honest about it, they did have the best uniforms. A lot of people can't come to terms with something as banal as that. They can't admit it, because somehow they feel like they're approving of what the Nazis did. That's very, very stupid, because to come to terms with the 20th century, to live in it and make the best of it - the way it is, not just sitting around holding hands, lighting candles and waiting for the next world or a better one - you have to be able to get off on those uniforms.

[Dave R]

Ich Bin Ein Auslander anyone??

Sisters Geigen Nazis.....

[Izzy HaveMercy]

Welcome to Belgium.

This is what happened here more that ten years ago with Vlaams Blok (Flemish Bloc), hereafter called VB.

The other parties then called for a 'cordon sanitaire', which is a nice word for 'not working together with a party'.

In other words, the other parties did not communicate with VB to make a coalition etc...

This escalated so much that nowadays all other parties here in Belgiums have to make cartels (a 'coalition' before the elections, dunno how you peeps call it) to beat the VB.

This last election VB became the biggest party of Belgium.

However, the joint venture of other (democratic) parties kept them from becoming the biggest. They went into opposition again.

Xenophobia and Islamophobia is deep-rooted nowadays, don't doubt THAT peeps! And a party like the VB here and your BNP just plays with that fear to lure innocent people into their nets.

The only two things that stop these bastards:

- let them in the government for a while. Now stop shouting and listen Just give them a chance. You will see, like they did in Austria, that they don't have a good plan at all. They have a negative plan but no solutions to more common problems. They will destroy themselves in the end.

- to the other parties: listen to what the BNP says and THINK about it. One of the reasons people vote for these parties is that the 'traditionals' don't look into these problems. Make immigration a big point on the agenda and start finding solutions. People ask for that, also here in Belgium.

IZ.

[markfiend]

- let them in the government for a while. Now stop shouting and listen Just give them a chance. You will see, like they did in Austria, that they don't have a good plan at all. They have a negative plan but no solutions to more common problems. They will destroy themselves in the end.

All very well, Iz, but once they're in power, do you really think they'll let themselves be voted back out? IIRC one of Hitler's first acts as German Chancellor was to suspend all democratic elections.

- to the other parties: listen to what the BNP says and THINK about it. One of the reasons people vote for these parties is that the 'traditionals' don't look into these problems. Make immigration a big point on the agenda and start finding solutions. People ask for that, also here in Belgium.

Yeah, all the major parties in the UK are becoming more "hardline" on immigration. Unfortunately, IMO this means the BNP are winning the argument without winning the elections; in an attempt to pander to the Daily-Mail-reader types, the whole system seems to me to be getting more and more intolerant and xenophobic.

[Izzy HaveMercy]

- let them in the government for a while. Now stop shouting and listen Just give them a chance. You will see, like they did in Austria, that they don't have a good plan at all. They have a negative plan but no solutions to more common problems. They will destroy themselves in the end.

All very well, Iz, but once they're in power, do you really think they'll let themselves be voted back out? IIRC one of Hitler's first acts as German Chancellor was to suspend all democratic elections.

There is something people tend to forget.

This is 2004. People here in Europe LEARNED from these mistakes. What Hitler did then is nearly impossible today because people will act far quicker. But of course, you have to be very careful with them...
Look at Austria. They even speak German there

IZ.

[christophe]

Welcome to Belgium.

- let them in the government for a while. Now stop shouting and listen Just give them a chance. You will see, like they did in Austria, that they don't have a good plan at all. They have a negative plan but no solutions to more common problems. They will destroy themselves in the end.


IZ.

For a while I would have agreed with you.
But today I’m afraid they would succeed in a lot of other stuff we wouldn’t think of at first. See how the world is changed after Bush has got elected. not only national problems but international relationships may be destroyed.
and they may be able to give very harsh penalty’s on criminals but the normal population would be harmed at this as well. We would have to give up some of our rights for the sake of it all, and this will create new enemy’s.
Butt I agree. Other party’s would better first listen to what these have to say before judging them. We are living in democratic country’s after all.

[markfiend]

This last election VB became the biggest party of Belgium.

This is 2004. People here in Europe LEARNED from these mistakes.

Are you sure?

[randdebiel²]

There is something people tend to forget.

This is 2004. People here in Europe LEARNED from these mistakes. What Hitler did then is nearly impossible today because people will act far quicker. But of course, you have to be very careful with them...
Look at Austria. They even speak German there

IZ.

nope...who would do anything about it? look how long it took before anything was done against the yugoslavia war...the UN is a bunch of nitwits....
the harm would be enormous before anything was done about it if the nazi's came back....

[andymackem]

@MF: maybe the politics of hatred is what people want?

It would be nice to think we, collectively, are better than that.

Luckily the evidence suggests that we are. Any xenophobic, islamophobic, anti-refugee group should be capable of making political inroads in the post-9/11 climate. In times like these there will always be a market for a scapegoat, and once there's a scapegoat there will also be a market for 'tough action'.

The BNP's success to date amounts to getting about half-a-dozen local councillors elected - usually for not very long. It probably leads to some not very likeable types sitting in pubs in this part of the world moaning about these 'f**king Pakis' get everything handed on a plate, and how would they like it if we went to Faisalabad (or more commonly Delhi - not many people can reliably name a Pakistani city in this debate) and carried on like that?

This is almost unbelievably far from a position where the BNP, or even their less offensive UKIP chums, could realistically hope to form a government. Without wishing to sound complacent, they can only attract nutters and a fleeting protest vote, and have done so (in the UK at least) sporadically since WWII.

Nothing that is happening today makes me think this is changing significantly.

[markfiend]

@MF: maybe the politics of hatred is what people want?

I hope not. I really really hope not. But maybe.

Without wishing to sound complacent, they can only attract nutters and a fleeting protest vote, and have done so (in the UK at least) sporadically since WWII.

Nothing that is happening today makes me think this is changing significantly.

We certainly don't have them as the biggest party in parliament, like Izzy said about the Belgian lot.

[Rivers]

Yes, it is all too easy to convince someone that the only thing stopping them from having that second 4X4 and a house in the country is that foreign looking person living in the next street.
Ideals are cheaper to buy off people these days. They don't like change and we live in changing times.

[Francis]

The Mail is just a poisonous rag. I find it constantly depressing that my mum reads it (and inexplicable, since she votes Labour).

The Daily Mail used to be a socialites paper, so I'm told.

[Rivers]

There's a void between socialite and socialist