US Election

[MrChris]

Well, it's all looking depressingly Bushy, isn't it? Even Ohio may just be Kerry clutching at straws. Unless huge irregularities turn up, and I haven't heard of any yet. Just goes to show how imprecise a science polling is - the theory has always been that a higher turnout favours the (slightly more) left-wing candidate. I guess they didn't count on the number of lazy republicans out there too. Bother and darn. And dang it.

[Loki]

Well, it's all looking depressingly Bushy, isn't it? Even Ohio may just be Kerry clutching at straws. Unless huge irregularities turn up, and I haven't heard of any yet. Just goes to show how imprecise a science polling is - the theory has always been that a higher turnout favours the (slightly more) left-wing candidate. I guess they didn't count on the number of lazy republicans out there too. Bother and darn. And dang it.

Agreed but amongst all the stuff and nonsense Robben's goal got my vote.

[MrChris]

Haha, I heard it was good but since I don't have Sky I'll have to take your word for it...

Kerry has just won Wyoming, but on current projections there's no way he'll win either Ohio, Iowa or New Mexico. If so, Bush wins by 286 to 252 in the electoral college. Which, given the 51% to 48% overall lead, would appear right now to be a fair result. Just a very unfortunate one. Bugger. Damn and dash. Crap.

[markfiend]

Current state of play (from clicky)

Bush 254 electoral college votes
Kerry 252 electoral college votes

To declare:
New Mexico (5 electoral college votes)
Bush 50.3%
Kerry 48.6%

Iowa (7 electoral college votes)
Bush 50.1%
Kerry 49.1%

Ohio (20 electoral college votes)
Bush 51.1%
Kerry 48.4%

Bastard. Looks like Bush has it. Kiss the world goodbye folks.

[MrChris]

Bums. You're right. What's more, the state of play as I understand it means that even if Kerry won Iowa and New Mexico (which he won't), it makes no difference. Whoever wins Ohio now, becomes President. I understand Kerry is counting on the results of provisional votes, but he'd need pretty much every single one to be for him to have a victory. He's done well, but not well enough unfortunately.

So what do the next four years hold, especially since Bush knows he's out of a job at the end of it anyway? More environmental vandalism, more contracts and benefits for his rich friends, more tax cuts for the very rich, and at least one more war, I reckon. So who's next?

[Quiff Boy]

iran

[Quiff Boy]

and then one of the east asian countries - korea (north or south), china, or somesuch.

probably to do with supposed nuclear threat, or dictatorial regime, or maybe even just because they don't embrace western capitalism enough...

[JansenClone]

Possibly, though not China yet. I think that's the big one coming in twenty years or so...

[MrChris]

Anyone for a ticket to Syria?

[paint it black]

ohio was always gonna be the crunch state, coz it's the industrial heartland and it's been shagged over with unemployment.

my american owners are telling me they are a huge number of overseas votes to come in yet, so all is not lost

course out of the fryingpan springs to mind

[markfiend]

The reason Bush (seems to have) won is down to the "fear-vote" IMO. The thing that gets me is why would hiram B Hayseed of Pussyhump, Nebraska think he's going to get a nuke or dirty bomb landing on his head?

Of course now that (presumably) Bush has a second term, global terrorism is going to increase because of his idiotic foreign policy.

Also there are reports that the "religious right" have got out their vote in unprecedented numbers. Loony fundamentalist Christians with only a tenuous grasp on reality (approx 50% of Americans reject evolution in favour of biblical creationism!) have elected one of their own...

Look forward to crusades 21st century style. "We're doing God's work boy!"

Fuck.

[randdebiel²]

like I've already said on other message boards:
actually I feel quite happy that bush has won because
a)let's face it: kerry wasn't any better tha dubya
b)at least, dubya will f**k up the american economy a bit more with as possible outcome (IF europe finally gets its act together :rolleyes: ) that we get two or three superpowers within 4 years (china, europe and the US), which would stabilize the world a little bit...)
c)by then, I would be living in the centre of one superpower (brussels, where I already live) and speaking the language of another one (I've started learning mandarine chinese this year), so I've got it all made

[randdebiel²]

btw, this is a call to the brits....join us, and we can become strong, this is our chance

[markfiend]

btw, this is a call to the brits....join us, and we can become strong, this is our chance

Wish we would. There's too many xenophobes in Britain for it to ever happen though.

[boudicca]

Being an american unable to vote, I have got to say anyone voting for bush needs a reality check, Of course its a coincedence a new Osama tape appears what three days before election? Last week they "lost" 58000 votes in florida. In all honesty if I was 18 I'd have left this country a while back, and headed to Germany or the UK. It's just the kick in the ribs that bush is going to get re-elected, and that the american public doesnt realize bush has the mind of a 2 year old with an only slightly larger vocabulary.

Anyhow, Like the saying that seems to be going around here,
How long does it take to ruin America
4 more years.

Looks like there's hope for future generations, if you and The Pope are anything to go by. Maybe I won't scoop my brain out with an industrial soup ladel just yet.

Mind you, I say that... I think you're all screwed now, really. China is waiting in the wings, once they shake off those bloody Communists, they'll be unstoppable. I think this is the beginning of the end for America The Ruler Of The World.

I think you'd be more than welcome here or in Deutschland (I'd go for them, personally). You could even move to France, if you feel like eating fermented dairy products, waving white flags and getting in touch with your inner primate.

[markfiend]

The last thing we want is left-leaning Americans to leave the place. Stick around and fight the bastards!

Oh, and...

Those who are willing to sacrifice essential freedoms for the sake of security deserve neither freedom nor security

...that is precisely what the idiots who voted Bush have done.

[aaron_quinton]

Being an american unable to vote, I have got to say anyone voting for bush needs a reality check, Of course its a coincedence a new Osama tape appears what three days before election? Last week they "lost" 58000 votes in florida. In all honesty if I was 18 I'd have left this country a while back, and headed to Germany or the UK. It's just the kick in the ribs that bush is going to get re-elected, and that the american public doesnt realize bush has the mind of a 2 year old with an only slightly larger vocabulary.

Anyhow, Like the saying that seems to be going around here,
How long does it take to ruin America
4 more years.

Looks like there's hope for future generations, if you and The Pope are anything to go by. Maybe I won't scoop my brain out with an industrial soup ladel just yet.

Mind you, I say that... I think you're all screwed now, really. China is waiting in the wings, once they shake off those bloody Communists, they'll be unstoppable. I think this is the beginning of the end for America The Ruler Of The World.

I think you'd be more than welcome here or in Deutschland (I'd go for them, personally). You could even move to France, if you feel like eating fermented dairy products, waving white flags and getting in touch with your inner primate.

well i am an american citizen all, i swore an oath to uphold the CONSTITUTION of the united states of america, which gives power to the president, i earnestly agree with the likes of Ben Frankilin that warned against blindly accepting the policies of government, I serve The United States Navy, i do not believe in the draft, i do not agree with our invasion of iraq, but saddam was always a puppet of the GOP, he pissed them off, so they removed him..... i am all for the balance of power in the world that a strong EU could create, i may one day move to one of my ancestor's homelands such as Scotland, Ireland or Deutschland...

i am very concerned that my govt. may unnecessarily decide to exercise it's newly formulated "national security strategy" of preventive and "pre-emptive" strikes against percieved threats, again, either syria or iran...

north korea has nuclear weapons so i don't see that happening, as does israel, which pisses bin laden off to no end...

i hope that we will stop suporting israel, but there does seem to be a high percentage that have not grown out of their born-again christian values, and many hence believe in the whole zionist "jews are the chosen people of god" rhetoric...

kerry will probally lose, though i voted for him as did my girlfriend and her brother, but for example, their church-going mother is all about bush, and will not listen to any of us, the older people here in my country are very nationalistic and "christian conservative"...

but this is here, in virginia, before being stationed here i lived in new york state for 25 years of my life, people in NY, like those who actually suffered at 9/11, did not trust Bush and voted for Kerry, but that was expected...

the electoral college does not cast those votes until December 13, and the totals are not shown to the house until January 6th...

anything can happen between now and Dec13 that might sway the electoral college away from even the popular vote, which they can do in 24 states, the other 26 states have laws requiring the electorate to vote in line with the popular vote...

we won't know about Ohio for at least 10 days because of the provisional votes and absentee ballots...

please understand that i am one of the few and far between, and that it was a close election,
but i see clearly that bush is using christian morals as strategically as constantine himself...

and osama bin laden is just sitting back and watching all of this plotting away...

at least von could release an album, "soundtrack to the mushroom cloud"


thanks for reading this

aaron

[markfiend]

i see clearly that bush is using christian morals as strategically as constantine himself...

Ooof! Good call!

It's interesting, I think, that Bush doesn't even have to explain what his "Christian morals" are*, he just has to claim to have them.

*It's hard to see how an alleged cocaine bust, drink-driving, etc. and of course his war-mongering ("Turn the other cheek" anyone?) fit with Christian morality. But then again, hypocrisy has always been Christianity's long suit.

[Rivers]

I suppose that now its all over apart from the saluting then those hicks can feel safe in the knowledge that Bush is going to stop Al Quida from bombing their wooden shacks in Swampville Kentucky!
Ok lets kill another few thousand innocents in the name of christianity, freedom and democracy.
Don't forget kiddies, Jesus was a towelhead too!
I'm not happy duh........

[andymackem]

Heard an interesting interview with an editor at Newsweek magazine. She was arguing that while the rest of the world was seeing the election as a referendum on Iraq/war on terror, the key issue across the midwest and the swing states was about the idea of the US as a Christian country.

What the "sophisticates" of Europe tend to overlook is that the US population is unlikely to take kindly to perceived liberalisation of laws on things like abortion, same-sex marriage etc. And that's where born-again Bush wins his campaigns.

So we tend to sneer at Hicksville USA for voting for a candidate who more precisely reflects their views simply because we don't share them.

@ Markfiend: why shouldn't large numbers of people believe in creationism over evolutionary theory? Both are theories and both require a certain leap of faith. Also, refering back to Genesis, a lot depends on how you understand the concept of "day" (as in "On the first day God ...."). If you accept the not unrealistic argument that day is a convenient way of translating "passage of unspecified time" there's surprisingly little difference between the sequence of events in Genesis and the notion of life evolving from plant, animal and fish towards humanity. A possible treatise might suggest the evolution actually supports the accuracy of Genesis, allowing for an area of linguistic uncertainty based around translating obscure and long-dead languages for varied sources.

@Erudite: completely off-topic, but don't really agree about the cost of the Parliament building in Edinburgh. If Scottish "nationhood" is to mean anything (and I'll spare you my views on why neither Scotland nor Wales have viable claims to independance on relevance grounds) you do need some sort of defining national symbolism. The Parliament building helps to provide that, and adds a piece of landmark architecture to your capital city. It's like those huge Victorian town-halls that went up in places like Manchester, Liverpool, Preston, Bolton etc during the boom of the C19 - it's a statement of national prestige and confidence. And it's enduring. If the Scottish parliament is to be more than a curiosity piece it can't remain indefinitely squatting in someone else's offices, just as you can't imagine the UK parliament sitting in a portakabin at a service station off the M62. At some stage a building would be needed, might as well do it from the start. Yes, it's expensive, but to focus on that is arguably to see the cost and not the value. Of course, this pre-supposes you are in favour of devolution, etc. If not you can't really agree with much of the above.

Right, anyone else I can annoy ....

[andymackem]

*It's hard to see how an alleged cocaine bust, drink-driving, etc. and of course his war-mongering ("Turn the other cheek" anyone?) fit with Christian morality. But then again, hypocrisy has always been Christianity's long suit.

Drink and drugs are wiped off the record books when he's born again (that Christian forgiveness thing does come in handy at times).

War-mongering is religiously acceptable if it's the right sort of war. Even in the new testament. Jesus didn't exactly turn the other cheek towards the money changers in the temple at Jerusalem, did he? It goes back to "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, render unto god ...." If someone strikes at me, Andymackem, I should turn the other cheek and accept it. If someone strikes at my God, I should take action to protect my faith ... whatever the risk to my personal safety.

It may not be intelligent, but Bush is very consistent with the post-God of Wrath Biblical message.

[markfiend]

@ Markfiend: why shouldn't large numbers of people believe in creationism over evolutionary theory? Both are theories and both require a certain leap of faith. Also, refering back to Genesis, a lot depends on how you understand the concept of "day" (as in "On the first day God ...."). If you accept the not unrealistic argument that day is a convenient way of translating "passage of unspecified time" there's surprisingly little difference between the sequence of events in Genesis and the notion of life evolving from plant, animal and fish towards humanity. A possible treatise might suggest the evolution actually supports the accuracy of Genesis, allowing for an area of linguistic uncertainty based around translating obscure and long-dead languages for varied sources.

you've obviously never come across websites like Answers In Gensis. The creation-nuts believe not (as you seem to be arguing) that a scientific view and the biblical view can be reconciled but that the scientific view is wrong and that the account in Genesis is literally correct. In other words, that the world was created on October 23rd 4004 BC, that evolution does not happen, that Noah's Flood is responsible for major geological features including (but not limited to) the Grand Canyon... I could go on.

Heard an interesting interview with an editor at Newsweek magazine. She was arguing that while the rest of the world was seeing the election as a referendum on Iraq/war on terror, the key issue across the midwest and the swing states was about the idea of the US as a Christian country.

Ironic that a country to which colonists moved to escape from religious dictatorships, and whose constitution was written to separate the Church from the State, is rapidly becoming a religious dictatorship in its own right, with the apparent collusion of a large part of its population.

Breaking news BTW: Kerry conceded.

[aaron_quinton]

oh well, sorry guys...




this is going to be a long four years politically...


i got nothing to say i ain't said before....

AQ

[James Blast]

President Chimp is President Chimp again

[Dark]

..And the idiot weilds the power.

For another four years, anyway.
Let's hope the UK Elections have a better result. Despite the fact that for another 3 years I'm still too bloody young to vote. -.-