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boudicca
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Arafat looks like he's on the way out. "A matter of hours" says Andrew Neil, although he's not the most reliable of souces. He's in a coma, apparently - probably brought on by recent events...

What's gonna happen now?
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Dan
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I was wondering the same thing myself while watching the news earlier.
One thing's for sure, things won't stay the same. He'll either be replaced by a warmonger or be replaced by someone more moderate than himself. Let's hope it's the latter.
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markfiend
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Power vacuum in the Middle East? Just what the world needs... :roll:
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
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CellThree
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markfiend wrote:Power vacuum in the Middle East? Just what the world needs... :roll:
Hey, everyone needs a Dyson.
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markfiend
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CellThree wrote:
markfiend wrote:Power vacuum in the Middle East? Just what the world needs... :roll:
Hey, everyone needs a Dyson.
:lol:
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
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emilystrange
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silly bugger.... :)
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boudicca
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CellThree wrote:
markfiend wrote:Power vacuum in the Middle East? Just what the world needs... :roll:
Hey, everyone needs a Dyson.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I'm sure certain sections of the rejuvenated American administration would be more than happy to step in... :roll:
He's still hanging on in there at the time of going to press - I must say I didn't see any of this coming. I mean I know he's an old man but... aren't they all?
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Francis
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Time for your gods to die.
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boudicca
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Francis wrote:Time for your gods to die.
By all accounts, Von died sometime around 1985. :wink: :P
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boudicca wrote:
Francis wrote:Time for your gods to die.
By all accounts, Von died sometime around 1985. :wink: :P
"sell the house, sell the car, sell the kids. i'm never coming back. never!!!" ;)

the von we now know and love is actually his stunt double ;D
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markfiend
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Meanwhile back at the thread...

It's being mentioned in the news that some of his aides are claiming that Arafat was poisoned. :eek:
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
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randdebiel²
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boudicca wrote: What's gonna happen now?
probably the best chance at peace, finally....
I can't believe people who actully bought the "arafat was a moderate respectable leader" s**t....he's as bade am mofo as Sharon, if not worse...
we're talking about a guy that deliberately keeps his people down (stealing around 3 BIILION euro's the last 8 years by very reliable sources, just imagine how palestine would look with those funds used at a right end...)
who let pass the biggest chance at durable peace EVER (in 2000, where he was offered everything the palestinians wanted except the right of return for ALL refugees), because officially he wanted more (but probably because he had more to gain in the present situation than in a peaceful one), who was personally responsible for a lot of israeli deaths from the sixties on to now...
but hey, the media decided he was the nice guy and the israeli the bad guys, so you HAVE to believe that don't you?
the permanent bashing of the Israeli and hailing of the palestinians is starting to p*ss me off big time...now the world is weeping for a notable terrorist and fraud...which everybody, even in france for christ sakes, acknowledge he was....
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
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andymackem
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Quiff Boy wrote:
boudicca wrote:
Francis wrote:Time for your gods to die.
By all accounts, Von died sometime around 1985. :wink: :P
"sell the house, sell the car, sell the kids. i'm never coming back. never!!!" ;)

the von we now know and love is actually his stunt double ;D
But don't most dead artists release more material than Von? :innocent:
Names are just a souvenir ...
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randdebiel² wrote:but hey, the media decided he was the nice guy and the israeli the bad guys, so you HAVE to believe that don't you?
the permanent bashing of the Israeli and hailing of the palestinians is starting to p*ss me off big time...now the world is weeping for a notable terrorist and fraud...which everybody, even in france for christ sakes, acknowledge he was....
Good point. IMO the Palestinian extremists and the Israeli extremists... well, extremists of any persuasion come to think of it... are as bad as each other.
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randdebiel²
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markfiend wrote:
randdebiel² wrote:but hey, the media decided he was the nice guy and the israeli the bad guys, so you HAVE to believe that don't you?
the permanent bashing of the Israeli and hailing of the palestinians is starting to p*ss me off big time...now the world is weeping for a notable terrorist and fraud...which everybody, even in france for christ sakes, acknowledge he was....
Good point. IMO the Palestinian extremists and the Israeli extremists... well, extremists of any persuasion come to think of it... are as bad as each other.
indeed...
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
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Francis wrote:Time for your gods to die.
He died nearly 3 weeks ago.

Mr Peel = your only god

:(
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boudicca
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randdebiel² wrote:
boudicca wrote: What's gonna happen now?
probably the best chance at peace, finally....
I can't believe people who actully bought the "arafat was a moderate respectable leader" ****....he's as bade am mofo as Sharon, if not worse...
we're talking about a guy that deliberately keeps his people down (stealing around 3 BIILION euro's the last 8 years by very reliable sources, just imagine how palestine would look with those funds used at a right end...)
who let pass the biggest chance at durable peace EVER (in 2000, where he was offered everything the palestinians wanted except the right of return for ALL refugees), because officially he wanted more (but probably because he had more to gain in the present situation than in a peaceful one), who was personally responsible for a lot of israeli deaths from the sixties on to now...
but hey, the media decided he was the nice guy and the israeli the bad guys, so you HAVE to believe that don't you?
the permanent bashing of the Israeli and hailing of the palestinians is starting to p*ss me off big time...now the world is weeping for a notable terrorist and fraud...which everybody, even in france for christ sakes, acknowledge he was....
Don't get me wrong, I don't think Arafat was whiter than white, but I do think the western European media's depiction of him is more accurate than the Israeli government's, sorry. And that's not because I believe whatever the press tells me - far from it.
The world is not weeping for him. A lot of Palestinians might be, but I think the rest of the world (America and Isreal not included of course) just realise that instability and a power vacuum is not what the Middle East needs right now. You might not think he's that moderate, but I bet you any amount of money he's nothing compared to the next guy.
Also, you say 'everyone' acknowledges he is/was a 'terrorist and fraud'. That's simply not true. Especially in Palestine, which is kind of important, but also in Europe. I don't doubt he was a much of a fraud as Blair or Bush (which is quite a big fraud!), but I think we have to be extremely careful before we start throwing around the word 'terrorist'. God knows we've been encouraged to. There's a very fine line between the actions of states such as Israel and the actions of 'terrorists' such as the Palestinians, and all those 'insurgents' in Iraq who are currently having the s**t bombed out of them. What seems to make a 'terrorist' is lack of a state to wage a 'proper' war. Even if states kill more people and do so more violently and indiscriminately, they have more right to do so than a bunch of fairly desperate people who are using the only means of waging war they have.
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Petseri
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randdebiel² wrote:
boudicca wrote: What's gonna happen now?
probably the best chance at peace, finally....
I can't believe people who actully bought the "arafat was a moderate respectable leader" ****....he's as bade am mofo as Sharon, if not worse...
we're talking about a guy that deliberately keeps his people down (stealing around 3 BIILION euro's the last 8 years by very reliable sources, just imagine how palestine would look with those funds used at a right end...)
who let pass the biggest chance at durable peace EVER (in 2000, where he was offered everything the palestinians wanted except the right of return for ALL refugees), because officially he wanted more (but probably because he had more to gain in the present situation than in a peaceful one), who was personally responsible for a lot of israeli deaths from the sixties on to now...
but hey, the media decided he was the nice guy and the israeli the bad guys, so you HAVE to believe that don't you?
the permanent bashing of the Israeli and hailing of the palestinians is starting to p*ss me off big time...now the world is weeping for a notable terrorist and fraud...which everybody, even in france for christ sakes, acknowledge he was....
I largely agree with randdebiel² and markfiend but not on one point in particular:
randdebiel² wrote:probably the best chance at peace, finally....
I am not convinced of that. To get stability and peace in the region, consessions on both side will have to be offered. Whoever moves to fill the void after Arafat, though, will not be in much of a position to offer any. The Palistinians are not likely to back someone who comes off as soft, which is how consessions would be viewed. If the wave of sentiment among Palistinians (or at least Palistinians leaders) were for co-existance with an Israeli state, and if the Israeli government had a more moderate composition, then I may have been more optimistic. However, the former condition is debatable and the latter is certainly not true.

Martin
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randdebiel²
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I largely agree too with that...BUT the reason I believe (a bit) in peace is that sharon IS already doing concssions (unilateral removing of colonies foe starters....), that now i the first in history it's POSSIBLE to have elections in Palestina AND on this point the re-election of Bush could have a positive point after all, because he won't have to "score" for the next elections....
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
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He's dead now :cry:
I think someone set my soul alight
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randdebiel²
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according to the IMF arafat stole at least 900 million Euro from the palestinian state, and max 3 BILLION....(most of the money in question being development aid coming from europe, the us and israel :shock: )
shiny, shiny, shiny boots of leather....
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randdebiel² wrote:according to the IMF arafat stole at least 900 million Euro from the palestinian state, and max 3 BILLION....(most of the money in question being development aid coming from europe, the us and israel :shock: )
Development aid! Where's that actually been spent then (our back bedroom has seen more visible results for "development money" :wink: )

Maybe those headscarves were from Prada or summat 8)
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