run off grooves

29 Nov 2004, 15:03

Gottdammerung wrote:And then there's a twin spiral 12" I have, where two tracks have been laid side to side on the same side and its pot luck which one starts off...

Oh wow I just remembered, my Granddad used to have a record like that, but it actually had six grooves; it was a horse-race commentary and each groove had a different horse win. I guess it was for betting on or something.

hallucienate · 29 Nov 2004, 15:16

markfiend wrote:Oh wow I just remembered, my Granddad used to have a record like that, but it actually had six grooves; it was a horse-race commentary and each groove had a different horse win. I guess it was for betting on or something.

I had that too! It was a whole set to teach young kids to gamble

Hojyuu-obi · 29 Nov 2004, 15:42

The Pope wrote:DAMONT and MT. are on both sides of the Walk Away/Poison Door/On the Wire 12". Also some ones and twos. And little asterisks on either side of the catalog numbers.

What is DAMONT?

Oh, and anyone know who is the one to actually scratch this stuff in the run off grooves? Just the guy who worked the vinyl pressing machine or, dare I say, someone holier...

DAMONT is the company that made the pressings (for the UK, German records were made by Record Service in Alsdorf). In case of Body & Soul, Walk Away they made the reissues (have to check NTTC).

Original Walk Away pressings have a mechanically etched ROGI and omit the DAMONT inscription ... reissues have a hand written ROGI + DAMONT.

Original Body & Soul pressings don't have the DAMONT inscription either btw. (so Dark yours is a UK reissue)

DAMONT also made the Dominion 12"s btw. (The Exchange is the company that pressed Dr. Jeep, MPO pressed the early independent 12"s, etc blah blah

)

nigel d · 29 Nov 2004, 16:23

they're comming to take me away (ha ha )
the a side and b side were the same song , but the b side started in the middle and went outwards

Gottdammerung · 29 Nov 2004, 17:56

markfiend wrote:
Gottdammerung wrote:And then there's a twin spiral 12" I have, where two tracks have been laid side to side on the same side and its pot luck which one starts off...
Oh wow I just remembered, my Granddad used to have a record like that, but it actually had six grooves; it was a horse-race commentary and each groove had a different horse win. I guess it was for betting on or something.

Yeah, I've heard of that as well... probably in a techno forum of all things...

The worst thing I've ever come across was a douple Lp, with each side filled with locked grooves... about 300 locked grooves in all...

A handy tool but a complete bastard for trying to find anything on!!

Dark · 29 Nov 2004, 19:33

Hojyuu-obi wrote:
The Pope wrote:DAMONT and MT. are on both sides of the Walk Away/Poison Door/On the Wire 12". Also some ones and twos. And little asterisks on either side of the catalog numbers.

What is DAMONT?

Oh, and anyone know who is the one to actually scratch this stuff in the run off grooves? Just the guy who worked the vinyl pressing machine or, dare I say, someone holier...
DAMONT is the company that made the pressings (for the UK, German records were made by Record Service in Alsdorf). In case of Body & Soul, Walk Away they made the reissues (have to check NTTC).

Original Walk Away pressings have a mechanically etched ROGI and omit the DAMONT inscription ... reissues have a hand written ROGI + DAMONT.

Original Body & Soul pressings don't have the DAMONT inscription either btw. (so Dark yours is a UK reissue)

DAMONT also made the Dominion 12"s btw. (The Exchange is the company that pressed Dr. Jeep, MPO pressed the early independent 12"s, etc blah blah )

Mine's a re-issue? Oh well, it'll be rare one day. Do tell, though, are MR (or whatever's left of them) still actually MAKING the singles (except DD and BE)?

30 Nov 2004, 10:46

Dark wrote:Mine's a re-issue? Oh well, it'll be rare one day. Do tell, though, are MR (or whatever's left of them) still actually MAKING the singles (except DD and BE)?

No, all the singles are long since deleted. It's all this new-fangled CD stuff these days

Fetch me my pipe and slippers!

Gottdammerung · 30 Nov 2004, 11:26

markfiend wrote:
Dark wrote:Mine's a re-issue? Oh well, it'll be rare one day. Do tell, though, are MR (or whatever's left of them) still actually MAKING the singles (except DD and BE)?
No, all the singles are long since deleted. It's all this new-fangled CD stuff these days

Fetch me my pipe and slippers!

I don't know about that... I remember about 91/92 that HMV in Glasgow still had a selection of all the indie singles...

It could be that there's a limited repress every time an album comes out...

(So yr probably right - they're deleted now!

)

30 Nov 2004, 11:33

Gottdammerung wrote:I don't know about that... I remember about 91/92 that HMV in Glasgow still had a selection of all the indie singles...

It could be that there's a limited repress every time an album comes out...

(So yr probably right - they're deleted now! )

Blimey!

According to Clicky

The Sisters' webmonkeys wrote:we can tell you that albums are still available, and singles get deleted.

It could be that they had just hoarded a load of stock from ago

Also of note from the same link:

The Sisters' webmonkeys wrote:The detailed version of this page is under construction.

*hollow laugh*

Gottdammerung · 30 Nov 2004, 16:57

markfiend wrote:
Gottdammerung wrote:I don't know about that... I remember about 91/92 that HMV in Glasgow still had a selection of all the indie singles...

It could be that there's a limited repress every time an album comes out...

(So yr probably right - they're deleted now! )
Blimey!

According to Clicky
The Sisters' webmonkeys wrote:we can tell you that albums are still available, and singles get deleted.
It could be that they had just hoarded a load of stock from ago

Also of note from the same link:
The Sisters' webmonkeys wrote:The detailed version of this page is under construction.
*hollow laugh*

OK.. my memory has come back.. it was all of the singles off the Some Girls compilation.. which makes me think that there may have been a repress to take advantage of any demand generated by that...

Esp given the completist nature of said fans and also certain peoples alleged business acumen..

30 Nov 2004, 17:09

Gottdammerung wrote:OK.. my memory has come back.. it was all of the singles off the Some Girls compilation.. which makes me think that there may have been a repress to take advantage of any demand generated by that...

Esp given the completist nature of said fans and also certain peoples alleged business acumen..

I thought they'd all been long-deleted by then. Guess I was wrong?

It's more likely there was a limited re-press than that HMV had copies kicking around on the off-chance

Especially given that they could probably have sold them for quite a bit more than the standard price of a twelve-inch, even back then.

I suppose they could have been bootlegged re-presses?

lazarus corporation · 30 Nov 2004, 17:09

Gottdammerung wrote:
markfiend wrote:
Gottdammerung wrote:I don't know about that... I remember about 91/92 that HMV in Glasgow still had a selection of all the indie singles...

It could be that there's a limited repress every time an album comes out...

(So yr probably right - they're deleted now! )
Blimey!

According to Clicky
The Sisters' webmonkeys wrote:we can tell you that albums are still available, and singles get deleted.
It could be that they had just hoarded a load of stock from ago

Also of note from the same link:
The Sisters' webmonkeys wrote:The detailed version of this page is under construction.
*hollow laugh*

OK.. my memory has come back.. it was all of the singles off the Some Girls compilation.. which makes me think that there may have been a repress to take advantage of any demand generated by that...

Esp given the completist nature of said fans and also certain peoples alleged business acumen..

from what I remember from an interview I read about 10 years ago, Von sold all the rights to the early singles to East West and bought himself a car. EastWest put their newly acquired tracks onto a compilation CD - SGWBM - but probably (it's supposition from here on) didn't bother re-issuing them as vinyl 7 or 12 inch.

Merciful Release's remaining stock of these singles got sold to the record shops (so there were copies available for a bit longer), but since EastWest now had the rights to the singles, Merciful Release couldn't press any more copies, and EastWest couldn't be bothered to press new copies because they probably wouldn't make the profits EastWest wanted.

30 Nov 2004, 17:10

Aha! That makes sense laz.

Dark · 30 Nov 2004, 19:33

lazarus corporation wrote:
Gottdammerung wrote:
markfiend wrote: Blimey!

According to Clicky It could be that they had just hoarded a load of stock from ago

Also of note from the same link: *hollow laugh*

OK.. my memory has come back.. it was all of the singles off the Some Girls compilation.. which makes me think that there may have been a repress to take advantage of any demand generated by that...

Esp given the completist nature of said fans and also certain peoples alleged business acumen..
from what I remember from an interview I read about 10 years ago, Von sold all the rights to the early singles to East West and bought himself a car. EastWest put their newly acquired tracks onto a compilation CD - SGWBM - but probably (it's supposition from here on) didn't bother re-issuing them as vinyl 7 or 12 inch.

Merciful Release's remaining stock of these singles got sold to the record shops (so there were copies available for a bit longer), but since EastWest now had the rights to the singles, Merciful Release couldn't press any more copies, and EastWest couldn't be bothered to press new copies because they probably wouldn't make the profits EastWest wanted.

I can spot a couple of flaws here. Body And Soul was the single/EP released first after all the SGWBM ones, so even if they did reprint the singles from it, there would be no point in reissuing Body And Soul.
Also, you honestly think there'd be any reissues of DD or BE? Maybe Anaconda, though. (Though to be honest, I'd probably not buy it. I liked Anaconda, but I can't ever listen to Phantom, as it bores me within a minute. Sadly.)

lazarus corporation · 30 Nov 2004, 19:48

Dark wrote:
lazarus corporation wrote:
Gottdammerung wrote:

OK.. my memory has come back.. it was all of the singles off the Some Girls compilation.. which makes me think that there may have been a repress to take advantage of any demand generated by that...

Esp given the completist nature of said fans and also certain peoples alleged business acumen..
from what I remember from an interview I read about 10 years ago, Von sold all the rights to the early singles to East West and bought himself a car. EastWest put their newly acquired tracks onto a compilation CD - SGWBM - but probably (it's supposition from here on) didn't bother re-issuing them as vinyl 7 or 12 inch.

Merciful Release's remaining stock of these singles got sold to the record shops (so there were copies available for a bit longer), but since EastWest now had the rights to the singles, Merciful Release couldn't press any more copies, and EastWest couldn't be bothered to press new copies because they probably wouldn't make the profits EastWest wanted.
I can spot a couple of flaws here. Body And Soul was the single/EP released first after all the SGWBM ones, so even if they did reprint the singles from it, there would be no point in reissuing Body And Soul.
Also, you honestly think there'd be any reissues of DD or BE? Maybe Anaconda, though. (Though to be honest, I'd probably not buy it. I liked Anaconda, but I can't ever listen to Phantom, as it bores me within a minute. Sadly.)

Body & Soul was originally released on WEA, not independently by Merciful Release, so it wasn't included in the deal. WEA/EastWest could already re-issue/re-press Body & Soul.

As to DD & BE - I agree that since these are ultra-rare you'd think they'd sell well on a re-release for a small independent label, however if you think of the quantity of product that WEA/EW would want to shift in order to make what they'd consider to be a reasonable profit, then it's probably not worthwhile.

All the other singles/EPs - Alice, Anaconda, Reptile House, Temple of Love - were all available well into the early 90s (from existing Merciful Release stock pressed prior to the sale of the tracks to WEA) which would indicate that there's not a large enough market to justify rereleasing them (most fans already had them, and they weren't shifting in shops that stocked them)

But like I said, this is all guesswork on my part

CellThree · 30 Nov 2004, 20:51

And you can pick up all the 12"s from Ebay for tuppence a bushel.

No point in re-issuing them.

But I'd probably buy them anyway.

Hojyuu-obi · 30 Nov 2004, 20:53

The early independent releases were re-released in 1992, apart from the first two.

The Reptile House EP, T.O.L 12â€�, Alice 12â€� (1992) re-releases are easily recognizable by the â€˜Made In Hollandâ€™ imprint on the spine of the sleeve, the back carrying a bar code + the label having a Warner matrix. Have a look at Yanickâ€™s homepage.

Anaconda, T.O.L & Alice 7â€� arenâ€™t that easily spotted apart from the back sleeves not having the typical cut-out (I picked up an Anaconda 7â€� back then (â€˜93 or â€˜94) which was too new & too crisp to have been lying in a shop for 10+ years â€¦

Gottdammerung · 01 Dec 2004, 09:43

Hojyuu-obi wrote:The early independent releases were re-released in 1992, apart from the first two.

The Reptile House EP, T.O.L 12â€�, Alice 12â€� (1992) re-releases are easily recognizable by the â€˜Made In Hollandâ€™ imprint on the spine of the sleeve, the back carrying a bar code + the label having a Warner matrix. Have a look at Yanickâ€™s homepage.

Anaconda, T.O.L & Alice 7â€� arenâ€™t that easily spotted apart from the back sleeves not having the typical cut-out (I picked up an Anaconda 7â€� back then (â€˜93 or â€˜94) which was too new & too crisp to have been lying in a shop for 10+ years â€¦

So! I wasn't hallucinating then!

TheBoyNextDoor · 01 Dec 2004, 11:23

Anyone know how big quantity we are talking about for re-releases and originals?

Gottdammerung · 01 Dec 2004, 12:20

Hm... as far as I can recall, Temple of Love was actually the second best selling indie 12" of its time, second only to New Order's Blue Monday... I don't know if that's still the case but it could be given the demise of the 12" single in the late 1980s...