It's an absolute disgrace

Candover Premiere · 29 Mar 2005, 14:45

Well it looks like bananaphilia.

I've been picking up petals.

ruffers · 29 Mar 2005, 14:48

elamanamou wrote:
When I've visited Dubai I've always covered myself up especially during Ramadan.... As the saying goes "When in Rome"

When in the UK...

Dark · 29 Mar 2005, 14:59

Quiff Boy wrote:also, the middle east has radically different cultural ideas (be sure to cover up those bodies now, ladies!).

you cant really compare the effectiveness of judicial systems due to the differing social norms and values.

I believe Siouxsie's b-side The Whole Price Of Blood reflects her opinions on middle-eastern "honour killings".

For those without the Downside Up collection, these are the remarks on that song:

SIOUXSIE: Whilst working on Hyaena in 1984, what would become the subject matter for "Swimming Horses" was my outrage at a news report on so-called "honour killings" being allowed and encouraged by some so-called "religious men" in the world of Islam. "The Whole Price Of Blood" is me still angry and sad for those voiceless women.

Also, it's noted that Bob Smith played sitar on that song. (I only just got the fact that the remark on the Dear Doktor page was about Fat Bob)

29 Mar 2005, 15:05

anyone for female castration?

andymackem · 29 Mar 2005, 15:11

Jihad logo rages against Islamic honour killings.

No mixed messages there, then.

Quiffy: personally no. I'm not in favour of capital punishment either. But it's curious that a (apparent) majority view can be consistently surpressed with so little debate.

Don't you mean female circumcision, rather than female castration, though? Not that I'm endorsing that, either.

29 Mar 2005, 15:17

andymackem wrote:Quiffy: personally no. I'm not in favour of capital punishment either. But it's curious that a (apparent) majority view can be consistently surpressed with so little debate.

to me its about considered opinion rather than knee-jerk reaction.

we can all get caught up in "heat of the moment" stuff. you cant let that kind of spurr-of-the-moment emotion dictate the entire legal system.

andymackem wrote:Don't you mean female circumcision, rather than female castration, though? Not that I'm endorsing that, either.

either or...

both seem to be socially acceptible acts in the parts the middle east that some people seem to be suggesting know how to dispense justice.

boudicca · 29 Mar 2005, 15:17

Moving rapidly away from talk of female castration...

... I'm with Mrs RJ. This sort of thing reminds me why I call myself a "hang 'em and flog 'em Liberal".

Francis · 29 Mar 2005, 15:48

Mrs RicheyJames wrote:the research that proves these people are mental

Is paedophilia a mental illness? I thought it was more of a sexual preference.

ruffers · 29 Mar 2005, 15:57

boudicca wrote:Moving rapidly away from talk of female castration...

... I'm with Mrs RJ. This sort of thing reminds me why I call myself a "hang 'em and flog 'em Liberal".

What, hang 'em low and flog 'em gently?

Mrs RicheyJames · 29 Mar 2005, 16:04

Francis wrote:
Mrs RicheyJames wrote:the research that proves these people are mental
Is paedophilia a mental illness? I thought it was more of a sexual preference.

Yes it's a sexual preference. For some mentally retarded people. No-one who prefers to act like Michael Jackson is sane.

29 Mar 2005, 16:15

Mrs RicheyJames wrote:No-one who prefers to act like Michael Jackson is sane.

I would have said that's true even without the kiddie-fiddling.

29 Mar 2005, 16:17

what about those who choose to LOOK like michael jackson?

http://www.eurielec.etsit.upm.es/~zenze ... sters1.jpg

*cough*

elamanamou · 29 Mar 2005, 16:54

ruffers wrote:
elamanamou wrote:
When I've visited Dubai I've always covered myself up especially during Ramadan.... As the saying goes "When in Rome"
When in the UK...

Shame some of 'em don't abide with our rules, instead we're dictacted too!

I think you know what I mean without going into details?

Changing the subject abit.. The likes of Myra Hindley should've been hanged years ago.She for one lived in luxury at Highpoint.The country paid for her luxury and in the end what do they all do? Yes your right take the p***

Money wasted on these wasters could go towards some worthy cause.Eg. local hospice, cats home, etc, etc.

Mrs RicheyJames · 29 Mar 2005, 17:00

Quiff Boy wrote:what about those who choose to LOOK like michael jackson?

http://www.eurielec.etsit.upm.es/~zenze ... sters1.jpg

*cough*

ruffers · 29 Mar 2005, 17:32

elamanamou wrote:
ruffers wrote:
elamanamou wrote:
When I've visited Dubai I've always covered myself up especially during Ramadan.... As the saying goes "When in Rome"
When in the UK...
Shame some of 'em don't abide with our rules, instead we're dictacted too!

I think you know what I mean without going into details?

Changing the subject abit.. The likes of Myra Hindley should've been hanged years ago.She for one lived in luxury at Highpoint.The country paid for her luxury and in the end what do they all do? Yes your right take the p***

Money wasted on these wasters could go towards some worthy cause.Eg. local hospice, cats home, etc, etc.

Well we clearly have a fundamental disagreement on the case of capital punishment, and reading between the lines (without going into details..) on a few other things as well.

Not the end of the world, although I shall from now on take the opportunity to shout/post "Hang them" whenever crime is mentioned on the site

elamanamou · 29 Mar 2005, 18:03

ruffers wrote:
elamanamou wrote:
ruffers wrote: When in the UK...
Shame some of 'em don't abide with our rules, instead we're dictacted too!

I think you know what I mean without going into details?

Changing the subject abit.. The likes of Myra Hindley should've been hanged years ago.She for one lived in luxury at Highpoint.The country paid for her luxury and in the end what do they all do? Yes your right take the p***

Money wasted on these wasters could go towards some worthy cause.Eg. local hospice, cats home, etc, etc.
Well we clearly have a fundamental disagreement on the case of capital punishment, and reading between the lines (without going into details..) on a few other things as well.

Not the end of the world, although I shall from now on take the opportunity to shout/post "Hang them" whenever crime is mentioned on the site

A least you have an opinion Ruffers

lazarus corporation · 29 Mar 2005, 18:24

The problem with capital punishment obviously lies with the many false convictions that have happened over the years. I also have a distinct problem with the state having the power of life or death over a citizen. Would you trust Tony Blair (or Michael Howard or Charles Kennedy) with the life of your loved ones, or do you think they'd all bow to political expediency if it would serve their political ends?

The most interesting problem that comes from capital punishment is what to do when someone is falsely convicted and executed.

Let's say that Joe Blogs is convicted and then executed by a court. It is later found out that Joe Blogs is innocent. Under the logic of capital punishment, Joe Blogs' killer should now be tried and executed (surely it's one rule for everyone?). Who should be executed for Joe Blogs' killing?

My suggestion would be: The Judge, all members of the Jury who voted for a guilty verdict, the Prosecution barristers and solicitors, the witnesses for the prosecution, and all of the MPs who voted to legalise the death penalty*. Since they all conspired to execute Joe Blogs, they should all be executed if he is found innocent, because, under the logic of capital punishment, if you kill someone then you get killed.

Only if the above suggestion is implemented can we be assured that courts will take the appropriate time and care to ensure that the people they convict are indeed really guilty.

* A late addition: the entire editorial boards of the Sun, the Daily Mail and one other randomly-selected pro-death-penalty tabloid rag.

paint it black · 29 Mar 2005, 18:40

The problem with capital punishment obviously lies with .. the hours.

wanted capital punisher part-time.

may suit retired gentleman or school leaver

training provided

and imagine, the 'i'm off work with stress' call for that job

Loki · 29 Mar 2005, 20:32

Well if we skip all this namby-pamby, humane type execution methods, and go back to burning at the stake, we're sorted. Though to make it more family orientated and a more Bar-B-Que summer social type event, let's get the ad-men working on the stake/steak angle.

Have Sisters Zippo; will travel. Where do I apply?

Marsden Fields · 29 Mar 2005, 20:45

paint it black wrote:The problem with capital punishment obviously lies with .. the hours.

wanted capital punisher part-time.

may suit retired gentleman or school leaver

training provided

and imagine, the 'i'm off work with stress' call for that job

I believe that in nineteenth-century England smaller towns would offer criminals convicted of capital crimes a stay of execution, provided they acted as the town's hangman for the remainder of their lives (there always seemed to be a shortage of non-criminal candidates for the position, on account of the social stigma, I assume). If this tradition were revived, I doubt the hours would be a problem.

_emma_ · 29 Mar 2005, 21:29

Francis wrote:
Mrs RicheyJames wrote:the research that proves these people are mental
Is paedophilia a mental illness? I thought it was more of a sexual preference.

Hm. That got me thinking...
Sure sexual harassment done to a child is a bad thing to do and deservers severe punishment, or thorough healing, as you prefer.
It's obvious if we catch red-handed (or red-whatever) an adult, say 40 or 30 or 25 years old, having some form of sexual intercourse with a toddler. Or a child 5 or 7 years old. Or a child 9 or 11 years old. Or a girl 12 years old... 13? 14?...
Don't you people think some of such cases are damn difficult to judge?
Anybody enjoyed reading Lolita? Anybody could imagine what Humbert Humbert felt?

Or do I deserve severe punishment or thorough healing for thinking about it?

Rivers · 29 Mar 2005, 22:37

I often see prisons described as 'like holiday camps'. Firstly, when I used to go to Pontins I was never gang raped in the showers. Nobody tried to throw boiling water with suger into my face in the food hall.
If prison was like a holiday camp I would make sure I was caught robbing banks because it sure beats working for a living.
Does this help?

elamanamou · 30 Mar 2005, 01:03

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle ... 355029.stm

No messing in Iran.Proven guilty=Death penalty.

We're just too soft.Common sense tells us that if a person is a 'softie' we just get trodden on all over.

mik · 30 Mar 2005, 08:33

Quiff Boy wrote:its just that i have an inherant distrust in the ability of the british legal system to actually find the right man for any given crime

I'll remember that should you ever turn up in my courtroom

I get sworn in as a magistrate on April 18th - you have been warned....

nodubmanshouts · 30 Mar 2005, 08:59

Let's say that Joe Blogs is convicted and then executed by a court. It is later found out that Joe Blogs is innocent. Under the logic of capital punishment, Joe Blogs' killer should now be tried and executed (surely it's one rule for everyone?). Who should be executed for Joe Blogs' killing?

Um, no. The death penalty would apply to "illegal killing" not "legal killing". The execution would be a legal killing, because it went through the due process of law.

Personally, I'm all for the death penalty in principle, but the execution of innocents worries me too much...