crisis of conscience

Red Orc · 01 Jun 2005, 11:36

Hmm, moral dilemmas.

I think you're right not to go for it.

The argument that 'kids in religious schools need teaching too' doesn't really hold up. Most religious schools (as Mrs RicheyJames pointed out) have much better support than non-religious schools. So it's the kids in the unsupported schools that need the most help, surely?

But you'd better find somewhere quick. They're all gonna be religious soon. f**king religious arses. I hates 'em! (OK, if they can do what they want in the privavcy of their own homes, but they should be locked up for pushing it on kids. Much like heroin. Opium of the masses, anyone?)

nick the stripper · 01 Jun 2005, 11:38

Red Orc wrote: They're all gonna be religious soon. f**king religious arses. I hates 'em! (OK, if they can do what they want in the privavcy of their own homes, but they should be locked up for pushing it on kids. Much like heroin. Opium of the masses, anyone?)

You had the balls to say what I've been thinking.

01 Jun 2005, 12:17

Well, the USA is rapidly becoming a theocracy; I'd hate to see the UK follow.

Black Alice · 01 Jun 2005, 21:50

I belong to a humanist group and we had a speaker from the British Humanist Society the other week to talk about education provision and faith schools. She is on all the committees going which discuss what sort of religious teaching should go on............the most disturbing thing is not faith schools but City Academies - these people build their own schools, remain in authority over them for the rest of their days and can teach whatever the f**k they like - the one in Gateshead teaches creationism. They tell the outside world that this is only within R.E lessons but the word is that it pervades all the subjects including science.

On a happier note, my husband - who has a geography and art degree - gets to teach religious studies at his school (which is a special school for kids with behavioural problems), mostly because no-one else wants to teach it - and he uses it as an opportunity to get the kids to talk about moral and ethical issues as well as trying to show them that "those tossers with turbans" (their words not mine) are actually just people with a different worldview. He also (subversively) manages to get them to "realise" that this "talking to someone who isn't there" (ie praying) is a bit weird.

He's not trying to brainwash them - merely to get them to work out for themselves whether they actually believe in a god rather than it simply being something they grow up being told is the way to live.

Loki · 01 Jun 2005, 23:22

Mrs RicheyJames wrote:My first job after I qualified was a private hosptail run by monks. If I can get past that crap then I'm sure you can. My attitude to it was those people still needed looking after. Same as your situation really, those kids still need teaching. You've got to ask yourself this...You wanna go for a city school, where ok, no religion is involved, but I'm sure it would be a horrible place to work. Or a nice little religious school, where, ok. there are certain aspects of it that you don't agree with, but I can't imagine that everything you'll be required to teach you'd agree with. I could be wrong here, but wouldn't they be better schools in themselves? Better support, better behaved children etc?

@ Diane -

@ Jo - Ness said. YOU work the system. The system never works you.

Go girl.

nick the stripper · 02 Jun 2005, 09:10

Black Alice wrote: On a happier note, my husband - who has a geography and art degree - gets to teach religious studies at his school (which is a special school for kids with behavioural problems), mostly because no-one else wants to teach it - and he uses it as an opportunity to get the kids to talk about moral and ethical issues as well as trying to show them that "those tossers with turbans" (their words not mine) are actually just people with a different worldview. He also (subversively) manages to get them to "realise" that this "talking to someone who isn't there" (ie praying) is a bit weird.

He's not trying to brainwash them - merely to get them to work out for themselves whether they actually believe in a god rather than it simply being something they grow up being told is the way to live.

I was raised Christian and I've come to realise that religion isn't for me and that I find most of it weird and wrong - much to my mothers dismay.

My mum doesn't really understand and keeps telling me I made a big mistake and that I should tell God I'm sorry

I don't mind mum being christian but I wish she wouldn't try and force her views on me.

I think what your husband is doing is a good thing.

Mrs RicheyJames · 02 Jun 2005, 09:34

Loki wrote:
Mrs RicheyJames wrote:My first job after I qualified was a private hosptail run by monks. If I can get past that crap then I'm sure you can. My attitude to it was those people still needed looking after. Same as your situation really, those kids still need teaching. You've got to ask yourself this...You wanna go for a city school, where ok, no religion is involved, but I'm sure it would be a horrible place to work. Or a nice little religious school, where, ok. there are certain aspects of it that you don't agree with, but I can't imagine that everything you'll be required to teach you'd agree with. I could be wrong here, but wouldn't they be better schools in themselves? Better support, better behaved children etc?
@ Diane -

@ Jo - Ness said. YOU work the system. The system never works you.

Go girl.

DianA

Black Biscuit · 02 Jun 2005, 11:44

My mentor taght me (by osmosis) that the keywords in the thinking person's vocabulary are the words "sh-t" and "a--hole". The more you think about it, the more you realize it's right and true. Sort of like everything is sh-- and everyone is an a--hole. How many people are ready for this sort of truth? Does it make sense to you?

02 Jun 2005, 12:40

True. Very true

Francis · 03 Jun 2005, 00:37

Black Biscuit wrote:My mentor taght me (by osmosis) that the keywords in the thinking person's vocabulary are the words "sh-t" and "a--hole". The more you think about it, the more you realize it's right and true. Sort of like everything is sh-- and everyone is an a--hole. How many people are ready for this sort of truth? Does it make sense to you?

I sh!t out of my arsehole. As do you, I suspect.

Francis · 03 Jun 2005, 00:42

markfiend wrote:My objection would be that I'd be a hypocrite to stand up there and promise to bring up a child in a religion that I disagree with quite fundamentally.

Yep. Though it's more of a refusal to believe than a fundamental disagreement. Coupled with an unwillingness to disrespect the faithful. And an inability to get up for church on a Sunday morning.

emilystrange · 03 Jun 2005, 09:00

when i got to church last sunday for this do, my uncle asked me if the smell of sulphur was anything to do with me.. cheeky bugger.

I am a godparent in two religions, but i'm ignoring the religious side.

emilystrange · 03 Jun 2005, 14:50

born again, it seems..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005250380,00.html

aims · 03 Jun 2005, 14:56

"Holy Ghost ... Christ is clearly visible in ultrasound scan"

Someone woke up in opposites land today...

No, wait, it's just the Sun.

03 Jun 2005, 14:58

emilystrange wrote:born again, it seems..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005250380,00.html

Blimey. Some semi-random areas of light and shade that almost look like a bearded face? What a shock!

*Edit to add: I'm sure you're aware, but just in case: my ire is directed at The Currant Bun, not you ems

Johnny M · 03 Jun 2005, 15:00

Mrs RicheyJames wrote:
Loki wrote:
Mrs RicheyJames wrote:My first job after I qualified was a private hosptail run by monks. If I can get past that crap then I'm sure you can. My attitude to it was those people still needed looking after. Same as your situation really, those kids still need teaching. You've got to ask yourself this...You wanna go for a city school, where ok, no religion is involved, but I'm sure it would be a horrible place to work. Or a nice little religious school, where, ok. there are certain aspects of it that you don't agree with, but I can't imagine that everything you'll be required to teach you'd agree with. I could be wrong here, but wouldn't they be better schools in themselves? Better support, better behaved children etc?
@ Diane -

@ Jo - Ness said. YOU work the system. The system never works you.

Go girl.
DianA

50/50 chance to get your name correct and that Loki tw*t still got it wrong. Good riddance to him.

emilystrange · 03 Jun 2005, 15:01

i'm sure that if he'd put an 'e' on the end of 'Jo' he'd have been dead anyway

boudicca · 03 Jun 2005, 15:07

emilystrange wrote:born again, it seems..

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005250380,00.html

I liked that one in India where they "saw Him" on a naan bread or something.

It really was quite a likeness.

Johnny M · 03 Jun 2005, 15:08

emilystrange wrote:i'm sure that if he'd put an 'e' on the end of 'Jo' he'd have been dead anyway

Yeh, or even an 'anne' ...

emilystrange · 03 Jun 2005, 15:10

that's deathwish tendency, there

eastmidswhizzkid · 04 Jun 2005, 04:50

i went to a C.ofE.primary school for no better reason than the racism of my parents-there was a perfectly good non-religious school less than twenty yards from our front door where apparently(and i quote)"the white kids dont learn anything 'cause the teachers spend all their time on the asians who cant speak english"

(when i had to attend the same secondary school as these kids surprise,surprise:no difference between us at all.however i digress...)

all going to a church based school really did to me was introduce me to religion in a very watered-down way:i dont think believing in god is a requirement of the C.ofE.however i know an awful lot of people who were fcuked-up by other religious schools....to me there's no real difference if the intent (indoctrination) is the same.
our eldest has attended schools both catholic and c.of.e(as travellers you often get "Hobson's"as to which local schools will have you) and even when these are not exclusively for that faith they still teach under the assumption that god's existence and all that goes with it are accepted facts in your childs head.

Dark · 04 Jun 2005, 10:00

Johnny M wrote:
emilystrange wrote:i'm sure that if he'd put an 'e' on the end of 'Jo' he'd have been dead anyway
Yeh, or even an 'anne' ...

"..lene"

06 Jun 2005, 10:58

eastmidswhizzkid wrote:all going to a church based school really did to me was introduce me to religion in a very watered-down way

I read an article once that suggested that the Church of England is the reason that you don't get anywhere near as many fundamentalist Christians here as you do in the US.

It works a bit like a vaccination: you're exposed to a really weak strain when you're young, so the more virulent strains can't infect you when you're older

06 Jun 2005, 11:01

markfiend wrote:
eastmidswhizzkid wrote:all going to a church based school really did to me was introduce me to religion in a very watered-down way
I read an article once that suggested that the Church of England is the reason that you don't get anywhere near as many fundamentalist Christians here as you do in the US.

It works a bit like a vaccination: you're exposed to a really weak strain when you're young, so the more virulent strains can't infect you when you're older

when i'm asked what my religion is i usually say "C of E... so 'none' really"

emilystrange · 30 Jun 2005, 16:47

as there are no longer any jobs to apply for, or any chance now of getting an interview for the applications in, its all very academic.