*That* rain yesterday

[andymackem]

Actually, I think the evidence does suggest that a small part of global warming is from natural meterological cycles, but the vast majority of the effect is caused by CO2 from burning fossil fuels.

And your solution to this ... ?

I don't see you ditching your car and cutting down on use of electricity, as evidenced by your earlier post about rat-running around LS6. Though, in fairness, you may have a special rain-powered computer which is working overtime at the moment to enable you to keep up your post-count.

We're dependent on fossil fuels; the developing world wants to be able to consume them with the same enthusiasm we do to enable them to live the wealthy industrialised lifestyle that we are refusing to give up. There's far more of them than there are of us, so it's not going to get better.

But this ignores the way in which our society has changed over the centuries. Modern-day Europe would be unrecognisable for someone who grew up before the industrial revolution. They'd probably see it as an apocalyptic vision, dark Satanic mills and all that. We're desperate to save it from being flooded. That's a massive shift in expectations of how our world should look, and climate change will prompt another one.

Once it's partly flooded we'll adapt to that as well. The Daily Mail will moan about Dutch refugees coming over and abusing our system with their liberal attitudes and sudden passion for mountaineering; Kilroy's descendents will rejoice that France has got further away at last; Austria will get a coastline and become a naval power for the first time in its history; Canvey Island will disappear, amid massed indifference.

And life, by and large, will go on. Mostly on top of hills.

[emilystrange]

i once heard a self confessed 'Green' objecting to a wind farm because it would spoil her view. *sigh*

[lazarus corporation]

Once it's partly flooded we'll adapt to that as well. The Daily Mail will moan about Dutch refugees coming over and abusing our system with their liberal attitudes and sudden passion for mountaineering; Kilroy's descendents will rejoice that France has got further away at last; Austria will get a coastline and become a naval power for the first time in its history; Canvey Island will disappear, amid massed indifference.

...and George Bush's ancestors will still be claiming that there's no such thing as global warming - and counting the dollars from their oil business.

It's quite sad how it's become trendy to claim that there's no such thing as global warming (a trend I've noticed on various fora and sites, although admittedly mainly US-based ones).

[andymackem]

...and George Bush's ancestors will still be claiming that there's no such thing as global warming - and counting the dollars from their oil business.

Hadn't imagined the dead were going to walk the earth, but I suppose it could happen

[Obviousman]

Can we have a conspiracy theory from somewhere as well please?

Here in Antwerp there's a great conspiracy prophet walking around, I collect everything he makes

Let me see: He started out his last (well I think this one is his last one, don't keep them in the correct order ) With Bush + Blair = Big Brother and history versus hysteria... Then it's about 9-11: The Berlin Wall fell, Reichkristalnight was on a 9-11 as well as the end of the first world war, American presidential elections always take place on the last tuesday before 9-11 (to honour Napoleon), err, and last thing to happen was the Dutch filmmaker Theo Van Gogh who got killed on a 9-11, Pim Fortuyn got killed exactly 911 days before Theo... *skips two pages* After that he starts about Live Aid (the old one) and the sing song for the Tsunami they made, which all comes together in the plan for Ratsinger and then he starts about some connection to the Tsunami I don't really get... Really, terribly funny, sadly most things only work in Dutch

Now, to get to the point: I must agree with RicheyJames, the facts he points out are all very true, but as markfiend says: the extremes are getting more frequent...
However, I think in some way it is a natural thing to happen. Nature (which includes the weather) goes up and down, species disappear and new species come to exist, before and even now still and climate is a thing that constantly changes as well.... But we just cannot deny this is all going faster than before thanks to our beloved cars, industry and whatever more... Even Mr. Stupidity (Dubya) admits it exists, so you can easily multiply the effect he admits that exists a couple of times to get the real situation

[Obviousman]

Oh, and there's this other great theory (not really conspiracy, rather scientific )

There's this guy who says cars, industry protect us from global warming, the clouds wrapped around the earth thanks to this all fends most of the sun's heat off

[MadameButterfly]

Actually, I think the evidence does suggest that a small part of global warming is from natural meterological cycles, but the vast majority of the effect is caused by CO2 from burning fossil fuels.

And your solution to this ... ?

I don't see you ditching your car and cutting down on use of electricity, as evidenced by your earlier post about rat-running around LS6. Though, in fairness, you may have a special rain-powered computer which is working overtime at the moment to enable you to keep up your post-count.

We're dependent on fossil fuels; the developing world wants to be able to consume them with the same enthusiasm we do to enable them to live the wealthy industrialised lifestyle that we are refusing to give up. There's far more of them than there are of us, so it's not going to get better.

But this ignores the way in which our society has changed over the centuries. Modern-day Europe would be unrecognisable for someone who grew up before the industrial revolution. They'd probably see it as an apocalyptic vision, dark Satanic mills and all that. We're desperate to save it from being flooded. That's a massive shift in expectations of how our world should look, and climate change will prompt another one.

Once it's partly flooded we'll adapt to that as well. The Daily Mail will moan about Dutch refugees coming over and abusing our system with their liberal attitudes and sudden passion for mountaineering; Kilroy's descendents will rejoice that France has got further away at last; Austria will get a coastline and become a naval power for the first time in its history; Canvey Island will disappear, amid massed indifference.

And life, by and large, will go on. Mostly on top of hills.

Have to agree with you on most of the above........although when I speak to my friends in life, no-one is scared about this, just making plans for whoever remains....even if on the mountain tops....maybe we will be a different *form* but it will be fine....have hope in humankind...we are still using our brains although how much of the brain do we use?

@ markfiend-I use my bicycle....do not own my own car

[andymackem]

Extremes aren't getting more frequent. Apart from the logical cul-de-sac implied by that statement (if it's frequent, it can't be extreme. not linguistically speaking), think back to the great M11 snowstorm of 2003.

You'll recall that was the day Essex was lightly dappled with about half an inch of snow and the tailbacks on the M11 stretched from London to Cambridge with motorists stranded overnight.

Reports at the time suggested it was the first major snowfall in SE England for a decade. It was certainly the first snow I'd seen lying in the region since I moved here in March 2000.

As a child, albeit growing up in NE England, a whole 250 miles away, I remember annual snowfalls. One year (1984?) there was much interest in the numbing progress of a train from Newcastle to Plymouth with arrived 18 hours late due to bad weather. In primary school we'd reckon on a few days off each year while it snowed; by the time I sat my GCSEs in 1992 this wasn't happening at all.

Effectively snowfall was removed from our climate, making it demonstrably less extreme. The side effect was we lost any ability to run roads in snowy conditions - something which anyone who has driven through the north Pennines finds laughable!

[MadameButterfly]

Remember a eight year draught in South Africa and my first snow saw as a child (1980?) a few cm but in Johannesburg? Over the years been away the draught is over....moved over to Australia.....and Table Mountain in Cape Town does get a layer of snow on the tops in winter but nothing compared to the snow here in Europe!!!

Also agree with Obviousman the 9-11 quote. Indeed what you stated about two well known men in NL is what got my blood-boiling here in NL....started looking very scary for the dutch way of thinking and yet another reason why religion, and politics should not have any influence with the law. But wait....December roll on.....networking already

[lazarus corporation]

...and George Bush's ancestors will still be claiming that there's no such thing as global warming - and counting the dollars from their oil business.

Hadn't imagined the dead were going to walk the earth, but I suppose it could happen

I'm glad someone spotted my deliberate mistake

[markfiend]

I use my bicycle....do not own my own car

Good for you. Riding a bicycle into Leeds is tantamount to suicide.

Extremes aren't getting more frequent. Apart from the logical cul-de-sac implied by that statement (if it's frequent, it can't be extreme. not linguistically speaking), think back to the great M11 snowstorm of 2003.

I must admit that my thinking on this issue seems, with consideration, to be somewhat muddled.

Re: snow: I do remember one year when I was at junior school (1979? 1980?) when it snowed on May 1st.

[RicheyJames]

I use my bicycle....do not own my own car

Good for you. Riding a bicycle into Leeds is tantamount to suicide.

true. but the public transport's excellent. something i only really appreciated after my exile.

[MadameButterfly]

Public transport is good here in Holland too....only the attitude of some of the people behind the wheel .....something like hating their *jobs*...I just bring a smile ....or irritate and bite with words just to make their day longer

Still cycling in the rain causes me to wear the make-up thing you see and then the *crazy* comments just follow. And when it snows here...walk although that is not even safe.

[Norman Hunter]

...All I was saying was how much it rained in Leeds yesterday

[markfiend]

true. but the public transport's excellent. something i only really appreciated after my exile.

You think so? If Leeds' public transport is excellent, I'd dread seeing somewhere where it's poor. Compared to the mainland, the UK has woeful public transport.

[MadameButterfly]

...looking out at the skies...well it is heading this way...thick cloud-cover.

[markfiend]

...All I was saying was how much it rained in Leeds yesterday

It was bad wasn't it? I blame global warming...

[paint it black]

While RJ is technically correct that extremes of weather have always been with us, it does seem (and admittedly I don't really have evidence of this) that the extremes are getting more frequent.

i don't really have any evidence for this, but it does seem that the level of stupidity on this forum is on the increase.

only coz you're posting more

[Norman Hunter]

If Leeds' public transport is excellent, I'd dread seeing somewhere where it's poor. Compared to the mainland, the UK has woeful public transport.

Even if we all had hoverbikes that had special anti-rain deflection shields, it still rained a bit. Maybe not as much as elsewhere in the UK/world/galaxy, maybe it is/isn't down to global warming and maybe the transport system could do with an overhaul - all I know is my undercrackers got a right soaking on the line yesterday teatime and my little girl got wet carrying her in from the car.

The End (?)

[ruffers]

It didn't rain here.

I blame global warming.

[Obviousman]

Also agree with Obviousman the 9-11 quote. Indeed what you stated about two well known men in NL is what got my blood-boiling here in NL....started looking very scary for the dutch way of thinking and yet another reason why religion, and politics should not have any influence with the law. But wait....December roll on.....networking already

Well, I do not necessarily agree with that quote, actually, I only think it's highly amusing... I think you can find such things in almost every fact, as long as you try to look for them long enough, but that's another discussion (if you like the guy's theories: Dutch Clicky - if you click on 'een hondertal teksten' you might find some English ones still)

But indeed I agree: Where Holland is moving to scares me very much too

About the weather: Just heard the mean values for August here in Belgium were all almost exactly the normal mean values... Only thing was that we had but 4 days above 25 degrees, and the summer seems to have been pretty normal too...

[andymackem]

true. but the public transport's excellent. something i only really appreciated after my exile.

You think so? If Leeds' public transport is excellent, I'd dread seeing somewhere where it's poor. Compared to the mainland, the UK has woeful public transport.

To what extent is that based around our obsession with working absurd distances from our homes?

To illustrate: huge swathes of SE England are occupied by people who are willing to travel 50 miles into work each day, and 50 miles home again at night. This is madness.

A documentary after the collapse of Railtrack spoke to 'regular commuters' about the problems they faced. One travelled daily from Doncaster to London, the other from Liverpool to Manchester.

Perhaps if people were less willing to tolerate absurd journeys on a daily basis the strain on our transport infrastructure would be reduced accordingly.

It's like the age-old complaints that the London underground is worse than Paris, Moscow etc. Forget that there's more track and more stations in London than in either of the others; forget that London's was built in the C19 and has all the problems associated with Victorian buildings, plus the added inconvenience of being under the ground; forget that Moscow's was produced to order by a command economy able and willing to bulldoze across the city at will. Let's just slate our system because we can.

[MadameButterfly]

Yes indeed Obviousman ....the past few days have been very HOT...global warming effect, just like the seasons seem to take their time before we can enjoy and although a *normal average summer* was said to be a very wet one...with rain!!

Do not worry....Holland may get scared but the dutch will not allow the b*llsh!t to continue...because of Theo and Pim (for those who are confused, Theo made a movie about a muslim-woman...hard facts and was killed because of it...like a dog ) and Pim (a bald politician who once proclaimed Holland was too full....shot down....like a dog). And yet it made me sad and angry...

[RicheyJames]

true. but the public transport's excellent. something i only really appreciated after my exile.

You think so? If Leeds' public transport is excellent, I'd dread seeing somewhere where it's poor. Compared to the mainland, the UK has woeful public transport.

try leicester.

seriously, the wypta do a fantastic job. if i can live in apperley bridge and work in central(ish) leeds without a car it really shouldn't be difficult for someone living in burley.

[RicheyJames]

Let's just slate our system because we can.

hear hear! i get so fed up with people running this country down just for the hell of it. and in particular people who never even use public transport moaning about how awful it is.

and i'm sick of hearing how everything is better "on the mainland". yeah, and the grass is always greener.