German elections

Karst · 19 Sep 2005, 12:32

What a disaster. I'm nearly starting to favour the UK system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4259612.stm

http://www.tagesschau.de/

canon docre · 19 Sep 2005, 12:58

Karst wrote:What a disaster. I'm nearly starting to favour the UK system.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4259612.stm

http://www.tagesschau.de/

Too true, Karst.

Another four years wasted.

Bartek · 19 Sep 2005, 13:08

"great coalition" cdu and spd ?

next or another election?
it's not looks good for europe

Karst · 19 Sep 2005, 13:20

It is quite strange. I was watching some discussions last night on ARD (they dragged Genscher up) and it seems like a nightmare. I'd say the Linkspartei will have some role to play even is both parties sat they will have nothing to do with them. Annoying is that the constitution for the EU is now completely stalled. Seems to be endemic in Europe to nobody has any idea who to vote for anymore.

canon docre · 19 Sep 2005, 13:37

the Linkspartei will not play any role in the future. They consists merely out of pathetic left-overs from the socialistic past and some p*ssed-off unemployed that just vote to say "no" out of their frustration. The two guys at the top have both been already in positions where they could have actually "governed". Both resigned very quickly when confronted with reality.

This party is just a bubble of two conceited wannabees.

andymackem · 19 Sep 2005, 13:53

Karst wrote:Seems to be endemic in Europe to nobody has any idea who to vote for anymore.

Can't claim any expertise on Germany .... I know alarmingly little about German politics so this is a general comment.

Isn't this result (and the percentage result in the UK election, and the narrowing of the philosophical gap between Labour and Conservative in the UK) indicative of democracy actually doing what it does best?

In a democracy you can't form a government without winning elections; what people want is fairly narrowly defined. Therefore winning elections means appealing to a broad range of people, all of whom have fairly narrow desires of you.

There's an old joke about whoever you vote for the government will always get in, and ultimately that's going to be true. Most people aren't led by a burning political ideal; they prefer a quiet life with a government which by and large leaves them alone.

It's a recipe for political stagnation because no-one dares to be radical in case they frighten away votes. Bizarrely this might come closer than any other political system to delivering the Marxist vision of a world where government simply does away with itself.

Discuss, if you can be bothered ....

Karst · 19 Sep 2005, 14:18

I know die Linke is a strange amalgamation and that it will be difficult to keep it together. But I'd say Oskar Lafontaine would like to get back into power in some way where he isn't part of the SPD structure. Think it is the only way Schroeder will regain power because the FDP will not budge - unless the left wing of the party gets more influence.

timsinister · 19 Sep 2005, 14:19

Uncle Gerhardt, or a German Margaret Thatcher? Which is wanted more? My money's on the current incumbent.

Mark, would you agree that there is no system of government that man cannot corrupt, pervert, and abuse? You don't strike me as the Machiavellian type...

canon docre · 19 Sep 2005, 14:46

Karst wrote:I know die Linke is a strange amalgamation and that it will be difficult to keep it together. But I'd say Oskar Lafontaine would like to get back into power in some way where he isn't part of the SPD structure. Think it is the only way Schroeder will regain power because the FDP will not budge - unless the left wing of the party gets more influence.

None of the democratic paties will ever form a coalition with the Linkspartei. One half of it (PDS) is the legitime successor of the SED (the one and only party of the DDR). And because they never tergiversated from their past, they're considered anti-democratic.
Their only future lies in the opposition.
Of course, Lafontaine wants to go back into power, but not out of an urge to change the country to the better, but solely to annoy his arch-enemy SchrÃ¶der. And SchrÃ¶der? He doesnt even take his name in his mouth.

Karst · 19 Sep 2005, 15:28

This is some interesting analysis.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4252382.stm

In an ideal world the SPD would hook up with the Greens and FDP but I still think that is very unlikely. Schroeder brings too much luggage for the FDP. It would be intersting though - but it would leave a large amount of instability. Other then that Merkel can try and set up a government that has latent support of the SPD. As I said, I really think the Linkspartei will play a crucial role in the negociations with whatever postion they will take.

canon docre wrote: None of the democratic paties will ever form a coalition with the Linkspartei. One half of it (PDS) is the legitime successor of the SED (the one and only party of the DDR). And because they never tergiversated from their past, they're considered anti-democratic.
Their only future lies in the opposition.
Of course, Lafontaine wants to go back into power, but not out of an urge to change the country to the better, but solely to annoy his arch-enemy SchrÃ¶der. And SchrÃ¶der? He doesnt even take his name in his mouth.