torture is okay?

[RicheyJames]

In a poll, 38 per cent of Americans said they supported torture to interrogate terror suspects. The Ipsos Mori poll, carried out in nine countries, found 30 per cent of Britons backed its use. Germany and France had similar results to Britain.

[markfiend]

Wonderful.

I wonder how many of those would support the use of torture if it was them being tortured?

[Gottdammerung]

Torture is only ok between consenting adults....

[Ozpat]

Interrogation okay and there are different styles.

But what is torture?

Is not allowing someone to sleep for a day torturing?
Is one glas of water and a small piece of bread a day torturing?
No toiletpaper; is that torturing?

So what do these people mean when they say they agree?

[nick the stripper]

Firstly, I agree with Gottdammerung.

Secondly, I take they think torture is continuous infliction of physical pain until the tortured gives the information the torturer wants, when they're agreeing with it. That's the first thing that always pops into my head when I hear the word torture. Of course, there are worse forms of torture, such as sexual torture.

[boudicca]

Interrogation okay and there are different styles.

But what is torture?

Is not allowing someone to sleep for a day torturing?
Is one glas of water and a small piece of bread a day torturing?
No toiletpaper; is that torturing?

So what do these people mean when they say they agree?

It's like Room 101 - something different for every individual.
Stick me in a room with 50 Cent playing on a loop and I'll tell you anything you want to hear.

[Ozpat]

Interrogation okay and there are different styles.

But what is torture?

Is not allowing someone to sleep for a day torturing?
Is one glas of water and a small piece of bread a day torturing?
No toiletpaper; is that torturing?

So what do these people mean when they say they agree?

It's like Room 101 - something different for every individual.
Stick me in a room with 50 Cent playing on a loop and I'll tell you anything you want to hear.

That's my point.

[Zuma]

And who is allowing it?
Allegedly of course..

According to all these reports in the media about plane flights across Europe that are not mentioned..
Allegedly again..

[boudicca]

And who is allowing it?
Allegedly of course..

According to all these reports in the media about plane flights across Europe that are not mentioned..
Allegedly again..

Yeah, I heard something about a Boeing 747 (belonging to the CIA) at Glasgow Airport which had been doing the rounds in the middle east, dropping off terrorist suspects. Nice .

I'm sure the UN, Amnesty and various other organisations will have definitions of torture - to me, all the things Ozpat described would qualify. OK, going without sleep for a day is hardly hell on earth (if it was, maybe I could haul Quiff up in front of a UN tribunal for organising Bloktober ) but the principle of treating a suspect like this is to break him using discomfort or pain as a means of extracting your confession.

[Ozpat]

And who is allowing it?
Allegedly of course..

According to all these reports in the media about plane flights across Europe that are not mentioned..
Allegedly again..

Yeah, I heard something about a Boeing 747 (belonging to the CIA) at Glasgow Airport which had been doing the rounds in the middle east, dropping off terrorist suspects. Nice :| .

I'm sure the UN, Amnesty and various other organisations will have definitions of torture - to me, all the things Ozpat described would qualify. OK, going without sleep for a day is hardly hell on earth (if it was, maybe I could haul Quiff up in front of a UN tribunal for organising Bloktober :twisted: :lol: :innocent:) but the principle of treating a suspect like this is to break him using discomfort or pain as a means of extracting your confession.

Same!!!!

[canon docre]

There was an interesting and much debated case in Germany whether it should be allowed to vocally threat with torture in order to get hold of informations concerning the hiding-place of a kidnapped boy whose life might have been in danger. See here for more details on the Daschner case.

[boudicca]

There was an interesting and much debated case in Germany whether it should be allowed to vocally threat with torture in order to get hold of informations concerning the hiding-place of a kidnapped boy whose life might have been in danger. See here for more details on the Daschner case.

I'd say no because, putting myself in that position, if someone was threatening me with torture ('specially if they were to detail the lovely things they'd do to me) I'd be inclined to tell them what they wanted to hear to avoid that happening.

Also, you can't really threaten with torture in a country that doesn't actually do it. In order for your threats to be credible you'd have to be prepared to carry them out.

[MrChris]

Psychological torture is particularly hard to define. For instance, if x drugged y, and took photos of them in a mock-up of a compromising position with a member of the same sex, then released them and said - act as our spy or we'll release the pictures - is that torture? It's a known practice in some middle-eastern countries with strong sexual taboos...

[Norman Hunter]

Torture? I've actually bought my girlfriend the new Darkness CD for Xmas - is that self-induced?

[a.r.kane]

Psychological torture is particularly hard to define. For instance, if x drugged y, and took photos of them in a mock-up of a compromising position with a member of the same sex, then released them and said - act as our spy or we'll release the pictures - is that torture? It's a known practice in some middle-eastern countries with strong sexual taboos...

surely that would be torture only to a homophobe.

[MrChris]

I don't think you'd have to be homophobic to strongly object to this. Even in frequently homophobic societies like Palestine (where the policy has been used successfully by the Israelis on occasion) whether the victim is homophobic or not is usually NOT the issue - the reason it's effective is because of apprehension about other peoples' reactions, to 'homosexuality' but also to adultery...

[canon docre]

Psychological torture is particularly hard to define. For instance, if x drugged y, and took photos of them in a mock-up of a compromising position with a member of the same sex, then released them and said - act as our spy or we'll release the pictures - is that torture? It's a known practice in some middle-eastern countries with strong sexual taboos...

surely that would be torture only to a homophobe.

I wouldnt like to get drugged and be put in a compromising situation with members of the opposite sex either.

[Céleste]

i dont think torture can be justified in any way!
its simply degrading and inhuman.
and i think its a shame that the CIA has been kidnapping innocent people since 2001, bringing them to Afghanistan and god knows where.
america wants to "spread democracy", the motherland of democracy, using torture to fulfil their abject aims. thats a huge discrepancy, isnt it?

[markfiend]

the CIA has been kidnapping innocent people since 2001,

They've been doing a lot worse for a lot longer.

[boudicca]

Psychological torture is particularly hard to define. For instance, if x drugged y, and took photos of them in a mock-up of a compromising position with a member of the same sex, then released them and said - act as our spy or we'll release the pictures - is that torture? It's a known practice in some middle-eastern countries with strong sexual taboos...

surely that would be torture only to a homophobe.

I wouldnt like to get drugged and be put in a compromising situation with members of the opposite sex either.

Exactly. Homophobic or not, there's a million reasons why you might not exactly dig being forced into such a degrading situation. It's a state-sponsored sexual assault, really.

I think it is the same principle as physical torture, which is fundamentally blackmail. Tell us what we want to hear (whether it's true or not) or this will happen to you...

[Mrs. Snowey]

In a poll, 38 per cent of Americans said they supported torture to interrogate terror suspects. The Ipsos Mori poll, carried out in nine countries, found 30 per cent of Britons backed its use. Germany and France had similar results to Britain.

The only good thing about that statement is that around 70 per cent didn't support the use of torture

[andymackem]

Of course torture is OK. There's a war on, remember. We have to do something, regardless of whether it's actually effective or ethical.

The stunning lack of Heartland Realpolitik strikes again .....

[MrChris]

Pulls out the pin, throws and runs away...

[theraven1982]

I'm not surprised by the amount of Americans who agree with torture... America has it's own rules.
It reminds me of a paper by William Blum:

“No matter how paranoid you are, what the government is actually doing is worse than you imagine.”

“Don’t believe anything until it’s been officially
denied." (Gulf War syndrome, anyone?)

It's true with Elections (Bulgaria, Chile), the War on Drugs, War on Terror , Human Rights.
Of course, they DO care about Human Rights... it's just flexible, not a fundamental 'law' or goal.
Read the paper by William Blum, "U.S. Foreign Policy -- A Study in Hypocrisy".

But i'm scared at the fact that so many 'non american' countries agree on torture.

[markfiend]

Of course torture is OK. There's a war on, remember. We have to do something, regardless of whether it's actually effective or ethical.

The stunning lack of Heartland Realpolitik strikes again .....

I can never quite work out whether you're a cynic or a realist.

Come to think of it, is there a difference?