Does exactly what it says on the tin. Some of the nonsense contained herein may be very loosely related to The Sisters of Mercy, but I wouldn't bet your PayPal account on it. In keeping with the internet's general theme nothing written here should be taken as Gospel: over three quarters of it is utter gibberish, and most of the forum's denizens haven't spoken to another human being face-to-face for decades. Don't worry your pretty little heads about it. Above all else, remember this: You don't have to stay forever. I will understand.
Dark wrote:And no, there isn't a Gangwar forum. It may be true that many people here are uninterested in what he does, but those of us who are like to have the opportunity to find out about what happens.
And if using somebody else's forum to promote yourself is a bad thing, would you also be unhappy about Phono Paul, Rhombus, The Sisters Of Murphy, and all the other bands that HL members are in posting their news here? I didn't think so.
Well, Rhombus are currently promoting themselves by playing live (Hull, I believe) tonight. I don't think there's a problem with anyone 'promoting themselves'. It's nasty ratty little intra-band arguments that belong elsewhere.
Maybe you could START a Gangwar forum? Lots of free software available to get you started...
Heartland isn't a Gangwar forum, but it's also not a sex, drugs, politics, philosophy, TV or technology forum, either. Regardless of this, these topics come up in general chat because there are events and situations, current or otherwise, which cause members to show an interest and put the topic up for discussion. When these discussions get too heated, it's dealt with maturely. No-one is told to take the discussion to a Nietzche / BBC / Amphetamine / Computing / Communism forum. Just because the topic of argument between Messrs Ray and Cardwell is one close to home, does not mean that any further friendly discussion of it was any less relevant than it always has been. A lot of people here aren't particularly fond of the Mish, but they're a part of Sisters history and some people want to hear about them. Same with Mr Ray. To suggest that he and Scardwell should take their disagreement to off-site media is common sense. To suggest that we just shut up about Gangwar, apparently because of this incident, is ridiculous.
I can imagine what an amusing earthquake would start here if Mrs Patricia Morrison joined the forum.
Just a thought.
And no, I don't listen to The Damned either.
Motz wrote:To suggest that he and Scardwell should take their disagreement to off-site media is common sense. To suggest that we just shut up about Gangwar, apparently because of this incident, is ridiculous.
I think that sums it up pretty nicely.
And to be fair, Simon's departure from Gangwar (in my opinion) hasn't spilled over onto this forum anywhere near as much as it could have. There are perhaps a couple of posts that some people may regret making in retrospect, but there's been nothing like the name-calling and back-biting that might have happened.
In general the whole situation has been handled with restraint on all sides. Virtually no interference has been necessary from the moderation staff.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
markfiend wrote:In general the whole situation has been handled with restraint on all sides. Virtually no interference has been necessary from the moderation staff.
very much so. and i for one would like to thank everyone for the way they've "behaved" (that wasnt meant to sound patronising, i just couldnt think of the right word for it)
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
To my mind, this appeared to be a rather unpleasant situation (in as much as members leaving or being fired from bands is never going to be particularly pleasant), but one which does not warrant Mr. Cardwell's departure from a forum on which he is one of the longest-standing members.
It seems to have arisen from his conviction that James Ray is a junkie, which I, others who know him, and most importantly HE, maintains he is not. But that point aside, even if Simon wishes to keep this conviction, quite frankly can he not just keep it off HL (i.e with his avatar and sig)?
And we can continue using this forum as it's intended. ALL of us?
To those who are treating either Mr. Ray as responsible for Simon's departure, I ask you how was he (and how were those who know him) supposed to react to this serious accusation? Herion use is f**king serious, you do not accuse someone of it and expect them not to react. No member of Gangwar, nor myself, dragged this matter on to the forum. It was brought here. This chain of events began with Simon's reaction to being told his services were no longer required in the band, which was to put a deliberately provocative avatar and sig up. Yet he is being viewed as some sort of victim by some, having been hounded out by the man he made a personal attack on (note that it wasn't reciprocated).
To Simon, I ask, what do you base your continued belief that James Ray is a junkie ON? I am getting the impression from a few others that, they also believe this to be the case, based on hearsay it would appear, but if there's more to it by all means enlighten us. You may well say open forum is not the place for that and I would agree, but open forum is also not the place for veiled (and not so veiled) references to something dark or unsavoury. These hints must be backed up with substance, otherwise it's no more than cheap gossip and storytelling. Which is childish and cowardly, and I would like to think everyone on HL is above that. Do not drop hints, make insinuations and keep an air of "something I know but I can't tell you here".
"The truth will come out one day", "Be careful"... These are meaningless statements on their own, and simply serve to create a shadowy illusion without basis in reality. Say what you mean or say nothing at all.
Better than any of that (this has gone on long enough after all), a simple admission that you made a false assumption would be a lot bigger of you. We've all done that.
As I see it, now is time to draw a line under the matter, for Simon to stay and for no more aspersions to be cast, whatever he thinks of the man he "once" had so much respect for.
Last edited by boudicca on 07 Jul 2006, 16:50, edited 4 times in total.
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
Its a pity everything went tits up on this, as a fellow musician I can apreciate what a good guitar player Simon is and its a pity as he could have done great things with gangwar, as I said on his blog, from all the incarnaions of Gangwar that I have seen he stands head and sholders above the other guitarists that the band has had in the past.
I dont know the full story, as hes been respectfull in not posting it, its just a shame that I saw to the potential for a really great band a few months ago, Just hope that Ian Bill and Mr Ray carry on, as Im still a gangwar fan after all
canon docre wrote:exactement. this forum is not about Gangwar and the personal quarrels of their members - current or past - and hangers-on.
As I am the only person on here with any (quote unquote) "inside" knowledge of these events who is not actually a member of Gangwar, I presume I am the hanger-on...
...I was shocked and disappointed when I read this, Jess.
I have always considered you a friend on here, and I was looking forward to seeing you at Winter In July. I thought this was mutual.
Very cheap shot don't you think. Knowing someone in a band makes you a hanger on? Fair enough, call me what you want. I was simply sticking up for a very good man.
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
I excuse myself wholeheartly for this wrong use of vocabulary. I wasnt aware that "hangers on" has a negative connotation. I presumed it meant just "friends of the band" or literally "people who hang out with the band" I cant see anything negative with that.
And I didnt mean you personally, more generally the people around the opponents. Eloumou-something would be another.
Calm down dear Bou, it was never my intention to affront you.
Put their heads on f*cking pikes in front of the venue for all I care.
canon docre wrote:I excuse myself wholeheartly for this wrong use of vocabulary. I wasnt aware that "hangers on" has a negative connotation. I presumed it meant just "friends of the band" or literally "people who hang out with the band" I cant see anything negative with that.
And I didnt mean you personally, more generally the people around the opponents. Eloumou-something would be another.
Calm down dear Bou, it was never my intention to affront you.
Oh good, that is a relief! I was really surprised and rather there!
It does have a bit of a negative connotation, but don't worry, no harm done Jess .
There's a man with a mullet going mad with a mallet in Millets
there! 
.
I need a girlfriend . . . and some custard.
