The Collection anyone?

[JJMC]

After a massive bout of insomnia, I decided to finally create a MP3 'backup' of my collection. The project kinda spiralled out of control and I ended up doing loads more than I thought I ever would, PDFs of lyrics, supertagging the MP3's to show the sleeve info when a track is played, scans of sleeves, capturing vids etc...

I wondered if anyone else would be interested in my efforts instead of having to do it all themselves and I've put a testing-the-water auction on eBay. I've been pleasantly surprised by the response and many thanks to everyone for your comments.

If anyones at all interested please see http://www.jjmc.freeserve.co.uk for more info.

Cheers.

[Dan]

I'm doing a similar thing with my live recordings. Almost all the official stuff is available on cd anyway so I'm not that worried about that. With the tapes of gigs, most tapes require dehissing, editing out clicks, etc... I'm only up to July'83 so far.

[pikkrong]

WELCOME JJMC

[pikkrong]

...and check your private messages, Sir

[JJMC]

Thanks for the welcome.

After damaging a couple of vinyls during a house move, and after having replaced them at great expense, I became almost paranoid about playing them any more incase I somehow damaged them.

Bear in mind that this was during the dark time prior to the net and well before eBay, the time where the only way of replacing limited editions was by trawling the record fairs at Leeds or York and you can appreciate my concern / fear.

Once the ability to 'backup' my prized collection became easier, I promised myself 'one day'. Eventually I got round to it and I thought maybe others would be interested in not having to go through what I had already, hence the testing-the-water auction. I've had loads of interest, more so from abroad. Its good to know there's such a good fan base. For me it was Dok Avalanche - once that Oberheim kicked I was hooked!

I'm planning to do the same with my collection of bootlegs from the early days. Maybe some sort of collaboration is in order. I've got all the equipment, it's just time I'm short of.

Fond memories of the Black October Tour of '84 (especially afterwards) and what became the 'bye-bye' tour of '85. When Eldritch shouts "Can't hear you" you know its going to be good!

Cheers.

[Andy TG]

@ JJMC

Welcome to My Heartland - hope you enjoy yourself !

[JJMC]

@Pikkrong & @Andy

Many thanks for the welcomes.

Me thinks the forum needs pushing up the search engines, it's currently on the third page of Google when doing a search and by far, this is the single most informative site I've ever had the pleasure of perusing.

Special thanks @Andy for the info

[hallucienate]

Me thinks the forum needs pushing up the search engines

Heartland could do with some meta tag keywords...


ummm, JJMC, your selling copies of official releases on ebay???

[JJMC]

Backups for people who have the official releases but perhaps don't have the means or the time to do their own.

The collection was never intended as a means to enhance a collection that never was (!?! Eh)

Isn't Some Boys Wander much the same?

[Quiff Boy]

Me thinks the forum needs pushing up the search engines

Heartland could do with some meta tag keywords...

http://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=26195

[Dan]

Surely if you want backups of the official releases all you have to buy are "Some girls wander by mistake" and you have 90% of the older singles, then all the albums are freely available on cd anyway.

That's well dodgy selling them on ebay.

[JJMC]

So long as the buyer has all the originals, its quite legit. If they don't, that's not what it was aimed at and I certainly don't advertise it as such.

Is the selling of bootlegs a legal practice?

[hallucienate]

Surely if you want backups of the official releases all you have to buy are "Some girls wander by mistake" and you have 90% of the older singles, then all the albums are freely available on cd anyway.

That's well dodgy selling them on ebay.

my point exactly.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/sea ... 62-0330233

[JJMC]

So me obtaining (illegal) bootlegs, copying them to either CD-R audio or MP3, flooding eBay with them would be alright - check out the auctions, piles of bootleg unoffical releases - but a legit service is deemed dodgy.

[hallucienate]

So me obtaining (illegal) bootlegs, copying them to either CD-R audio or MP3, flooding eBay with them would be alright - check out the auctions, piles of bootleg unoffical releases - but a legit service is deemed dodgy.

selling copies of both legit and bootleg stuff is against Ebay's AUP:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/item_allowed.html

I think you fit into the "downloadable media" and "bootleg media" catagory.

I think the only reason you see bootlegs on ebay is that they aren't policed very strongly.

I think you'll find that selling copies of copyrighted items that you have no claim over is also illegal.

How do you intend proving that the buyers have all the original you are sending them?

Do you personally stand to make a profit once the auctioned items sell for more than the media you are copying it onto?

Wouldn't you prefer people bought the original CDs instead of your copies, in the hopes that the band might see some of the cash?

I might be coming off a bit strong here, but I think there is a very thick line between copying stuff for a friend for interests sake or backing up your personal collection and selling other peoples work for profit.

[Dan]

So me obtaining (illegal) bootlegs, copying them to either CD-R audio or MP3, flooding eBay with them would be alright

No, that's be equally as wrong. I don't know if there's that sorta stuff on eBay also, I haven't looked for a while.

Moving onto "official" bootlegs (like the Palazzograssi releases, etc...) as opposed to some dodgy cd-r we're moving onto dodgier ground, as some fans seem to treasure this type of bootleg as much as the official releases (Personally I couldn't give a toss as long I have a recording of the gig). Is selling this type of record on eBay ok? Probably, if you can get away with it.

[paint it black]

I bought a copy; I'll try to explain why

Firstly, the backing up idea might not work, but what about can't be arsed to keep dragging out me records all the time?

Secondly, in my case I do own everything already, but I'd like to think, albeit a bit naively, for those who don't, they might upon actually hearing the tracks for the first time decide to go out and buy the official versions - inclusive of artwork, pride of ownership etc that you only get from the originals.

It seems really daft to me to argue the bootleg / official thing and talk about ebay in the same breath. Surely ebay survives on the number of hits it gets? Despite the official stance (that is your link above) they take, it is in their best interests to let illegal stuff onto ebay. That's what sells and what makes them money.

I don't really see how someone being prepared to pay £20 for a 7" single that I bought for £3.00 contributes to the bands profits?

More criminal surely, is the fact that someone is prepared to pay £40 or whatever it is at present for a copy of a 2003 gig?




btw - welcome JJMC

hmmm, North East, prolific poster, that avatar........I wonder

[JJMC]

Many thanks for your comments and I'll take them on board, we seem to have sparked a healthy debate at least and the forum's getting plently of viewing!

If I may reply to a couple of your points raised

I think you fit into the "downloadable media" and "bootleg media" catagory.

It may fit , but personally I'm not.

I think the only reason you see bootlegs on ebay is that they aren't policed very strongly.

Very true, mainly as the rules apply to the American audience rather than U.K.

How do you intend proving that the buyers have all the original you are sending them?

I can't so it's purely trust (yeh I know, I know)

Do you personally stand to make a profit once the auctioned items sell for more than the media you are copying it onto?

Very little considering the amount of time I spent on doing it. But isn't that what eBay's for?

Wouldn't you prefer people bought the original CDs instead of your copies, in the hopes that the band might see some of the cash?

Oh course, yes - but how can you get original copies of deleted items, vinyl etc... without using auction sites. When anyone buys the originals through eBay or similar none of the profit goes back to the band as was or is now.

I might be coming off a bit strong here, but I think there is a very thick line between copying stuff for a friend for interests sake or backing up your personal collection and selling other peoples work for profit.

So what if that friend copies it for that friend etc....

If you own any illegal bootlegs, who made the original profit on that? Unless they were official bootlegs, it certainly wasn't the band.

First & Last & Never Again[/quote]

[hallucienate]

I hate taking the high horse route, it seems like I am though

My main point is that most of the Sisters back catalogue is still available CD and still being pressed.

If you own FALAA, Floodland, Vision Thing, SGWBM and ASCOOB on CD you will only be missing a handful of singles (See SBWBM for the tracks missing).

If I may reply to a couple of your points raised

I think the only reason you see bootlegs on ebay is that they aren't policed very strongly.

Very true, mainly as the rules apply to the American audience rather than U.K.

Sorry, the UK link: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/community/png-bootleg.html

If you own any illegal bootlegs, who made the original profit on that? Unless they were official bootlegs, it certainly wasn't the band.

yeah, but my point is with bootlegs the band never saw any of the money, because the band never released the items. You can still buy 5 albums on CD at normal CD prices at any good CD store and that covers 5/6 of the bands official output.

[JJMC]

Last word honest.

If you've done a copy of anything copywritten for a friend, even passing on a recording from TV, and the recipient has bought you a pint, given you a ciggy etc... or has returned that favour, you've received payment in kind.

The idea of making the collection available to all was certainly with legit fans, like myself, in mind who already have the stuff - if it's been done for a mate, was it a taster until you badger them into buying the real thing?

Cheers again.