Why does it matter whether or not this teacher wears a veil?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Stor ... 67,00.html
Why does it matter?
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itnAklipse
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It's about destroying yet another culture in the name of western freedom.
we've got beer and we've got fuel
Or, if we go for the non-conspiratorial approach and actually report the facts as they are, it might possibly be because they've had complaints that the children's inability to see her mouth means that they can't copy her lip movements which is a tad problematic when you're learning English as a Foreign Language at primary age.
The most surprising thing here though is that she's working in a CoE school by choice. Odd
The most surprising thing here though is that she's working in a CoE school by choice. Odd
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smiscandlon
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анархия
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canon docre
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As Salman Rushdie pointed out and many others, the veil serves the purpose of keeping women away from society - to tie them at home. Therefore the use of a veil in western countries sends out the wrong signals: lack of integration, female subservience.
wikipedia wrote:Many Muslims believe the Quran compels women to wear the veil outside the home and among those outside the family circle, although this obligation is not explicitly stated in the Quran's original text. The validity of such beliefs is discussed widely in the Muslim world [1]. The tradition of the veil itself has been in existence since before the advent of Islam. However, the obligation for Muslim women to cover their heads was made part of Islamic law after the death of Muhammad, and the custom of the veil spread via Islam to different areas of the world.
In traditional Muslim societies, an un-veiled woman may be construed as trying to seduce others, and therefore unworthy of respect.
Put their heads on f*cking pikes in front of the venue for all I care.
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sarah_orange
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I'm pretty anti veil. they're not religiously necessary - I'd never even seen a burqa till about 8 years ago and I had a fair few muslim friends at school - I don't like the idea that they're there to protect the women from the attentions of men. having spoken to someone at work whose family in pakistan wear them I've ascertained that they do it to feel safe/invisible with the implication that they'd be far more open to sexual attacks if they didn't wear it. great - so instead of dealing with the status of women and their right not to be molested but supposedly strongly religious people in a strongly religious country lets just get the women to walk around under a sack instead - that's a far better solution.
this isn't a recent thing - I was pretty outraged when my friend nausheen started covering her hair at school and saying that it was seen as necessary as a woman's hair might tempt a man. surely resisting temptation is part of the standard practice of rule-based monotheistic religion - is there going to be some sort of drive to cover bacon sandwiches incase muslims and jews can't resist the desire to eat them because they can see them? pfft!
all good rants end with pfft!
pfft!
this isn't a recent thing - I was pretty outraged when my friend nausheen started covering her hair at school and saying that it was seen as necessary as a woman's hair might tempt a man. surely resisting temptation is part of the standard practice of rule-based monotheistic religion - is there going to be some sort of drive to cover bacon sandwiches incase muslims and jews can't resist the desire to eat them because they can see them? pfft!
all good rants end with pfft!
pfft!
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itnAklipse
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sarah: Too bad it's not about what you like or whether you're anti- or pro-veil. You were upset because your friend thought this or that? Too f'n bad. Maybe you'd prefer to have a friend who doesn't have a single view that would collide with what the western propaganda-media outlets have fed you and you've swallowed happily.
No, i don't understand veils either, but it's not about that. People simply have the right to disagree with you and think whatever they like and act accordingly. Well, it's not really a right, it's an obvious thing and i don't even believe declaring that it's a right. A right is something artificial that is given by someone, like you, or me, and people simply can do whatever they please and think whatever they please.
Yeah, i'm sure all good rants end with a pfft. Yeah, that doesn't show anything about your general attitude towards topics more serious than bacon-ham-sandwhiches.
No, i don't understand veils either, but it's not about that. People simply have the right to disagree with you and think whatever they like and act accordingly. Well, it's not really a right, it's an obvious thing and i don't even believe declaring that it's a right. A right is something artificial that is given by someone, like you, or me, and people simply can do whatever they please and think whatever they please.
Yeah, i'm sure all good rants end with a pfft. Yeah, that doesn't show anything about your general attitude towards topics more serious than bacon-ham-sandwhiches.
we've got beer and we've got fuel
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markfiend
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The veil is a barrier. She wants to put up barriers between herself and the world, fine. Plenty of the rest of us put barriers between ourselves and the world too. (:von: and his shades anyone?)
However, if you're going to put barriers in the way, it's going to interfere with your ability to teach.
In a larger context, wearing the veil is seen, rightly or wrongly, as a deliberately confrontational act. Like Sarah says, it's not a necessary part, or even that common a part of religious observance in the wider Islamic world, so its relatively rapid spread among Muslim women in Britain must be due to something else.
I see the wearing of the veil as a symptom of anti "western" feeling among British Muslim women. But I find this anti-westernism deeply worrying because of the UK government's pandering to it: we already have "religious hatred" laws in the UK, largely as a result of Muslim protests.
Freedom of speech is probably the most important principle of any democracy: I'm deeply suspicious of those who would tell me "You must not say this". This way lies tyranny.
However, if you're going to put barriers in the way, it's going to interfere with your ability to teach.
In a larger context, wearing the veil is seen, rightly or wrongly, as a deliberately confrontational act. Like Sarah says, it's not a necessary part, or even that common a part of religious observance in the wider Islamic world, so its relatively rapid spread among Muslim women in Britain must be due to something else.
I see the wearing of the veil as a symptom of anti "western" feeling among British Muslim women. But I find this anti-westernism deeply worrying because of the UK government's pandering to it: we already have "religious hatred" laws in the UK, largely as a result of Muslim protests.
Freedom of speech is probably the most important principle of any democracy: I'm deeply suspicious of those who would tell me "You must not say this". This way lies tyranny.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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streamline
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My youngest daughter is 5 and I would not like her to be taught by someone wearing a veil as it would impede the communication between teacher and pupil.
It is the teacher's right to wear one (whatever my own personal views on religions, she is also entitled to hers) up to the point where it interferes with her ability to do her job. And this crosses that line.
It is the teacher's right to wear one (whatever my own personal views on religions, she is also entitled to hers) up to the point where it interferes with her ability to do her job. And this crosses that line.
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weebleswobble
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I promised myself I'd not get involved in any more of these but itnAklipse you are an absolute toolbag 
‎"We will wear some very loud shirts. We will wear some very wrong trousers."
Great minds think alike Stephen.weebleswobble wrote:I promised myself I'd not get involved in any more of these but itnAklipse you are an absolute toolbag
What's everyone's favorite colour?
Drink anyone?
Being brave is coming home at 2am half drunk, smelling of perfume, climbing into bed, slapping the wife on the arse and saying,"right fatty, you're next!!"
Well, try doubling up a handkercheif, and then placing it an inch away from your mouth, and see how legible you are through it. Especially over the noise a group of schoolchildren will make.DarkAngel wrote:Why does it matter whether or not this teacher wears a veil?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Stor ... 67,00.html
My fave colour is purple.
And I would commit murder most foul for a gin and lemonade..
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James Blast
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when in Rome...
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nick the stripper
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I saw her complaining on television last night, saying “think of the children, who was teaching them while I was away at court?�
And I just thought well, for 1. they most likely found another teacher, 2. the students were complaining because they couldn’t see your mouth, which was necessary to learn the language, and 3. if you truly cared about the children, you would of swallowed your pride and taken the veil of, a noble sacrifice…
I’m sorry, but she had a job to do, and she wasn’t doing it properly.
/thread
And I just thought well, for 1. they most likely found another teacher, 2. the students were complaining because they couldn’t see your mouth, which was necessary to learn the language, and 3. if you truly cared about the children, you would of swallowed your pride and taken the veil of, a noble sacrifice…
I’m sorry, but she had a job to do, and she wasn’t doing it properly.
/thread
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canon docre
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Religion is fine when it stays in private. The constant attempts to submit the general rules of social behaviour in our hemisphere to restrictive religious practices annoys me.
another example is Shechita.
another example is Shechita.
Put their heads on f*cking pikes in front of the venue for all I care.
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sarah_orange
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As far as I'm aware the western media had no particular opinion on muslims or the wearing of veils in when my friend started covering her hair as this was many years ago, perhaps even 20, who knows..? I formed this opinion from my discussions with her using my own brain. shockingly novel eh? I was upset because she had felt forced into doing something for a reason that seemed lacking in any decent basis. she did it because she didn't want to upset her parents not because she believed it was necessary. (in a side note: it turned out her parents were far more liberal than she'd ever thought and she eventually stopped wearing it as they certainly didn't care if she did - I always liked her mum)itnAklipse wrote:sarah: Too bad it's not about what you like or whether you're anti- or pro-veil. You were upset because your friend thought this or that? Too f'n bad. Maybe you'd prefer to have a friend who doesn't have a single view that would collide with what the western propaganda-media outlets have fed you and you've swallowed happily.
No, i don't understand veils either, but it's not about that. People simply have the right to disagree with you and think whatever they like and act accordingly. Well, it's not really a right, it's an obvious thing and i don't even believe declaring that it's a right. A right is something artificial that is given by someone, like you, or me, and people simply can do whatever they please and think whatever they please.
Yeah, i'm sure all good rants end with a pfft. Yeah, that doesn't show anything about your general attitude towards topics more serious than bacon-ham-sandwhiches.
I find your assumptions about my personality to be both naive and wholly mis-guided but rather than personally insulting you I'll just go on to point out that I have a lot of deeply held political convictions that I don't generally feel a need to discuss at depth and in a tremelous tone on the board for a british goth* band.
pfft.
I'll have a nice bloody mary with plenty of worcestershire sauce please.
*this bit's going to cause the most trouble
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sarah_orange
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erm their ~actual~ teacher - she was a teaching ~assistant~ afterall. delusions of grandeur or what?nick the stripper wrote:I saw her complaining on television last night, saying “think of the children, who was teaching them while I was away at court?�
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Planet Dave
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The one I got served in your club last month seemed to have half the worlds supply of Tabasco sauce in it! Marvellous.sarah_orange wrote:
I'll have a nice bloody mary with plenty of worcestershire sauce please.
*this bit's going to cause the most trouble
'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
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sarah_orange
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ah yes, will the bar manager, likes his hot so we've taken to plonking all the condiments down in front of people and letting them mix it how they like it.Planet Dave wrote:The one I got served in your club last month seemed to have half the worlds supply of Tabasco sauce in it! Marvellous.sarah_orange wrote:
I'll have a nice bloody mary with plenty of worcestershire sauce please.
*this bit's going to cause the most trouble
I think it's about time the Wurzels stopped singing about that Combine Harvester. It's certainly not "brand new" any more.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
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weebleswobble
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mh wrote:I think it's about time the Wurzels stopped singing about that Combine Harvester. It's certainly not "brand new" any more.
10/10
‎"We will wear some very loud shirts. We will wear some very wrong trousers."
Indeed.
*still giggleing*
*still giggleing*
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Planet Dave
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Fabulous pic Stephen.
mh, have you not heard their techno-mix of Combine Harvester? It brings the old family favourite right up to date. Ask Claire.
mh, have you not heard their techno-mix of Combine Harvester? It brings the old family favourite right up to date. Ask Claire.
'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
I don't think it is a good idea for anyone to tell Muslim women they are not integrating properly if they wear a veil. That will just p*ss them off. Whether or not we believe the veil symbolically dehumanizes women, the wearing of the veil itself does not pose a danger to anyone. Therefore, it is neither wrong nor irresponsible for a Muslim woman to wear her veil to work. It is her choice and we have to respect that.
I find it ironic that Muslim women are being questioned about their veils while some Muslim men are standing on street corners and in Mosques openly making terroristc threats - an irresponsible and illegal choice on their part. Where is the public outrage for that?
I find it ironic that Muslim women are being questioned about their veils while some Muslim men are standing on street corners and in Mosques openly making terroristc threats - an irresponsible and illegal choice on their part. Where is the public outrage for that?