Mother Russia and politic of this country

ff · 25 Oct 2006, 13:59

As Eldritch have a lot critisim regarding USA and G. Bush, I cant understand why he tolerate russian politic ind Georgia and Ickerija.

25 Oct 2006, 14:15

I would imagine it's not "toleration". It's that US political events have far more effect on the UK.

Badlander · 25 Oct 2006, 14:19

ff wrote:As Eldritch have a lot critisim regarding USA and G. Bush, I cant understand why he tolerate russian politic ind Georgia and Ickerija.

What makes you think he does ?

And how about Chechnya btw ?

Badlander · 25 Oct 2006, 14:22

markfiend wrote:I would imagine it's not "toleration". It's that US political events have far more effect on the UK.

And he's given far more opportunities to make statements regarding US policy. After all the Girls haven't played in Russia... yet.

boudicca · 25 Oct 2006, 14:43

Badlander wrote:
ff wrote:As Eldritch have a lot critisim regarding USA and G. Bush, I cant understand why he tolerate russian politic ind Georgia and Ickerija.
And how about Chechnya btw ?

That's what I were thinking.

I think it may also be true that self-proclaimed "left-wing organizations" such as the Sisters have a bit more trouble getting really het up about an ex-communist state in the way they do about the world's leading capitalist nation. Rightly or wrongly... wrongly probably.

Having said that, if I had Bush and Putin in one room, with one bullet I know who it would be going for.

streamline · 25 Oct 2006, 15:16

boudicca wrote:
Having said that, if I had Bush and Putin in one room, with one bullet I know who it would be going for.

yeah, you'd get them to line their heads up together and only need to use the one!

Badlander · 25 Oct 2006, 15:45

streamline wrote:
boudicca wrote:
Having said that, if I had Bush and Putin in one room, with one bullet I know who it would be going for.
yeah, you'd get them to line their heads up together and only need to use the one!

That's what I was going to say. Please note : I'm just saying that it can be done, not that I'd do it (don't want the CIA to intercept this post and send me to Cuba).

@ Claire : you're right. At the same time it could be argued that USSR communism was not the actual incarnation of marxism, but rather a very perverted version of it and a bloody dictatorship also. So when you're a leftist you have to make a distinction between the ideology - which is okay - and the actual regime - which is not. Not a very easy thing to do.

scotty · 25 Oct 2006, 15:51

Right.............Stop.............before we go ANY further,

can you all keep civil and refrain from getting all hot and bothered and DO NOT get your knickers ( not you Claire, we know you're all coat and nae knickers!!) in a twist as you all seem to do on these bloody political threads, thank you

As you were................

Badlander · 25 Oct 2006, 16:02

Well I can talk politics in a civilized fashion.

streamline · 25 Oct 2006, 16:15

scotty wrote:Right.............Stop.............before we go ANY further,

can you all keep civil and refrain from getting all hot and bothered and DO NOT get your knickers ( not you Claire, we know you're all coat and nae knickers!!) in a twist as you all seem to do on these bloody political threads, thank you

As you were................

Are you censoring my flippant comments Keith?

Ozpat · 25 Oct 2006, 18:22

Give Von a break!

He has not got the time and money to release Vision Thing
part II till X (or more)....

eotunun · 25 Oct 2006, 18:27

And then there are russian bands to take care of that. I donÂ´t understand why none do, I heard Siberia has a sweet countryside during summers.

James Blast · 25 Oct 2006, 18:34

Well said the Pilot of the Forres Taxi, time there was a Politics/Religious Bollocks area, Boss!

Oop, forgot, he's busy with those flour (sic) arrangements, guest placings and trinkets for the forthcoming nuptuals

canon docre · 25 Oct 2006, 19:54

ff wrote:As Eldritch have a lot critisim regarding USA and G. Bush, I cant understand why he tolerate russian politic ind Georgia and Ickerija.

My thoughts exactly. And not just there, I miss his categorical statement against the recent military killings of the Sudanese governement against the people of Dafur.
And what about the children soldiers in Congo?
China has some human right issues too.
I bet he could put Kim Jong-Ill off doing these bloody Atom tests.

And after all where was

when the Tsunami came?

bushman*pm · 25 Oct 2006, 20:11

streamline wrote:
boudicca wrote:
Having said that, if I had Bush and Putin in one room, with one bullet I know who it would be going for.
yeah, you'd get them to line their heads up together and only need to use the one!

you beat me to that one too!

heres a little mathematical doubrie to ponder:
Hitler killed 6 million Jewish people
Stalin killed 21 million Russians??!!
Also, was it not Stalin himself who said
'one death is a tragedy, a million is only a statistic'
??!!

ff · 27 Oct 2006, 11:31

I think a lot countries especialy France, Italy and Germany kiss the ass of Russian politic and its very strange to hear that he on gigs said "This war is wrong" (about Iraq) but nothing to say about other wars.
I think he dont understand politic situation in East Europe and it the reason why he is EU fanatic.

itnAklipse · 27 Oct 2006, 11:41

i think most people don't understand much about the situation of Russia/Georgia/Czezhenya. You only know what media of certain bent tells you.

If you want to know what's going on, you must talk to people of such regions, and not listen to the puppets the media likes to present to you as representatives.

Point being, it's difficult to tell what is going on in Russia, but the situation of Iraq is much simpler and easier to access, despite media bias, because certain lies have already come out and more will follow.

Stalin and his cohorts, btw, killed 65 million people in Russia, not 25.

PS: No, i don't know for certain what is going either, nor would i claim i do. But i know with 100% certainty that it's not as simple as the media says. The media is a known liar, and whatever hard truths they tell are of such nature which would have come out without them telling about it to you, that is, they will have to try and maintain the appearance of honesty and news reporting.
Media is an extremely complicated beast in the way it operates, but one whose purpose is on the other hand extremely simple. To spread certain type of information.
i think even ordinary people would be able to tell atl east 5 times that media has purpotedly lied, people who pay attention to these things can come up with hundreds of examples. Then why, oh why, do people still trust media? This is incomprehensible to me.

Badlander · 27 Oct 2006, 11:53

ff wrote:I think a lot countries especialy France, Italy and Germany kiss the ass of Russian politic and its very strange to hear that he on gigs said "This war is wrong" (about Iraq) but nothing to say about other wars.
I think he dont understand politic situation in East Europe and it the reason why he is EU fanatic.

Guess what ? Von's not a politician but a musician. Why should he have an opinion on every single international political issue ?

As for your comment regarding the EU, I just don't get it.

DeWinter · 27 Oct 2006, 13:15

Badlander wrote: As for your comment regarding the EU, I just don't get it.

The EU is pretty undemocratic if you look at how it operates. You might remember Ireland and Denmark being told "Go back and this time vote differently." over the Treaty of Nice. Also see the European President , Council of the European Union and European Commission, which have tremendous powers without any mandate from the people of Europe. Then we have breaking of the EU constitution into bite-size chunks and avoiding any public consultation on it after France and Holland voted "No".

ff · 30 Oct 2006, 12:53

I dont understand why Mr Von hate US politic? If he sing a lot of USA why he dont sing about Russia? Maybe in Vision thing part II he will start to sing:)

I think comunism and GRU, KGB made and now make more bad things that US politics.

Take look what Putin make with Georgia. Russians started economical genocide for this country teachers should inform how many children go in russian scools.Tthey closed georgian restourants an shops in Moscow banned import for mineral water and wine as "it to low quality" and etc.

As I live in small country that was occupated by USSR till 1990. I quite remember how Russian media informed about my country they said that we are "boeviki" (this termin is not the same as soldiers or warioros it something like speratists or terrorists). This termin they used for Czeczenia soldiers for freedom too.

For example website about Czeczenia was closed in my country as some our politics are bastards.

So EU close thew eyes for genocide in Czeczenia, Georgia, Podniestrije. EU need gasoline and gas from Russia like USA from Iraq and Kuwait.

So go a head everything under the gun:))

Badlander · 30 Oct 2006, 13:12

I guess all in all we agree. But don't forget that Von's a musician first and foremost, not a politician. And like most westerners, he's more interested in what goes on in the so-called Land of opportunities. Sad but true. At least he seems to understand it more easily, as most of us do.
As I said, there's no reason for him to take a stance on every single political issue. But don't forget that he supports Amnesty International, which monitors human rights violations worldwide. And I know that Putin's not fond of this very fine organisation. Quite the contrary in fact.
You're very much right about modern Russia. But after all Putin did go to KGB school. How can Russian politics change if you don't change the politicians first ? The more things change...

Edit : if you believe that Bush is Von's only target I suggest you listen to the Belgrade 2006 boot. You may find it very instructive.

a.r.kane · 30 Oct 2006, 15:06

What has communism got to do with Russia? Nothing! Absolutely nothing.

ff · 31 Oct 2006, 19:56

I think the biggest problem is not the Putin but the russians, they drink to lot of vodka, you can buy it in Moscow in every 100 meters:) If you can see russians films you can go crazy that in every film they drink vodka. and they drink 200 ml as first dose:)

A lot of russians still dream about USSR and think that all other nations should be live under Russia wings. And now very quikly grow amount of neimperialists, neofashistd and other bastards.

Of course Eldritch is not polician but Dr. Jeep, Vission thing, are examples that he not close the eyes for politic.

EvilBastard · 31 Oct 2006, 20:00

I get the impression that

's railing against the US government and its client states is because the US does rather go a bundle on setting itself up as Mr. Wonderful in terms of liberties, rights, and the rule of law.
Perhaps Mr. E feels the need to expose the hypocrisy?

ff · 16 Nov 2006, 09:57

I think this topic should be cloesed:)