Vision Thing Reissue

[Arrrgh!]

So, I've just picked up two of the three reissues. I haven't had a chance to listen to them all the way through, but I did notice to much mirth that the spine of my Vision Thing reissue actually contains a spelling error. Mine says:

THE SISTERS OF MERCY VISIOIN THING

I s**t you not. I guess that's what comes of a record company not involving the artist in the reissue. I suspect that's the kind of thing Von may have noticed, had he been involved.

Also, I've just noticed the liner notes includes the following:

"I got along quite well with Patricia," Bruhn told an interviewer from Heartland, on online Sisters discussion forum.

Hmm. More later.

[Obviousman]

Well, if there's just a couple of 'spelling mistake' ones: at least a new collectible

And HL's in the liner notes?

[aims]

Indeed

http://myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=7246

[Petseri]

Also, I've just noticed the liner notes includes the following:

"I got along quite well with Patricia," Bruhn told an interviewer from Heartland, on online Sisters discussion forum.

That brings a smile to my face.

[randdebiel²]

but what about the music dammit!

what's different, is it good etc?

[Ozpat]

but what about the music dammit!

what's different, is it good etc?

Same question...

Without the dammit part...

[streamline]

Well, my copy of "Visioin Thing" has just arrived (still waiting for FALAA) but I can't play it at work...... might pop out to the shops for a drive and listen to it in the car. I quite like the packaging as it has a nice "feel" to it and the liner notes are worth a read (much better than the Floodland notes, mainly because they are complete!) Also like the repro of the Puk track data for "Bon Jovi" especially as they spell Von's name as "Eldridge" - I wonder how many times this happens? Taylor is so much easier to spell!!
Am tickled pink by the spelling mistake - Rhino need to employ a proof-reader!

If no-one beats me to it, I'll comment on the sound later on.

[RetroGoth]

Am tickled pink by the spelling mistake - Rhino need to employ a proof-reader!

There were mistakes on the Yes reissues that Rhino done as well. One version of Owner Of A Lonely Heart from 90125 was listed as an unreleased 12" when it was a so-called 'dance mix' - which topped the dance charts in it's day. I reckon they have school kids doing the work who never heard of the artists.

As von dosen't seem to have been involved with the Sisters reissues, I'll take what is in the notes with a pinch of salt. Mind you, he did distance himself from the SSV project but hasn't said anything about these.

[Arrrgh!]

Okay, unless I'm imagining things, there seems to be no difference in the sound quality at all. In fact, it seems to me to be significant that this album features the words reissue on the cover, so I don't think it's a remaster.

Interestingly, when I imported it into iTunes, it stored it next to my exisitng version of Vision Thing - It comes up as Vision Thing (Remastered). However, I've been playing the different versions side by side, and I can't hear any difference. I just asked my wife to listen to bits of ribbons, vision thing and more to see if she could tell the difference. She can't and made the point that if we are having to have a debate about it, then it hasn't been remastered. Anything else we've heard that's been remastered, most notably all the cure reissues, have immediately jumped out of the speakers. It's been obvious.

I wouldn't mind, but Vision Thing does sound muddy and out of balance in places that could easily have done with a dose of soundsoap.

However, the most damning thing about this reissue, the thing that makes me think the record company is taking the p*ss most, is that at exactly 1:50 seconds into the live version of Something Fast at the end, the audio skips for two seconds. I first noticed it in my car stereo, and thought perhaps the disk was dirty. But it's not. It plays perfectly - it's just that nobody listened to the disc properly all the way through, or proofread the cover properly. For shame.

I wonder if Von could sue for professional negligence? I assume he doesn't own the copyright and has had nothing to do with these reissues, but if they are done so badly that they damage the brand, so to speak, does he have any comeback?

On a positive note, this is a cracking album. It's flawed in a few places, but Vision Thing, Ribbons, Dr Jeep and Something Fast are worth the price of admission easily. The extras are nice-ish but I can't help thinking a great opportunity has been missed. There should have been much more extras added to this, and it could have been a cracker.

[RetroGoth]

I think Vision Thing was recorded digitally in the first place (it will have the legend 'DDD' if it has) so it would't need remastering.

[Arrrgh!]

so it would't need remastering.

Yes, I'm sure you are right. However, the production of this album is a bit . . . moribund. It sounds like an early 1990s MOR rock record, which of course is exactly what it mostly is. My thoughts were just that it could have been given a nice new lease of life by introducing more space between the guitar and drum tracks, and a subtle twiddling of the EQ knobs. Purists I'm sure wouldn't approve, but in my opinion, that would have lifted it a little, and made it a more pleasent listening experience. There are some bootlegs I would rather listen to for VT tracks than the actual album, because they sound more vital and aggressive.

Also, the live tracks that made it onto the reissue are nice and all, and they are, but wouldn't it have been cool to have some nice soundboard versions included of how the band plays some of those tracks now? In particularly the title track kicks serious ass on stage, in a way that I don't think the studio version does justice to.

This is all shoulda/woulda/coulda stuff, but hey, this is the Internet.

[RetroGoth]

so it would't need remastering.

Yes, I'm sure you are right. However, the production of this album is a bit . . . moribund. It sounds like an early 1990s MOR rock record, which of course is exactly what it mostly is. My thoughts were just that it could have been given a nice new lease of life by introducing more space between the guitar and drum tracks, and a subtle twiddling of the EQ knobs. Purists I'm sure wouldn't approve, but in my opinion, that would have lifted it a little, and made it a more pleasent listening experience. There are some bootlegs I would rather listen to for VT tracks than the actual album, because they sound more vital and aggressive.

Also, the live tracks that made it onto the reissue are nice and all, and they are, but wouldn't it have been cool to have some nice soundboard versions included of how the band plays some of those tracks now? In particularly the title track kicks serious ass on stage, in a way that I don't think the studio version does justice to.

This is all shoulda/woulda/coulda stuff, but hey, this is the Internet.

And there is commerce. How to make money with as little outlay as possible but I do agree with what you say about remastering. I did like VT (not as much as other albums) because it was raw but it could have benefitted from some tweaking here and there. The remixes of More (Power mix and the other one) I didn't like but music is like art, very subjective and is in the eye (or ear) of the beholder.

With the live tracks, didn't von get them from a bootleg he found in Germany and added them as B Sides like he did on Dr Jeep? I've not got mine yet so can't comment on the reissue live tracks and I didn't bother buying the German import CD when it was released (why not in Britain?) With only eight songs and one B side track for the Vision Thing era, was von either suffering from writers' block or was the record company relationship bad at that point and decided to hold stuff back?

I was wondering if the vinyl versions of that song were different from the extended version on the CD single? If so, I wonder if they are floating around in flac or wav format?

[Badlander]

With the live tracks, didn't von get them from a bootleg he found in Germany and added them as B Sides like he did on Dr Jeep?

You mean the WYDSM b-sides ? They most certainly aren't from any kind of bootleg as they sound just perfect and they're obviously soundboard recording. I have the bootleg version of that show and it's amazing what proper recording and mastering can do. They're worlds apart.
Which leads me to wonder : why not a second CD with more songs from that same show (Hamburg 17.11.90), if not the whole gig ? They certainly didn't record just two songs. Record companies can be so damn lazy sometimes it's scary.

[RetroGoth]

With the live tracks, didn't von get them from a bootleg he found in Germany and added them as B Sides like he did on Dr Jeep?

You mean the WYDSM b-sides ? They most certainly aren't from any kind of bootleg as they sound just perfect and they're obviously soundboard recording. I have the bootleg version of that show and it's amazing what proper recording and mastering can do. They're worlds apart.
Which leads me to wonder : why not a second CD with more songs from that same show (Hamburg 17.11.90), if not the whole gig ? They certainly didn't record just two songs. Record companies can be so damn lazy sometimes it's scary.

It would depend on how many tracks von let the record company have, a whole non-bootleg live show would be good. I am more intreigued about the live tracks now - let's hope the dum f**ker of a postman puts my CDs through the right door!

[aims]

I think Vision Thing was recorded digitally in the first place (it will have the legend 'DDD' if it has) so it would't need remastering.

Erm, digital vs analogue has absolutely no bearing on remasters bar any initial conversions.

The ultimate test for remastering of course is to open the two versions (ripped with identical parameters on the same drive) in an audio editor and check for differences. Depending on the quality of your system, some changes won't be obvious in the slightest, but can make the recording listenable for far longer periods without ear fatigue.

[markfiend]

And also, even if the audio wasn't detectably different, you'd get different checksums.

[aims]

I'd not go for that method, given that even within RedBook's acceptable error rate, you'd still get more than enough divergance between two copies from different master disks (never mind different masterings) to throw a spanner in the checking algorithm.

[mh]

Just checked, I've got the skips, the misprint, and the tracks not sounding one bit different.

Oh well, another botched Sisters reissue. The only surprise I suppose is that folks are surprised.

[Big Si]

When it was first released in 1990 my Big Sista thought it sounded far too 'tinny' so she always mucked about with the bass-treble switch on the ghetto blaster, here's hoping the mix sounds more bassy this time

[markfiend]

I'd not go for that method, given that even within RedBook's acceptable error rate, you'd still get more than enough divergance between two copies from different master disks (never mind different masterings) to throw a spanner in the checking algorithm.

Aye, I guess that's true.

I never think these things through.

[mh]

Hmmmmm.

Just listened to the full thing, and it seems that we live in interesting times.

There are some slightly different mixes on it.



Audibly, the dynamics are better and it sounds clearer and with more balls. The actual arrangement is identical though, but the "new" version is about 8 seconds longer.

The same also applies to Dr Jeep and Something Fast. (SF is a little shorter in the new version).

The rest of the tracks are much the same though.

How curious.

[TheBoyNextDoor]

Actually all tracks are "remastered", a bit at least.

This is More.. the above one is from the new:


...and the distorted sounds are more obvious then on the older. So there.

[aims]

oOo

Looks like they got a mastering engineer in this time instead of an idiot with a brick wall limitter. Lovely

Seriously looking forward to hearing the newly dynamic versions

[James Blast]

and I'm lost for stupid, again

[aims]

Basically, background music sounds better if you crush the dynamics of everything, i.e. Removing much trace of a difference between loud and quiet parts, since any volume boost is then far more significant. For anyone who sees music as more than a consumer product and actually listens in the slightest detail, this sounds shite in comparison to a quieter yet more dynamic recording - dynamics are a key part of musical expression.

Listen to some original Bowie, T-Rex and INXS LPs closely and at suitable volume. Then, without touching the volume dial, put on some similar stuff from the past 5 or 10 years. Assuming that your ears aren't left unusable by the immense aural assault that ensues, you're going to hear a comparatively major lack of definition and depth in the music, because it's had the dynamics crushed out of it by a brick wall.