discussing bootlegs' artwork

[ormfdmrush]

after my vonny behavior couple weeks ago, i'd like to discuss that
actually (sorry), most bootleg DVD/CD covers suck
the top ones for me are Paris 2006 by doctoravalanche and Moscow 2006 by Wrecker
i also accept most of White Label Recordings and Blast Productions stuff, but i cannot specify the best of their works
some vinyl bootlegs' artwork is good

[itnAklipse]

Too many people making stuff, any talentless dweeb with photoshop thinks he has 'taste'. That said, some of the stuff is well-made, but only some.

i usually prefer simplicity, cause i'm a simple guy.

[ormfdmrush]

i usually prefer simplicity, cause i'm a simple guy.

exactly

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

But aren't you talking about 'home made' artwork?

Concerning 'official' bootleg 'artwork', only the Brussels thing has materialised from 2006. And a pile of s**t it is too.

Nothing from 2005. 'Smoke And Mirrors' from 2003 (digipak: is well made) and that's it.

Off at a tangent ...

The Sisters were the most bootlegged band in the early eighties.

The record companies don't care any more.

The bootleggers don't care anymore as there's no audience/buyers. (Brussels 2006 was sold/made by a fan).

The Sisters Of Mercy are a pale shadow of their former selfs. Period. And as such, attract the same commercial interest. Zilch.

When you're dropped by the bootleggers then you know there's no way out.

Sad, but true.

[Syberberg]

When you're dropped by the bootleggers then you know there's no way out.

Sad, but true.

There's still a fairly large market for bootleg merchandise, just not for the recorded product. Could well be the actions of those of us who share/weed live boots has had an impact on that side of the market regardless of the band in question. Let's face it, the tech is now readily available for anyone to record, manufacture and distribute live boots that it's no longer profitable or desirable to buy "commerically" made boots. We, the fans, have completely underminded the market.

Back on topic - I like the artwork to be relevant to the gig. Good pic, date and place on the front with another good pic and track-list/date/venue on the back. Nice.

[robertzombie]

Preferably a picture from the gig itself and no silly bootleg title!

[Psy]

I actually like artwork and titles with my bootlegs, even crap artwork and titles It gives them identity, and I usually think of them in terms of titles rather than dates and venues. Problably a habit from the old vinyl bootleg days. Collecting just seemed more "physical" before the days of CDR copying.

[itnAklipse]

On this i agree with Psy, that it would be nice if people titled their recordings, even silly titles (though i have to say that 'Godfathers of Goth' is almost offensive i wonder if it's a reference to Lucio Fulci as 'Godfather of Gore'). Or at least if more of them did than do now (at least a few good people did title recordings from 2006). It does give more identity to the recording.

[ormfdmrush]

btw who is White Label Recordings?

[_emma_]

Am I the only person here who keeps her bootleg CDs in tatty paper or plastic envelopes with just the town and year written on them with an ordinary pen?

[Pista]

Am I the only person here who keeps her bootleg CDs in tatty paper or plastic envelopes with just the town and year written on them with an ordinary pen?

No you're not.
I also do it, well, at the weekend & splashed out on some CD cases to start tidying them up, but I still only use the venue & date to identify them.

This eliminates confusion that is frequently experienced with multiple copies of the same concert bearing different names.
It bugs the crap out of me & at least the date gets to the point in 1 hit.
However, that said, a name combined with where the hell it was recorded is almost okay, but most of the names a bollox anyway.
I mean...."Godfathers of Goth" Who th hell thought
of that one?
&, take Disguised in Black. Possibly the best live recording around & someone gave it a name like that

[Dark]

Am I the only person here who keeps her bootleg CDs in tatty paper or plastic envelopes with just the town and year written on them with an ordinary pen?

Fair enough if they're just weeds, but for boots that are designed to be sold, I expect proper artwork, and more effort than just town/date scrawled onto a cheap Imation CD-R.

[Pista]

But do you really think that the names & artwork are any good?

Take the Crystal Palace gig for example.
Sh!t cover & sh!t name.

What's wrong with
"The Sisters Of Mercy live at ......... + date"?
With maybe a photo from the show & not some stock photo of Eldo looking like he's modelling a pair of rayban aviators in a littlewoods catalogue!
Surely we need standards if we are going to splash out a significant handfull of hard earned folding on it.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

I totally agree with some of the comments above. It should be simple but accurate, which sent me looking through my silver collection. 'Live In Amsterdam 1984' (I don't need to know where that 'hair' front cover pic is on the subjects body but I can probably guess) and 'Colours In Carnage' hit the spot, as they're nearly accurate. As opposed to 'Napalm Gods' with a pic of TJ On the cover.

But didn't the bootleggers make deliberate mistakes (wrong pics, wrong song titles, vague dates etc etc) to signify that the item was a bootleg?

@ Syberberg - There's still a huge commercial market for bootlegs out there. Let's face it, do you want a well produced audience boot or a professionally produced sbd/mx recording? Today, from what I see at record fairs, some of the biggest bands in the world are bootlegged. Funnily enough, they're all sbd/mx recordings with professional artwork. But then I guess 'the biggest bands in the world' (after 'losing' the live masters) have the legal/financial guys who do bother to take the ca$h from the escrow accounts set up in San Remo or Liechtenstein.

So, the professional bootleggers can make money and do make money but The Sisters, unfortunately, are yesterdays news. As much as it pains me to say that.

On a lighter note ...Whilst wading through the silvers, "Arc Angel" and "Hum Of The Powerlines" caught my attenttion as I haven't seen them for years anywhere. Anyone else have copies?

[itnAklipse]

Didn't the Smoke and Mirrors bootleg sell quite well? Can't imagine the producer didn't make a profit. i'd buy stuff like that. Plenty of opportunities for great bootlegs on the last tour, first gig in US for ages, first gig in Paris, Moscow, Helsinki, Istanbul...at least for me, such things have more "shine" than the umpteenth gig in Hamburg, which isn't to say anything against Hamburg or gigs there, just that i like exotic locations

[Planet Dave]

I totally agree with some of the comments above. It should be simple but accurate, which sent me looking through my silver collection. 'Live In Amsterdam 1984' (I don't need to know where that 'hair' front cover pic is on the subjects body but I can probably guess) and 'Colours In Carnage' hit the spot, as they're nearly accurate. As opposed to 'Napalm Gods' with a pic of TJ On the cover.

But didn't the bootleggers make deliberate mistakes (wrong pics, wrong song titles, vague dates etc etc) to signify that the item was a bootleg?

@ Syberberg - There's still a huge commercial market for bootlegs out there. Let's face it, do you want a well produced audience boot or a professionally produced sbd/mx recording? Today, from what I see at record fairs, some of the biggest bands in the world are bootlegged. Funnily enough, they're all sbd/mx recordings with professional artwork. But then I guess 'the biggest bands in the world' (after 'losing' the live masters) have the legal/financial guys who do bother to take the ca$h from the escrow accounts set up in San Remo or Liechtenstein.

So, the professional bootleggers can make money and do make money but The Sisters, unfortunately, are yesterdays news. As much as it pains me to say that.

On a lighter note ...Whilst wading through the silvers, "Arc Angel" and "Hum Of The Powerlines" caught my attenttion as I haven't seen them for years anywhere. Anyone else have copies?

I've got Hum Of The Powerlines, but its just a cdr from Adrenachrome. Never thought there was an 'offical' bootleg version of it.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

Didn't the Smoke and Mirrors bootleg sell quite well?

Very much so, but I'd put that down to a quality recording (I don't know the source) and the inclusion of the Sulpher set which appealed to two sets of fans. The last copy I saw on ebay sold for € 40,00.

I totally agree with everything else you've said but unless the sbd/mx versions are released, then who would pay good money for something they can trade/weed (audience recordings) for free?

[itnAklipse]

Paradise Lost? Or Sulpher? i don't think Sulpher upped the sales much...

Yes, if Von doesn't want to make a record, then release some sbd-recordings to reliable bootleggers as he's done before, dammit.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

I've got Hum Of The Powerlines, but its just a cdr from Adrenachrome. Never thought there was an 'offical' bootleg version of it.

It's a live US gig. For you, and only for you, I'll drag the boxes out again tomorrow to check.

[itnAklipse]

i just saw the Moscow Thing DVD cover the first time and stuff like that makes me wish i had a colour printer Then it'd be worth storing such DVDs in DVD cases. That could be commercial stuff.

PS: Just saw the Paris thing, and very nice, too.

[Johnny Rev 7.0]

Paradise Lost? Or Sulpher?

Of course I meant Paradise Lost ...

i don't think Sulpher upped the sales much...

Yeh, they were s**t.

But all this talk about support bands has soiled my memory of the Forum 18th April 2003 show. I can see them and hear them in my head. I remember them. "Oceansize".

* shudder *

[Syberberg]

@ Syberberg - There's still a huge commercial market for bootlegs out there. Let's face it, do you want a well produced audience boot or a professionally produced sbd/mx recording?

Personally I prefer a well produced audience boot, there's just something more desirable about it. A recording from the mixing desk (either backline or front-of-house) is just a semi-official live album. For me, the whole joy of a boot is that it's taken from the perspective of the audience, it's more involved in the experience...if that makes any sense.

Now, I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with a boot taken from the mixing desk, for me it's all about personal preference.

Today, from what I see at record fairs, some of the biggest bands in the world are bootlegged. Funnily enough, they're all sbd/mx recordings with professional artwork. But then I guess 'the biggest bands in the world' (after 'losing' the live masters) have the legal/financial guys who do bother to take the ca$h from the escrow accounts set up in San Remo or Liechtenstein.

Good point. I agree that from a professional audio bootlegger's POV, The Sisters aren't as commerically viable as from the POV of the merchandise bootleggers. There's far more profit in the sale of T-shirts and hoodies than in CDs.

[Pista]

I have to agree with syberberg.
Take the Trojan Horse recording.
It's dry & lifeless.
The whole point of a live recording is that it is LIVE.
I remember the original Moscow thing thread & someone wrote about capturing the moment.
I think this is essential.
Concerts are (or should be) an interactive thing. Band & audience bounce off each other & that makes them special & despite however many times someone plays the same venue, the feel & the mood is going to be different each time.

[itnAklipse]

i think there's a different reason as to why most mx bootlegs aren't very good...they are simply unbalanced cause the components haven't been adjusted for the recording but for the venue and space. A good mx recording would take all the channels separetely and then they would be mixed properly.
Most mx-recordings are also very dry and that degenerates the listening experience even further. Someone probably could say why they are like that. But good mx-recordings are just the best, i like Dark Xmas in London a lot, and Newcastle-85 is also mx, Welcome to the Temple of Love, the Darks Were in Milan...
And then there's the Leeds 2003 recordings that sound like mx to me but aren't...more audience recordings like that, please Actually those could've been released as commercial boots.

But for me it's all about the performance, not about the live experience or capturing the moment or interaction with the audience. Doesn't work when i'm listening to it in my bedroom anyway

PS: i love all my recordings, though.

[Karst]

btw who is White Label Recordings?

Yours truly. Why?