Republic of Scotland

[Erudite]

Ok, not quite yet, but clearly there is a missive swing towards the SNP in the Scotland with them gaining many of the regional seats and some of the constituencies.

I, for one, are all for it and am behind Scottish independence.
This is not Anti English sentiment but the desire for self determination.

What's the view of those both north and south of the border?

[Doktor Gott]

All for it, simply because I'd be able to get dual nationality! and I could ditch my British passport, which quite frankly is becoming something of a liability in the wider world these days!

[Planet Dave]

More power to you. I've been campaigning for the People's Republik Of Mancunia for years, which i can see being a tad troublesome. No reason whatsoever though for yourselves not to be independant.

[Erudite]

More power to you. I've been campaigning for the People's Republik Of Mancunia for years, which i can see being a tad troublesome. No reason whatsoever though for yourselves not to be independant.

Start with the PR of West Yorkshire

[Planet Dave]

More power to you. I've been campaigning for the People's Republik Of Mancunia for years, which i can see being a tad troublesome. No reason whatsoever though for yourselves not to be independant.

Start with the PR of West Yorkshire

Sod them! I'd build a big wall, Judge Cal stylee, all the way round West Yorkshire to keep em from getting out (after I'd returned home from exxile, naturally). I suppose they could call that a republic, of sorts.

[eotunun]

View from south-west, across a bit of water and then a few more borders:
Bollox!
Remove all borders inside Europe I say!

[Norman Hunter]

Ah'll si' thee

[weebleswobble]

I'd build a big wall, Judge Cal stylee

[mh]

Just be sure that you consult with this guy first:



I'm all for knocking down all borders too. It's about time we showed nationalism the door.

[DeWinter]

Ok, not quite yet, but clearly there is a missive swing towards the SNP in the Scotland with them gaining many of the regional seats and some of the constituencies.

I, for one, are all for it and am behind Scottish independence.
This is not Anti English sentiment but the desire for self determination.

What's the view of those both north and south of the border?

Personally? As an Englishman, go for it. Scotland should leave with dignity rather than face the embarrassment of being booted out by the English, as is entirely possible. Support for Scottish independence is much higher in England than Scotland. I'd vote for it, and I actually LIKE Scotland!! I even support their sports teams, although I couldn't tell you why exactly..

You can take back Blair, Brown, Reid, Darling, Falconer, Galloway, Ming Campbell, Whisky Kennedy and all the old Glaswegian drunks asking me for "twenny pee furra cuppa tee" in London train and tube stations.
We'll take back the Hooray Henry's living a caricature Brigadoon lifestyle in their restored Highland piles,and the Londoners selling up and buying cheap in Scotland, driving your property prices up, and fencing off common land.

You get the oil and the Trot politicians, we take the gas and the 11 billion subsidy back.

Of course it does mean we'll be saddled in England with near permanent Tory Government, but that's better than ever having to deal with Labour again, and being dragged into five foreign wars in the course of a decade, and getting the EU constitution-that-isnt-a-constitution sneaked in.

Scotland can evolve into the Scandinavian style welfare-state it admires, although it may have trouble persuading Scots who want to earn big bucks from buggering off down to England.

England can end the multi-cultural experiment and try to find a better way to integrate it's minority groups, dismantle it's state-sector, lower taxation,and quit the EU for EFTA.

Both countries will be better off seperate. England's drift to the right, and Scotlands to the left are impossible to accommodate together.Ulster will eventually most likely become an independent province of it's own propped up by the EU, and Wales will probably decide it's bread is buttered on the English side and remain with them. Wether the English want to keep them is a somewhat different matter.

[markfiend]

Jesus DeWinter if your analysis is anywhere near a halfway-decent forecast I'm off to Mainland Europe ASAP.

[Erudite]

Personally? As an Englishman, go for it. Scotland should leave with dignity rather than face the embarrassment of being booted out by the English, as is entirely possible. Support for Scottish independence is much higher in England than Scotland. I'd vote for it, and I actually LIKE Scotland!! I even support their sports teams, although I couldn't tell you why exactly..

You can take back Blair, Brown, Reid, Darling, Falconer, Galloway, Ming Campbell, Whisky Kennedy and all the old Glaswegian drunks asking me for "twenny pee furra cuppa tee" in London train and tube stations.
We'll take back the Hooray Henry's living a caricature Brigadoon lifestyle in their restored Highland piles,and the Londoners selling up and buying cheap in Scotland, driving your property prices up, and fencing off common land.

You get the oil and the Trot politicians, we take the gas and the 11 billion subsidy back.

Of course it does mean we'll be saddled in England with near permanent Tory Government, but that's better than ever having to deal with Labour again, and being dragged into five foreign wars in the course of a decade, and getting the EU constitution-that-isnt-a-constitution sneaked in.

Scotland can evolve into the Scandinavian style welfare-state it admires, although it may have trouble persuading Scots who want to earn big bucks from buggering off down to England.

England can end the multi-cultural experiment and try to find a better way to integrate it's minority groups, dismantle it's state-sector, lower taxation,and quit the EU for EFTA.

Both countries will be better off seperate. England's drift to the right, and Scotlands to the left are impossible to accommodate together.Ulster will eventually most likely become an independent province of it's own propped up by the EU, and Wales will probably decide it's bread is buttered on the English side and remain with them. Wether the English want to keep them is a somewhat different matter.

Personally, I'd gladly pay extra tax to have a decent level of education and health care. But then while I dress to the right my politics are firmly left of centre.
Have to concur with the majority of your points. However, will only accept the repatriation of Gordon Brown on the condition that the fat cunt's head is detached from his body and mounted on a pike.

Reasoned debate will only get you so far.

[Dr. Moody]

Do it

[DeWinter]

[
Personally, I'd gladly pay extra tax to have a decent level of education and health care. But then while I dress to the right my politics are firmly left of centre.
Have to concur with the majority of your points. However, will only accept the repatriation of Gordon Brown on the condition that the fat cunt's head is detached from his body and mounted on a pike.

Reasoned debate will only get you so far.

Well, my politics are more right of centre, making me probably the only one in the whole of TSOM "fandom"!
I'm sure the English will be happy to accomodate you regarding the Member for Kirkaldy. Take Rifkind, Teddy Taylor, Fox and Cameron, decapitated or otherwise and we'll throw in the gas fields, too!!
Who gets Blair, btw? Born and raised in Scotland, but holds an English seat? I suggest whoever gets him makes him Ambassador to Iraq. With any luck someone will get lucky and we wont have to pay the swines fat pension..after all, Gordon has shafted all of ours!
Markfiend:
Hmm, what do you object to so strongly? The EU bit? Best thing to do would have a referendum, EU federalism or withdrawal. There are valid arguements for both, let them be made, and the decision put to the citizens of England. If the federalist side win, they have a mandate for their actions rather than doing it via trickery with words.

[mh]

Personally, I'd gladly pay extra tax to have a decent level of education and health care.

Agreed.

Lowering tax (in particular income tax) leads directly to a lowered level of public service. Additionally, a lot of basic services which had previously been subsidised by taxation, or were provided for free, end up having charges either introduced or increased.

While the "low tax economy" theory seems attractive, as it gives people freedom to decide where their money goes, in practice the money will not go to building the kind of services infrastructure that a 21st century country needs. Net result is that people begin to die on hospital waiting lists, schools fill with rats, transport goes to pot(holes). All while private enterprise soaks up the money and gives nothing back to the country. This is happening in Ireland today. Formulating economic policy based on aesthetic preferences rather than sound principles never works. Watch as your country begins the slide towards the Third World.

[streamline]

Well, my politics are more right of centre, making me probably the only one in the whole of TSOM "fandom"!

You are not alone..... (pulls up collar and shuffles into the corner )

Who gets Blair, btw? Born and raised in Scotland, but holds an English seat?

Half Each...

[Erudite]

SNP victory - 47 seats to Labour's 46.
Slight, but still a massive shift.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

[boudicca]

I voted Lib Dem on all counts, as per

Though SNP were my fourth choice in the numbered one, after another Libdem candidate (there were two in Strathkelvin and Bearsden), and the Greens... Labour didn't feature.

I see the pros and cons of independence, so I thought I'd chuck in the Nats as the last choice just to put the wind up Jack McConnell, who annoys the s**t out of me.

Tragic to see Tommy Sheridan booted out wasn't it?

[Erudite]

I voted Lib Dem on all counts, as per

Though SNP were my fourth choice in the numbered one, after another Libdem candidate (there were two in Strathkelvin and Bearsden), and the Greens... Labour didn't feature.

I see the pros and cons of independence, so I thought I'd chuck in the Nats as the last choice just to put the wind up Jack McConnell, who annoys the s**t out of me.

Tragic to see Tommy Sheridan booted out wasn't it?

Voted Lib Dem at the last UK General Election but I'm afraid Ming is a little too right wing for my socialist soul.

Didn't see any point voting for anyone in the council elections other than the SNP on the grounds that I didn't want my vote to indirectly elect someone from a party whose policies I don't support.

Guess it's all up in the air now depending on Labour and Lib Dem reaction.
Might have to go through this all again if a First Minister isn't chosen in 28 days time.

[boudicca]

Ah see, now I've never been able to bring myself to vote tactically. I think it's bad for democracy, in a way... if people don't vote for who they actually support then we might as well be getting "intimidation". It has the same effect.

[DeWinter]

Looks like plus ca change, to me. The Lib Dems very rarely possess an actual policy they stick to, but one they've frequently reiterated is no to an independence referendum, that means Labour/Lib-Dem again. I can't see them choosing McConnell, but then again, with the exception of Alex Salmond, talent isn't profuse in Scottish domestic politics, so the choice is limited. Even he is more clever than actually competent, from what I see of him.
I feel bad for the people of Scotland though, this is clearly a mandate for an independence referendum, and to be denied it in the way they are likely to be strikes me as more than a little shoddy. Hopefully the fact that it will be Brown and Campbell denying their countrymen their right will make Scotland finally lose the notion that it's England somehow stopping them.
Leaves us with a major can of worms within the rest of the UK though. Labour having no majority in Scotland, and losing the popular vote in England at the last election, how does Brown claim to be an acceptable Prime Minister? Never mind he's from a Scottish constituency yet nearly all the decisions he makes will effect England only. And if he calls a snap election and loses to Cameron, how can his party claim the right to speak for Scotland on reserved matters when they are hardly on the radar there?

[Erudite]

Ah see, now I've never been able to bring myself to vote tactically. I think it's bad for democracy, in a way... if people don't vote for who they actually support then we might as well be getting "intimidation". It has the same effect.

Okay - you've confused me - surely by placing a number of preferences you were voting tactically?

For many years I was a Labour supporter - even helped elect Blair back in '95, for my sins. But as the years have gone by it has become increasingly clear IMO that New Labour = watered down Thatcherite policies.
I look at party policies and vote for the government I think will best serve the people (which is more or less what I did before, but of course I made the mistake of thinking New Labour would remain left wing).
Last General Election it looked like the Lib Dems under Charles Kennedy.
This time for the Scottish Assembly Alex Salmond has convinced me by being against nuclear weapons and power, the war in Iraq and for the abolition of student loan debts and the reinstatement of grants.
Everyone IMHO should have the right to higher education regardless of their background. Under Labour we have moved steadily towards a situation where only the rich will be able to afford to study for a degree.
All of which is a rather long winded way of saying I didn't vote tactically. I voted SNP all the way because I believe their policies will be best for the people of Scotland.
I also happen to believe we are strong enough for an independent Scotland. Of course, even if the SNP do ever get to hold a national referendum it is entirely possible that the majority will remain in favour of being part of the UK. But at least the people will have been asked.

[Dark]

Let Scotland do what they want.

If they want to become independent, they can, so long as it's all done properly.

If we remove all the borders, fine, so long as it's all done properly.

[Erudite]

Let Scotland do what they want.

If they want to become independent, they can, so long as it's all done properly.

If we remove all the borders, fine, so long as it's all done properly.

Do I detect a theme here?

[scotty]

It's a shit idea IMO, "if it aint broke don't fix it".That prick Mel Gibson has a lot to answer for.............Khunt