Manchester Goth Couple Attacked.

[markfiend]

Using terms like 'chav' and 'wigger' does not suggest any great intellectual thought or argument.

You do have a point. Stereotyping people was probably part of the problem in this sad case.

[canon docre]

what exactly is the difference between a chav and a wigger?

[markfiend]

Well, since you ask, and this is my interpretation, a "wigger" is a white person pretending to be black. A contraction of "white n****r".

A chav is white, probably unemployed, wears baseball cap, hooded top, cheap-but-flash-looking jewellery.

Stupid stereotypes really.

[silentNate]

"What monstrosities would walk the streets were some people's faces as unfinished as their minds."

Eric Hoffer

[canon docre]

Well, since you ask, and this is my interpretation, a "wigger" is a white person pretending to be black. A contraction of "white n****r".

A chav is white, probably unemployed, wears baseball cap, hooded top, cheap-but-flash-looking jewellery.

Sounds like the same person to me.

[Silver_Owl]

Well, since you ask, and this is my interpretation, a "wigger" is a white person pretending to be black. A contraction of "white n****r".

A chav is white, probably unemployed, wears baseball cap, hooded top, cheap-but-flash-looking jewellery.

Sounds like the same person to me.

Eminem is a wigger I guess.
GLC are chavs.

[Pista]

Well, since you ask, and this is my interpretation, a "wigger" is a white person pretending to be black. A contraction of "white n****r".

A chav is white, probably unemployed, wears baseball cap, hooded top, cheap-but-flash-looking jewellery.

Sounds like the same person to me.

Both thugs too apparently

[6FeetOver]

Well, since you ask, and this is my interpretation, a "wigger" is a white person pretending to be black. A contraction of "white n****r".

A chav is white, probably unemployed, wears baseball cap, hooded top, cheap-but-flash-looking jewellery.

Stupid stereotypes really.

How are they "stereotypes," though? African-American, Latino, and Caucasian gangsters and thugs exist all over the U.S.; Chicago and Los Angeles are legendary hotbeds of very real drug turf wars fought by infamous gangs with guns more powerful than those possessed by the local law enforcement. These are realities - subcultures - not stereotypes. Eminem, a Caucasian male, has long adopted the posturing and "thug" rapping/clothing styles of African-American rappers. "Wigger" isn't a stereotype, it's a derogatory slang term for a very real subculture.

[6FeetOver]

Well, since you ask, and this is my interpretation, a "wigger" is a white person pretending to be black. A contraction of "white n****r".

A chav is white, probably unemployed, wears baseball cap, hooded top, cheap-but-flash-looking jewellery.

Sounds like the same person to me.

Both thugs too apparently

Generally-speaking, yes.

[6FeetOver]

"What monstrosities would walk the streets were some people's faces as unfinished as their minds."

Eric Hoffer

That theme's explored to an extent in Robert R. McCammon's "Swan Song."

[6FeetOver]

I dare say you're right dei. It's one of life's comforting illusions isn't it, that we're "better" than animals.

It seems to me that only the "animals" in human societies believe themselves to be above other animals...

[6FeetOver]

Using terms like 'chav' and 'wigger' does not suggest any great intellectual thought or argument. I also find it interesting that 'itnAklipse' would, "want the social structure of ancient Rome" as it is obvious to anyone bundling wood to start a fire that he is a fascist.

Whilst I feel bad for the poor girl who is dead I find little humanity in many of the responses here.

-No, but they've been included in intelligent discussions by folks here who see a monstrous problem and don't quite know how to about finding a solution. I've not seen your take on solving the overarching crisis that's led to members of these subcultures feeling a compelling need to snuff out the members of others...

-What, in your estimation, defines "humanity?"

[Syberberg]

At any rate, i want the social structure of ancient Rome.

Does that include the salvery and complete lack of women's rights?

Side note: Slavery was ended by indentured servitude. Indentured servitude was relaced by a brief return to slavery. Slavery was replaced by coal. Coal was replaced by oil. What do all these things have in common? Answer: Cheep energy. What happens when the cheep oil supply runs out?
(And yes, I am aware that the above is a gross over-simplification).

@Jess: You're quite right, there is evidence to suggest that one of the controlling factors in whether an individual ends up with some form of inherited psychopathy is tied to the X-chromosone. Which would indicate that there is something within the genetic code of the X-chromosone that acts as an inhibitor to violent behaviour.

@Eric: We do still divide ourselves into "tribes", but it's usually an adherance to an idea, eg. political affiliation, or by wealth, rather than a geographical or familial division.

[Badlander]

@Eric: We do still divide ourselves into "tribes", but it's usually an adherance to an idea, eg. political affiliation, or by wealth, rather than a geographical or familial division.

I'm highly uncomfortable with that modern, very broad, definition of a tribe. Not all human groups should be called tribes. IMHO a tribe isn't quite the same as a social class, for instance. And nu metal fans aren't a tribe by any means. They're just a bunch of wankers.

[Syberberg]

I'm highly uncomfortable with that modern, very broad, definition of a tribe. Not all human groups should be called tribes. IMHO a tribe isn't quite the same as a social class, for instance. And nu metal fans aren't a tribe by any means. They're just a bunch of wankers.

Re. nu-metal fans

Fair point, particularly if taken form an anthropological POV. Would you be more comfortable with this?

Western society divides itself into pseudo-tribes due to tribalism. (Where tribalism is defined as a strong cultrual or ethnic identity that seeks to separate it's members from the members of another group). The clearest example of this can be seen in the gang cultures of cities like LA and Buenos Aires, or motrocycle clubs like the Hell's Angels or Satan's Slaves.

[Big Si]

Blazes was Thursday and Saturday, The Gemini Thursdays and the upstairs/downstairs was The Arena.

I remember t'other was defo on a Friday night and was a wee 2 floor club up a flight of stairs, just outside of the Cleveland Centre (near the old Our Price Record shop). I'm going back to 1991-1992

That's deffo not The Arena then. I never went out on Friday night in Boro, so I can't help ya on that one mate And it's been nearly 10 years since I wandered around Boro, the map on my head is getting a bit faulty.

Don't remember there being an alternative night at "The Arena" either. They had a great Drum n' Bass night once a month called "On It!" saw some of the greats at that one (A Guy Called Gerald with Normski MC'ing )

[Syberberg]

I remember t'other was defo on a Friday night and was a wee 2 floor club up a flight of stairs, just outside of the Cleveland Centre (near the old Our Price Record shop). I'm going back to 1991-1992

That's deffo not The Arena then. I never went out on Friday night in Boro, so I can't help ya on that one mate And it's been nearly 10 years since I wandered around Boro, the map on my head is getting a bit faulty.

Don't remember there being an alternative night at "The Arena" either. They had a great Drum n' Bass night once a month called "On It!" saw some of the greats at that one (A Guy Called Gerald with Normski MC'ing )

Not an alternative night as such, more like the indie room at Blazes, it was upstairs, where the bands played, downstairs was the dance and chart stuff. Never knew about the D'n'B night though, but then I hardly went to The Arena, I stuck with Blazes. But that was mid-90's, early 90's I was living in Leeds.

[eotunun]

I was very sceptic back in the day when the ghetto was anounced to be the new trendsetter back in the very early 90ies.
Not only for Charly Lagerfeld stealing ideas from street sleepers and selling them for millions without ever paying any tribute to those who inspired him.
..or the folks looking like a bad joke..
The term "respect" was all of a sudden some kind of a sanctuary.
..only to turn out that it was respect in a gang-mentality kind of way.
"I punch your mush harder than you mine, you respect me. You kick my ass harder than I yours, I respect you!"
Add one and a half decades of ape-ish developement of the ideas, and look out of the window.
One might have predicted the outcome.
Some did.
I may be romanticising things a bit, but I feel the pop culture of the eighties was a bit more idealistic and humane with the ideas it transported.

[Syberberg]

I may be romanticising things a bit, but I feel the pop culture of the eighties was a bit more idealistic and humane with the ideas it transported.

Not in Thatcher's Britian it wasn't, the general messege was "Greed is good." A lot of the socio-political/economic theory and policy making decisions at the time were based on Game Theory.

We also had the threat of nuclear war hanging over our heads. Odd thing though, is since the end of the Cold War and the rise of the neocons in America, we seem to be far more likely to end up with an exchange of nukes. Or at least, that's the way it feels sometimes.

[markfiend]

Heh. Indeed.

There's no such thing as society, there are individual men and women and there are families.

That's one of the major roots of today's problems right there. You keep telling people that they're worthless, and sooner or later they'll start to believe you.

[pikkrong]

saw this thread just now. that's awful what people around us are able to do.

[Syberberg]

Heh. Indeed.

There's no such thing as society, there are individual men and women and there are families.

That's one of the major roots of today's problems right there. You keep telling people that they're worthless, and sooner or later they'll start to believe you.

Agreed 100%

[markfiend]

Heh. Indeed.

There's no such thing as society, there are individual men and women and there are families.

That's one of the major roots of today's problems right there. You keep telling people that they're worthless, and sooner or later they'll start to believe you.

Agreed 100%

I was reminded of that quote earlier today; on the BBC Yorkshire local news, they had a soundbite of Dennis Healy (whose 90th birthday it is today) being disgusted by that Thatcher quote.

[Syberberg]

Heh. Indeed. That's one of the major roots of today's problems right there. You keep telling people that they're worthless, and sooner or later they'll start to believe you.

Agreed 100%

I was reminded of that quote earlier today; on the BBC Yorkshire local news, they had a soundbite of Dennis Healy (whose 90th birthday it is today) being disgusted by that Thatcher quote.

Didn't Healy also describe Thatcher's policies as being as one-dimentional and subtle as a cartoon-strip?

[markfiend]

I don't know.

He wasn't a fan, that much I do know.