Giving Vision Thing a chance

Tidal · 03 Sep 2007, 15:44

Today I've decided I've been too narrow for too long in my Sisters songs choice... After listening for Floodland only for quite a while, then First and Last and Always for even longer, I think it's time to give the album that I most despised a chance; Vision Thing.
I always thought it to be too commercial, too cheap, too much plain mainstream rock, too not-the-:von:-I imaged- ; and I never had a clue about the lyrics meanings. So I never listened to the songs as an album, only sometimes putting them in my playlist.
But that was a long time ago, I've learned alot about the Sisters, and today I'm giving it a shot. Vision Thing is worth looking at, I think, and for me it's the least-known about album and era. I'm going to listen to the album for some time and form an opinion.
In the meantime, do you have any anecdotes or general information about vision thing that I should know about? Thanks!

Badlander · 03 Sep 2007, 16:17

Anecdotes ? Well, most if not all Sisters fans hated it when they first heard it back in 1990. Some loved it in the end. That's a natural process.

silentNate · 03 Sep 2007, 16:20

I loved it the moment I heard the beginning to Ribbons- the live gigs made it sound better. tbh I find it a tad over-produced these days though More and I Was Wrong remain favourites.

radiojamaica · 03 Sep 2007, 16:33

Apparently there was no way of getting Eldritch out of the studio. He just kept on doing whatever it was he was doing with the tracks (rerecording/mixing/?) and that took months & months... After all that time of studiowork, he needed weeks just to listen to all those takes again. And in the end they used mostly (little bit) rougher demo versions for the album

Vision Thing is an Eldritch/Bruhn thing in the first place. Bricheno & James joined towards the end of the recording phase.

mh · 03 Sep 2007, 16:38

The rumour I heard is that Von deliberately extended the amount of time spent making the LP, so as to cut down on rehearsal time for the gigs, cos he wanted them (the gigs) to be fairly rough.

Bartek · 03 Sep 2007, 16:41

i started from VT, didn't understood for a few month floodland and a specially- F+L+A tunes, now i now treat each album as other part of the same story,

story

Badlander · 03 Sep 2007, 16:49

mh wrote:The rumour I heard is that Von deliberately extended the amount of time spent making the LP, so as to cut down on rehearsal time for the gigs, cos he wanted them (the gigs) to be fairly rough.

I also heard he didn't want to tour after the release of VT, but had to because making that record had been just too damn expensive and the record company wanted some of its money back.

road_kill · 03 Sep 2007, 16:50

It was the 9 (NINE) months spent in PUK Studios which f**ked the relationship with the record company. And when the record didn't shift the anticipated units it lead directly to the issuing of 2 (TWO) best-of albums in an attempt to recoup the debt.

Tidal · 03 Sep 2007, 16:55

Oh no! Now Von has no record company on his @$$ which means he will take
even longer recording the new album!!!

...

...

radiojamaica · 03 Sep 2007, 16:55

road_kill wrote:And when the record didn't shift the anticipated units it lead directly to the issuing of 2 (TWO) best-of albums in an attempt to recoup the debt.

That worked like a charm... those 2 compilations sold really well.

Tidal · 03 Sep 2007, 16:58

Hey Koen you once told me Andy is less of a myserious dark guy in truth, and wants to make phat rock tunes whenever he gets the chance... and Vision Thing was an example of that?

Badlander · 03 Sep 2007, 16:58

radiojamaica wrote:
road_kill wrote:And when the record didn't shift the anticipated units it lead directly to the issuing of 2 (TWO) best-of albums in an attempt to recoup the debt.
That worked like a charm... those 2 compilations sold really well.

And let's face it : they're not too bad.

Bartek · 03 Sep 2007, 17:24

a specially first one -sgwbm

mh · 03 Sep 2007, 17:56

Well in fairness, almost everyone was expecting Floodland part II. Even More sounded similar in style, with continuity in the Steinman factor, but just with louder guitars in parts. YCBTO was a B side, so no way would anyone expect that it would signify a change of direction.

VT probably failed commercially cos Sisters fans didn't want rawk, and rawk fans didn't want the Sisters.

smiscandlon · 03 Sep 2007, 17:59

mh wrote:Sisters fans didn't want rawk, and rawk fans didn't want the Sisters.

Very succinct. Can we have that quote on the next Heartland T-shirt?

Obviousman · 03 Sep 2007, 19:50

mh wrote:Well in fairness, almost everyone was expecting Floodland part II. Even More sounded similar in style, with continuity in the Steinman factor, but just with louder guitars in parts. YCBTO was a B side, so no way would anyone expect that it would signify a change of direction.

VT probably failed commercially cos Sisters fans didn't want rawk, and rawk fans didn't want the Sisters.

But then again, they weren't expecting Floodland either, were they? And at that time they could even flee towards The m*****n en masse (which a whole lot of people actually did, I think?). And yet Floodland didn't fail.

Think it's more a matter of doing something, either the same or new, which manages to be contemporary and different yet doesn't frighten the following you have too much. Perhaps it would've hit better if he'd gone even harder? I'm CLTing VT and actually it's rather mellow, I find.

Dark · 03 Sep 2007, 20:08

Vision Thing's not bad in parts. When You Don't See Me is the best track, even I Was Wrong isn't too bad. My advice is not to listen to any of the lyrics, just the vocals. Just try and enjoy the songs BEFORE you dissect any.

Tidal · 03 Sep 2007, 20:16

Let me guess: VT is what cracked you up?

Dark · 03 Sep 2007, 20:20

Not at all. It was the last album I bought, and I enjoyed most of it. But then, I'd heard most of it before. And there are a few shoddy tracks, but hey.

Badlander · 03 Sep 2007, 21:51

Obviousman wrote: But then again, they weren't expecting Floodland either, were they?

Sure, but the bridge between guitar-driven gothic rock and synth goth (or whatever you want to call it) already existed, whereas goth felt nothing but contempt for hard-rock and heavy-metal. The equation VT = Bon Jovi was even more true back then than it is now.
Floodland was another side of the Sisters, and also a logical continuation of Gift. Plus Sisters fans knew there was no more guitar player in the band, so it wasn't much of a surprise.
VT on the other hand was seen as nothing short of betrayal.

dinky daisy · 03 Sep 2007, 21:55

Bartoszek wrote:i started from VT, didn't understood for a few month floodland and a specially- F+L+A tunes, now i now treat each album as other part of the same story, story

same here. I banged in with Vision Thing and still it's my pet. I prefer WYDSM instead of Possesion, for instance. But you know it.

mh · 03 Sep 2007, 22:00

Badlander wrote:
Obviousman wrote: But then again, they weren't expecting Floodland either, were they?
Sure, but the bridge between guitar-driven gothic rock and synth goth (or whatever you want to call it) already existed, whereas goth felt nothing but contempt for hard-rock and heavy-metal. The equation VT = Bon Jovi was even more true back then than it is now.
Floodland was another side of the Sisters, and also a logical continuation of Gift. Plus Sisters fans knew there was no more guitar player in the band, so it wasn't much of a surprise.
VT on the other hand was seen as nothing short of betrayal.

Plus VT was more trad-rock (at least in the rocky tracks), rather than a Ministry-style thing, which probably would have been accepted.

nowayjose · 03 Sep 2007, 22:15

I like Vision Thing musically, but what made me cringe at first is the MORE video... I take it as a BonJovi/G'n'R parody -- complete with naff guitar posturing and Slash-style top hat. As that it works perfectly.

After some contemplation, I could imagine that Eldritch might've egged on his "colleagues" to be more "rockish" in the video, thus contributing to the very mockery of their own kind of which they were probably blissfully unaware off. Most likely, however, this is just my imagination.

mh · 03 Sep 2007, 22:28

nowayjose wrote:I like Vision Thing musically, but what made me cringe at first is the MORE video... I take it as a BonJovi/G'n'R parody -- complete with naff guitar posturing and Slash-style top hat. As that it works perfectly.

That's actually what it's meant to be.

nowayjose wrote:After some contemplation, I could imagine that Eldritch might've egged on his "colleagues" to be more "rockish" in the video, thus contributing to the very mockery of their own kind of which they were probably blissfully unaware off. Most likely, however, this is just my imagination.

His colleagues: probably not. Von: most definitely, yes.

Carpathian Psychonaut · 03 Sep 2007, 22:39

I find that if you take the three albums proper, slap them into a playlist and hit "random" you'll find that a large part of VT doesn't grate against the earlier work that much. Some of it, when mixed between F tracks, stands up very well.

The rest of it does badly though and that's what lessens it for me. Maybe he meant it that way? Who knows. It just ends up neither fish nor flesh, if you will. It's like ordering a veggie salad and finding some prime steak in it - both parts are great on their own but not exactly a dish to serve that'll please either camp.

Yes, I know, my metaphor is rubbish but it's just me trying to articulate my thoughts. VT is two good albums mashed together with only the players to unite the two - in my view, anyway.

It gets a run out every now and then but mostly has tracks picked from it - I'd imagine that's the case for many?