This vision Thing thing

[Jim]

It's one big licky lollipop of a record.

That's the best description of a record i've ever heard

[MrChris]

Thank you, I do try.

[Mrs RicheyJames]

Thankyou all for you input. Since Si brought the subject up, what's your take on Floodland? Does it really rate as one of the best albums of the 80s and, if so, why? Once again. Not up for an argument, just trying to catch up on what I've missed.

Definitely best Sisters album until the next one arrives!

Oh No!!! I agree with Si!!!!! HELP!!!!

[Thrash Harry]

AE is on record as saying VT was not meant for an american audience,
it was just that it was written about america politics.

he even stated that if he wanted to make a record for an american
audience, it would have to be instrumental, since "its impossible to say something that wouldn't go over an american persons head".

no offence intended Corppunk - just the words of AE

Yes. Si mentioned this earlier, but can you really believe him? Edlritch that is. I'm sure Si's integrity is unquestionable! Didn't I read somewhere that one of Eldritch's gripes with East West was that they didn't push them enough in the States. If he was so keen to make it there, isn't it possible he adjusted the sound accordingly? His denial and pejorative remarks could be sour grapes, because he didn't have the impact he'd hoped. Just a thought.

[mh]

And a fairly accurate one IMHO. I remember Von saying after the aborted tour with PE that in his opinion America was a "corporate theme park for lunatics" (or something like that) but he liked it cos of the 24-hour topless breakfast bars, and accordingly intended to have another shot at breaking there.

[Thrash Harry]

It's one big licky lollipop of a record.

That's the best description of a record i've ever heard

Indeed it is. Don't mean to keep banging on, but, MrChris, would you like to expand on what makes it so sugary? Others may have heard it before, but I haven't.

[dead stars]

It's one big licky lollipop of a record.

That's the best description of a record i've ever heard

Indeed it is. Don't mean to keep banging on, but, MrChris, would you like to expand on what makes it so sugary? Others may have heard it before, but I haven't.

The epic/mysterious coherence of the atmosphere of the album from the first to the last song.

[dead stars]

Si

Thanks for that.

What do you think of Floodland anyway?

I'd agree that it's their best album, but I'd also have to say that statement doesn't prove much. First And Last was disappointing to say the least.

What?!
Are you sure you don't mean the opposite, NOT disappointing? F&L&A was HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone. It still "inspirates" dozens of bands (not to count the dodgy goth ones).

God, how many albums did it take Pink Floyd before they disappeared into their own navels and he manages it on the first one! At least most of the lyrics in Floodland and Vision Thing aren't about the first person singular.

Is this the reason you find it disappointing?!...
It was the fashion those days! Remember Joy Division, Bauhaus, the Cure, my God, how many more examples do you want? Duran Duran, Madonna?... It was the 80's. The 80's were introspective and psychological. (Thank God!)

[dead stars]

We know they didn't take themselves too seriously, but, presumably, they didn't want to be mocked either. The Goth thing just happened to be around. The Sisters sound was hard to define, they had met at the F club, (apparently the centre of the post-punk alternative scene in Leeds) and Eldritch's vocals just made them prime candidates. They didn't seem to mind at the time. Those Goth girls were sexy as ****! Presumably Ms Morrison's inclusion in the Floodland era videos helped sales, but, unfortunately, enshrined the image that Jo Public now associates them with. It wasn't seen as too much of a problem in the early days as Goth was primarily a fashion statement - both an escape from and reflection of the dullness of life of the dole in early 80s Britain. God knows when all this witchcraft stuff came in. It was never meant to be serious!

Yet you make one of the best descriptions of the goth movement in the 80's I've ever read.

[Thrash Harry]

We know they didn't take themselves too seriously, but, presumably, they didn't want to be mocked either. The Goth thing just happened to be around. The Sisters sound was hard to define, they had met at the F club, (apparently the centre of the post-punk alternative scene in Leeds) and Eldritch's vocals just made them prime candidates. They didn't seem to mind at the time. Those Goth girls were sexy as ****! Presumably Ms Morrison's inclusion in the Floodland era videos helped sales, but, unfortunately, enshrined the image that Jo Public now associates them with. It wasn't seen as too much of a problem in the early days as Goth was primarily a fashion statement - both an escape from and reflection of the dullness of life of the dole in early 80s Britain. God knows when all this witchcraft stuff came in. It was never meant to be serious!

Yet you make one of the best descriptions of the goth movement in the 80's I've ever read.

That's very nice of you, but a bit more than I can handle at the moment. (Just come infrom the pub - you know how it is). I'll get back to you when I've sobered up. It'll be a while! Meanwhile, I'm really gonna go for it!

[Thrash Harry]

Si

Thanks for that.

What do you think of Floodland anyway?

I'd agree that it's their best album, but I'd also have to say that statement doesn't prove much. First And Last was disappointing to say the least.

What?!
Are you sure you don't mean the opposite, NOT disappointing? F&L&A was HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone. It still "inspirates" dozens of bands (not to count the dodgy goth ones).

God, how many albums did it take Pink Floyd before they disappeared into their own navels and he manages it on the first one! At least most of the lyrics in Floodland and Vision Thing aren't about the first person singular.

Is this the reason you find it disappointing?!...
It was the fashion those days! Remember Joy Division, Bauhaus, the Cure, my God, how many more examples do you want? Duran Duran, Madonna?... It was the 80's. The 80's were introspective and psychological. (Thank God!)

Oh dear. You seem to have opened the floodgates now. Leave quickly if you don't want to listen to an old git giving his skew on the early eighties.

Still here? Sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Note our respective birthdays and you'll see why we have different views on that time. When I was the age you were when First And Last came out, I'd just about grown out of Slade and started taking notice of my two elder brothers' record collections - Uriah Heep, Bowie, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple etc. A friend introduced me to Genesis, all the girsl loved Supertramp and Bohemian Rhapsody made everyone notice Queen. Punk pretty much passed me by except for The Jam. Must have been the suits. I fell for them again when The Specials/ Madness/ Selector played Swindon.

I never read the music press, listened to John Peel or watched The Old Grey Whistle Test. Top Of The Pops every Thursday and the top twenty on Sundays. That was about it. Dancing was for girls. The Stray Cats made me want to, but I couldn't anyway. Then I came to Leeds University in 1981 and after a year of standing against the wall clutching my pint I found a dance I could actually do after I'd had enough alcohol to give me the courage to try. Yes, you guessed it. Floorshow, Alice and The Chicken Dance. I'd seen posters for The Sisters, liked the logo and the amusing by-line, but someone told me they were a local metal band. I'd been to an Iron Maiden gig a year earlier and had decided it was a bit too sweaty for me, so this wasn't what I wanted to hear. I didn't even know it was them I was dancing to until a better informed mate told me!

Anyway, I liked the songs, they were a local band (allegedly) and you've got to support your local team haven't you? It also meant I could engage with a section of the local community, or at least bump into them on the Warehouse/ Phono dancefloor without getting a slap. I preferred the Phono cos it was cheaper, less fashion police and no expectations. Just lager and music I could dance to. The Cramps, B52s, Billy Idol, Pete Shelley, Cabaret Voltaire, Theatre Of Hate, Spear Of Destiny, Siouxsie and The Sisters are the ones that come immediately to mind. The Warehouse was better for Temple Of Love cos you needed a bigger dancefloor to do it justice - a triumphant slamdance. I didn't mind getting sweaty then!

So, you see, The Sisters were a dance band to me. Body And Soul was a big let down after the "now you must see what we've been banging on about" of Temple, apart from the excellent re-working of Body Electric - I had missed it first time round, in fact I'm not even sure I knew it was a re-release until I bought Some Girls and was disappointed to hear the original. Walk Away was better, the drums are kicking, but the lyrics were starting to get too maudlin or simply repetitive. On reflection this started with Temple and Heartland I guess - the latter particulalry. How many times does he repeat that word? Even The Police didn't go that far!

Finally got to see them live in October 84 and, though it was a somewhat spiritual occasion for me, I have to agree with Eldritch's description in Some Girls. I recognised Alice and Floorshow straight away, but they got half way into Body Electric before I'd realised. Emma was very good, but I was expecting it as my mate's had seen them in May (I was in France as part of my modern languages degree). And no Temple! Or maybe they had. Perhaps I'd missed it in the din. No, the place would have been shaking if they'd played that, surely.

So, I would summarize by saying that if you were male and old enough to go clubbing in the early 80's, it was the time when lads discovered that dancing was fun and you didn't need an air guitar. I would suggest that the rave culture of the late 80s bears this out.

P.S. I quite like Duran Duran's first album. It was one of the few my roommate and I could agree on when I first moved to Leeds. It was that or Christopher Cross. I don't think they were forced to change their sound anywhere near as much as Spandau Ballet. Listen to Journeys To Glory and ask youself how they ever got to singing "Gold". Simple Minds and Human League changed an awful lot before they "made it", but I think you can see the progression. I'm not so sure with the Spandau boys.

Thankyou for listening. You've been a lovely audience. I must do my tax return now. Can't put it off any longer. I hope their website's not overloaded.

[pikkrong]

Si

Thanks for that.
I'd agree that it's their best album, but I'd also have to say that statement doesn't prove much. First And Last was disappointing to say the least.

What?!
Are you sure you don't mean the opposite, NOT disappointing? F&L&A was HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone. It still "inspirates" dozens of bands (not to count the dodgy goth ones).

God, how many albums did it take Pink Floyd before they disappeared into their own navels and he manages it on the first one! At least most of the lyrics in Floodland and Vision Thing aren't about the first person singular.

Is this the reason you find it disappointing?!...
It was the fashion those days! Remember Joy Division, Bauhaus, the Cure, my God, how many more examples do you want? Duran Duran, Madonna?... It was the 80's. The 80's were introspective and psychological. (Thank God!)

Oh dear. You seem to have opened the floodgates now. Leave quickly if you don't want to listen to an old git giving his skew on the early eighties.

Still here? Sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin. Note our respective birthdays and you'll see why we have different views on that time. When I was the age you were when First And Last came out, I'd just about grown out of Slade and started taking notice of my two elder brothers' record collections - Uriah Heep, Bowie, Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Deep Purple etc. A friend introduced me to Genesis, all the girsl loved Supertramp and Bohemian Rhapsody made everyone notice Queen. Punk pretty much passed me by except for The Jam. Must have been the suits. I fell for them again when The Specials/ Madness/ Selector played Swindon.

I never read the music press, listened to John Peel or watched The Old Grey Whistle Test. Top Of The Pops every Thursday and the top twenty on Sundays. That was about it. Dancing was for girls. The Stray Cats made me want to, but I couldn't anyway. Then I came to Leeds University in 1981 and after a year of standing against the wall clutching my pint I found a dance I could actually do after I'd had enough alcohol to give me the courage to try. Yes, you guessed it. Floorshow, Alice and The Chicken Dance. I'd seen posters for The Sisters, liked the logo and the amusing by-line, but someone told me they were a local metal band. I'd been to an Iron Maiden gig a year earlier and had decided it was a bit too sweaty for me, so this wasn't what I wanted to hear. I didn't even know it was them I was dancing to until a better informed mate told me!

Anyway, I liked the songs, they were a local band (allegedly) and you've got to support your local team haven't you? It also meant I could engage with a section of the local community, or at least bump into them on the Warehouse/ Phono dancefloor without getting a slap. I preferred the Phono cos it was cheaper, less fashion police and no expectations. Just lager and music I could dance to. The Cramps, B52s, Billy Idol, Pete Shelley, Cabaret Voltaire, Theatre Of Hate, Spear Of Destiny, Siouxsie and The Sisters are the ones that come immediately to mind. The Warehouse was better for Temple Of Love cos you needed a bigger dancefloor to do it justice - a triumphant slamdance. I didn't mind getting sweaty then!

So, you see, The Sisters were a dance band to me. Body And Soul was a big let down after the "now you must see what we've been banging on about" of Temple, apart from the excellent re-working of Body Electric - I had missed it first time round, in fact I'm not even sure I knew it was a re-release until I bought Some Girls and was disappointed to hear the original. Walk Away was better, the drums are kicking, but the lyrics were starting to get too maudlin or simply repetitive. On reflection this started with Temple and Heartland I guess - the latter particulalry. How many times does he repeat that word? Even The Police didn't go that far!

Finally got to see them live in October 84 and, though it was a somewhat spiritual occasion for me, I have to agree with Eldritch's description in Some Girls. I recognised Alice and Floorshow straight away, but they got half way into Body Electric before I'd realised. Emma was very good, but I was expecting it as my mate's had seen them in May (I was in France as part of my modern languages degree). And no Temple! Or maybe they had. Perhaps I'd missed it in the din. No, the place would have been shaking if they'd played that, surely.

So, I would summarize by saying that if you were male and old enough to go clubbing in the early 80's, it was the time when lads discovered that dancing was fun and you didn't need an air guitar. I would suggest that the rave culture of the late 80s bears this out.

P.S. I quite like Duran Duran's first album. It was one of the few my roommate and I could agree on when I first moved to Leeds. It was that or Christopher Cross. I don't think they were forced to change their sound anywhere near as much as Spandau Ballet. Listen to Journeys To Glory and ask youself how they ever got to singing "Gold". Simple Minds and Human League changed an awful lot before they "made it", but I think you can see the progression. I'm not so sure with the Spandau boys.

Thankyou for listening. You've been a lovely audience. I must do my tax return now. Can't put it off any longer. I hope their website's not overloaded.

thanks for that. was interesting

[Thrash Harry]

Thankyou. You're too kind.

Just discovered I can't do my tax return online til they send me a PID through the post so I've time for the late 80s early 90s now.

Only kidding. Your safe there. I was too busy working and parenting to notice. I didn't buy any new records after Gift until What's The Story, just compilations and CDs of the vinyl I'd had to sell during my student years to support my cigarette and alcohol habits. Maybe someone else would like to share their experience of the Floodland and Vision Thing eras? I've got a lot of catching up to do.

[dead stars]

So, you see, The Sisters were a dance band to me.

Well, if you put it that way, in the sense that you couldn't dance to anything else yourself at the time...

But remember the rest of the people would hardly agree with that statement. I was in fact a lot younger and it was easier for me at the time to dance to Duran Duran...
On the contrary, the Sisters were a band to listen in your room with the lights off while cursing your miserable teenage existence. So yes, it's a different perspective.

But I still don't get why did you feel disppointed with F&L&A. Not danceable enough?...

[Thrash Harry]

On the contrary, the Sisters were a band to listen in your room with the lights off while cursing your miserable teenage existence. So yes, it's a different perspective.

Praise the Lord. The fog's lifted abd I can see! Why didn't you say beofre. Teenage angst. Now I understand. First And Last for you, Dark Side Of The Moon for me. The question is, was it meant to make you feel better or worse? DSOTM generally made me feel better. I used to listen to Bat Out Of Hell if I wanted to wallow in it.

But I still don't get why did you feel disppointed with F&L&A. Not danceable enough?...

Yes. Not danceable enough. But, hey. Why use three words when a short story will do. I just found it very dull. Joy Division did dull. The Sisters didn't. The Reptile House was all I needed for those falling asleep moments. The only memorable lyric was "The Devil may care but I don't mind". However, the CD sounds much brighter than the vinyl ever did. Was it re-mastered or is that just a feature of CDs? Or am I just getting duller!

[hallucienate]

The CD was taken from the Japanese mix of FALAA, the original mixes were "lost".

[moonchild]

What?!
Are you sure you don't mean the opposite, NOT disappointing? F&L&A was HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone.

I agree with you. For me it's the best album of TSOM. It's really marvellous.

[Thrash Harry]

The CD was taken from the Japanese mix of FALAA, the original mixes were "lost".

That might explain it then. Is the CD generally considered to be "livelier" than the original vinyl?

[Thrash Harry]

What?!
Are you sure you don't mean the opposite, NOT disappointing? F&L&A was HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone.

I agree with you. For me it's the best album of TSOM. It's really marvellous.

Just had a thought. What do you reckon Eldritch listened to during those "teenage angst" moments. My money's on Aladdin Sane. Always been my favourite Bowie album.

[hallucienate]

The CD was taken from the Japanese mix of FALAA, the original mixes were "lost".

That might explain it then. Is the CD generally considered to be "livelier" than the original vinyl?

I dunno, they both have really bad production IMHO. These days i prefer to listen to the vinyl version as I think that version of FALAA (the song) is way better.

The CD was also remastered in 1992.

[Big Si]

Thankyou all for you input. Since Si brought the subject up, what's your take on Floodland? Does it really rate as one of the best albums of the 80s and, if so, why? Once again. Not up for an argument, just trying to catch up on what I've missed.

Definitely best Sisters album until the next one arrives!

Oh No!!! I agree with Si!!!!! HELP!!!!

Then don't quote me and tell everyone else! HIPPY!

[dead stars]

What?!
Are you sure you don't mean the opposite, NOT disappointing? F&L&A was HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone.

I agree with you. For me it's the best album of TSOM. It's really marvellous.

Not the best in my opinion, no. Although "F&L&A" is HUGE, marvellous, a mile-stone, "Floodland" is genius, breath taking, hypnotic, addictive. Till the next one comes along, this is by far my favourite album EVER.

[dead stars]

Just had a thought. What do you reckon Eldritch listened to during those "teenage angst" moments.

That's a very interesting question for that "What question would you ask Eldritch?" thread.
I have no idea! Not even the slightest hint. He is a lot older. If we point the stage of "teenage angst" to start at 15, it was 1974. Now, what was there in 1974 to feel "down/angry" with?
Janis Joplin?
Leonard Cohen?

Can anyway express teenage angst with Leonard Cohen?

[Silver_Owl]

Can you imagine being a teenager and forced to listen to dear old Mr Cohen? I have to say I do like him now I am (coughs) slightly more mature.

I think, however, it is a safe bet to assume favourites on Eldritchs stereo would be;
Joy Division, Iggy & The Stooges, Suicide and The MC5.

Case closed.(?)

[dead stars]

On the contrary, the Sisters were a band to listen in your room with the lights off while cursing your miserable teenage existence. So yes, it's a different perspective.

Praise the Lord. The fog's lifted abd I can see! Why didn't you say beofre. Teenage angst. Now I understand. First And Last for you, Dark Side Of The Moon for me. The question is, was it meant to make you feel better or worse? DSOTM generally made me feel better. I used to listen to Bat Out Of Hell if I wanted to wallow in it.

Better or worse?... Maybe both. Sometimes listening to someone else's despair makes you forget your own. Besides, misery seeks company.

Something interesting though is that I simply can't listen to F&L&A anymore. I mean, I can listen to the songs in a gig or bar but I don't listen to it at home anymore.
It was, and still is, bloody depressive!
People can say it was all about the clothes and smoke but it wasn't. The depressive lyrics had a lot to do with the labelling of the Sisters with the goth movement.

Floodland has a depressive background too but a lot more subtle.

But the time of Vision Thing Eldritch managed to cast that gloominess away - at what cost, dearests, at what cost! Almost convinced me it wasn't my band anymore.
But the truth is you don't get depressed simply by listening to it, something I suspect is bound to happen with First&Last.
So i can admit by the time of Vision Thing Eldritch managed to become hard rock and not goth.

The future (present)... Well, the new songs... Let's face it, the depressive lyrics are back.
The only way Eldritch is going to get rid of the goth label is to write "happy" songs.
The thing is, can he?...

For starters, he should listen to Madonna's "Shanti".
Great album, "ray of light"!