Why go through the charade of trying to write songs and recording demos for an album he had no intention of making? Couldn't he have just split the band there and then?(This is my first post, by the way, so be gentle with me!
)The 1985 split
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metal on metal
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In a Melody Maker interview around the time of Floodland, Eldritch claimed that he titled the Albert Hall gig "Wake" some time before it actually happened "and the others are still probably wondering why" (I don't have the copy to hand so I'm paraphrasing there). In this light, the "thank you ... and GOODBYE" at the end of the Wake video would seem to suggest that he did see this gig as an ending of sorts. I've always been confused by this picture of events, though, as the band did try to write songs for the second album in Hamburg afterwards, which is when Hussey and Adams walked out. So ... had Eldritch decided to end the band long before the split happened? Did he engineer a situation where a split was inevitable? It all seems a bit Machiavellian, most unlike the man's public persona Why go through the charade of trying to write songs and recording demos for an album he had no intention of making? Couldn't he have just split the band there and then?
(This is my first post, by the way, so be gentle with me! )
Why go through the charade of trying to write songs and recording demos for an album he had no intention of making? Couldn't he have just split the band there and then?(This is my first post, by the way, so be gentle with me!
)This is a hard one, cus all we know about what happened is what either Eldritch or Hussey have said. Rumour has it Von refused to sing any of Husseys songs and with that Craig also somewhat annoyed by the musical direction that Eldritch was heading down, walked out. Hussey then left a day or so later, with a view that he would still record the guitar for the new album. Then all the sisterhood stuff kicked off and put an end to that idea.
It has also been rumoured that the split/sisterhood saga was engineered between Eldritch and Hussey, So that Hussey's new group would get lots of publicity and Eldritch would get an advance from he record company.
I don't think we will ever really know what went on, cus both Eldritch and Hussey don't strike me as being reliable sources. Given the amount of drugs they were taking at the time, I'm surprised they can remember much of what went on themselves.
Just another point Patricia M. must have gone through the charade of recording the bass for Floodland only for Eldritch 'alledgedly' getting someone else in to record it. Funny how part of the settlement on that was Pat is not allowed to talk about the outcome, makes me think she won!
It has also been rumoured that the split/sisterhood saga was engineered between Eldritch and Hussey, So that Hussey's new group would get lots of publicity and Eldritch would get an advance from he record company.
I don't think we will ever really know what went on, cus both Eldritch and Hussey don't strike me as being reliable sources. Given the amount of drugs they were taking at the time, I'm surprised they can remember much of what went on themselves.
Just another point Patricia M. must have gone through the charade of recording the bass for Floodland only for Eldritch 'alledgedly' getting someone else in to record it. Funny how part of the settlement on that was Pat is not allowed to talk about the outcome, makes me think she won!
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Syberberg
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Welcome to HL metal on metal.
The '85 split turned into a rather nasty affair, but had seemingly been simmering from when Wayne joined after Ben Gunn left.
One rumour (from road crew) that I've heard is that during the Black October Tour, Gary approached Andrew and said: "It's either him or me." The "him" in question being Wayne.
The stories about Andrew not being prepared to sing any of Wayne's lyrics is fairly well documented from both sides, so I'd take that as being fairly true.
There's an excellent interview from issue 6 of UTR with Andrew about the former members which might be helpful. Start here.
The '85 split turned into a rather nasty affair, but had seemingly been simmering from when Wayne joined after Ben Gunn left.
One rumour (from road crew) that I've heard is that during the Black October Tour, Gary approached Andrew and said: "It's either him or me." The "him" in question being Wayne.
The stories about Andrew not being prepared to sing any of Wayne's lyrics is fairly well documented from both sides, so I'd take that as being fairly true.
There's an excellent interview from issue 6 of UTR with Andrew about the former members which might be helpful. Start here.
I don't necessarily agree with everything I think.
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DOZMEISTER
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From what i remember it was mentioned in the press releases for the Albert Hall gig that for one of them it would be their last gig.
I'm sure I've read somewhere that Gary Marx was due to come back and play that show as his final gig with the band, maybe that was relating to him?DOZMEISTER wrote:From what i remember it was mentioned in the press releases for the Albert Hall gig that for one of them it would be their last gig.
I've certainly heard the "him or me" rumours many times. But why would AE give the Albert Hall gig two names? Wasn't it billed as Altamont: A Festival Of Remembrance? Why also name it Wake beforehand? I'd always assumed the name of the video came later as an allusion to the split.
As for AE refusing to sing Wayne's lyrics; he at least tried them out on the demos. (And, to be fair, his voice and those songs just don't go together. Both are good individually but they don't match up. Plus, it would have left him not contributing anything to the songwriting. But I digress.)
Both AE and Wayne have given different accounts of the split at various times. Sometimes it was amicable to begin with (musical differences) and only turned nasty after the Sisterhood argument. Other times the whole Sisterhood thing was deliberately calculated to annoy AE. And at others Craig walked out because AE wouldn't even touch Wayne's songs (see above) and Wayne left next day because AE said he'd finally got rid of the driftwood. In this latter account, they pretty much never got on and didn't talk to each other while making the album. And yet, on the Lighting The candles DVD, Wayne insists that, contrary to popular opinion, he really enjoyed his time in the Sisters.
The whole Floodland bass story doesn't sound very convincing either. How could he not have known she couldn't play? Who played instead? And how did she manage to play for all those other bands? In fact, why would she have complained about not getting a credit if she didn't play? It's not as if any of the other performers (AE included) were actually credited either, and she was the one appearing in all the videos and photos and sleeves and TV shows and interviews.
As for AE refusing to sing Wayne's lyrics; he at least tried them out on the demos. (And, to be fair, his voice and those songs just don't go together. Both are good individually but they don't match up. Plus, it would have left him not contributing anything to the songwriting. But I digress.)
Both AE and Wayne have given different accounts of the split at various times. Sometimes it was amicable to begin with (musical differences) and only turned nasty after the Sisterhood argument. Other times the whole Sisterhood thing was deliberately calculated to annoy AE. And at others Craig walked out because AE wouldn't even touch Wayne's songs (see above) and Wayne left next day because AE said he'd finally got rid of the driftwood. In this latter account, they pretty much never got on and didn't talk to each other while making the album. And yet, on the Lighting The candles DVD, Wayne insists that, contrary to popular opinion, he really enjoyed his time in the Sisters.
The whole Floodland bass story doesn't sound very convincing either. How could he not have known she couldn't play? Who played instead? And how did she manage to play for all those other bands? In fact, why would she have complained about not getting a credit if she didn't play? It's not as if any of the other performers (AE included) were actually credited either, and she was the one appearing in all the videos and photos and sleeves and TV shows and interviews.
Any more of that and we'll be round your front door with the quick-setting whitewash and the shaved monkey.
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robertzombie
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I assume that if it wasn't Pat on bass it was probably Eldritch seeing as he can play the instrument.
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metal on metal
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Thanks for the link, Syberberg. and thanks for the welcome. Nice to be here! That's an unusually candid interview with him there, although I'm still none the wiser about whether he planned the split lol.
Yeah, I think the Albert Hall gig was indeed billed as Altamont: A Festival of Remembrance, stufarq. I seem to recall seeing a music paper advert which featured this, although my mind may be playing tricks. I'm just referring to what Eldritch said in that MM interview, which implies that he saw the gig as the end of the road. Maybe he was just telling porkies!
Regarding Patricia Morrison, surely she could play, as she'd done so with other bands such as the Gun Club? And surely Andrew Eldritch knew this, as the Sisters had played with that band? It seems a bit odd to hire a bass player (even if it was just to present the semblance of a band to keep the record company happy) and then just have her in the studio for "moral support". As she was there, why not give her the bass and let her get on with it? He talks about delegation and others not pulling their weight in that UTR interview so that would be one less job for him, at least!
Yeah, I think the Albert Hall gig was indeed billed as Altamont: A Festival of Remembrance, stufarq. I seem to recall seeing a music paper advert which featured this, although my mind may be playing tricks. I'm just referring to what Eldritch said in that MM interview, which implies that he saw the gig as the end of the road. Maybe he was just telling porkies!
Regarding Patricia Morrison, surely she could play, as she'd done so with other bands such as the Gun Club? And surely Andrew Eldritch knew this, as the Sisters had played with that band? It seems a bit odd to hire a bass player (even if it was just to present the semblance of a band to keep the record company happy) and then just have her in the studio for "moral support". As she was there, why not give her the bass and let her get on with it? He talks about delegation and others not pulling their weight in that UTR interview so that would be one less job for him, at least!
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markfiend
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Quite frankly, I think that the Patsy Didn't Play On Floodland story is bullcrap.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
"The Internet is allergic to truth, reason and humour."
Now look where we are at the moment.
I guess most of the stories about the band(s) are mainly made up. The "stars" drop flares to maintain their privacy. Like Andrew's shades. I put stars in clamps as we talk about people who are stars to us, which is a group of well over a million rock fans and g*ffs and what other corner this fancommunity collects the member as it rolls by. But there's not enough of us for all the bands to really make a living on. See here.
I have no difficulty at all understanding why someone would trick people into believe stuff that's untrue. If a successfull musician who sold millions of albums has to shake every customer's hand, he doesn't get to scratch his own buttocks anymore. When our stars work elswhere or are privately in public, they want to be able to do that in normal lifes. Thus give the heat seakers of fans and press some flares to keep them busy.
Now look where we are at the moment.
I guess most of the stories about the band(s) are mainly made up. The "stars" drop flares to maintain their privacy. Like Andrew's shades. I put stars in clamps as we talk about people who are stars to us, which is a group of well over a million rock fans and g*ffs and what other corner this fancommunity collects the member as it rolls by. But there's not enough of us for all the bands to really make a living on. See here.
I have no difficulty at all understanding why someone would trick people into believe stuff that's untrue. If a successfull musician who sold millions of albums has to shake every customer's hand, he doesn't get to scratch his own buttocks anymore. When our stars work elswhere or are privately in public, they want to be able to do that in normal lifes. Thus give the heat seakers of fans and press some flares to keep them busy.
"These are my principles! And if you don't like the just says so, I have others, too!"
~Rufus T. Firefly
~Rufus T. Firefly
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smiscandlon
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Never heard them called "clamps" before. Is that a German thing?
анархия
Umm.. 
A krautsch tanslation error one. Try brackets instead. 
Brackets and clamps are the same in german. ("Klammer") I always get trapped by that mistake.
A krautsch tanslation error one. Try brackets instead. Brackets and clamps are the same in german. ("Klammer") I always get trapped by that mistake.
"These are my principles! And if you don't like the just says so, I have others, too!"
~Rufus T. Firefly
~Rufus T. Firefly
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smiscandlon
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No, these are brackets -> ( )eotunun wrote:Umm..
Brackets and clamps are the same in german. ("Klammer") I always get trapped by that mistake.
We usually call "" quotation marks or inverted commas.
Edit: For what it's worth, I prefer clamps.
"nipple"
анархия
Okay, we are talking about a goof, not a translation error.
Can anyone tell me where I get a better brain, please?
"These are my principles! And if you don't like the just says so, I have others, too!"
~Rufus T. Firefly
~Rufus T. Firefly
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Spiggy's hat
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stufarq wrote:I've certainly heard the "him or me" rumours many times. But why would AE give the Albert Hall gig two names? Wasn't it billed as Altamont: A Festival Of Remembrance?
Give me one good reason
Back in the days when a pint of Beer was less than a Pound!robertzombie wrote:£5.30!
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James Blast
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I fancy a pint, soon, like this Friday. Ab'dy else?
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
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Family commitments on the wrong side of the borderJames Blast wrote:I fancy a pint, soon, like this Friday. Ab'dy else?
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James Blast
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Erse!
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
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MadameButterfly
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Oi! You boys take that chatter to PM's please!
Back on topic with regards to the 1985 split....
Back on topic with regards to the 1985 split....
it's all about circles and spirals
that ongoing eternity
that ongoing eternity
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James Blast
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... and just what does a girl know about it?
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
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MadameButterfly
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....well that I'm in the Patsy camp as she provided some lovely years which made the Sisters look good! 
girls know more than we let onto you know....
girls know more than we let onto you know....
it's all about circles and spirals
that ongoing eternity
that ongoing eternity
Which is still a helluva lot less than the huge and absurd amount us blokes give you credit forMadameButterfly wrote:....well that I'm in the Patsy camp as she provided some lovely years which made the Sisters look good!
girls know more than we let onto you know....
