Pope Benedict XVI visits the USA

19 Apr 2008, 12:33

P Z Myers wrote:There's an evil tableau for you: the callous torturer stands up with blood on his hands and a lie in his teeth, while the priest draped in gilt reassures him of his righteousness. How often has that scene played out in history, I wonder?

Discuss.

Hexe Luciferia · 19 Apr 2008, 12:47

markfiend wrote:
P Z Myers wrote:There's an evil tableau for you: the callous torturer stands up with blood on his hands and a lie in his teeth, while the priest draped in gilt reassures him of his righteousness. How often has that scene played out in history, I wonder?
Discuss.

I've made of anti-clericalism one of the very few stable points in my absurd life.
I don't want to sound offensive to anyone who truely believes in God or in the Pope (which has always been almost the same thing; actually, there's a lot more of people who believes in the Pope rather than God...anyway, moving on) but I have no faith and trust whatsoever in the Church and his representatives.
True, I was born in -possibly- the catholic country par excellence, but I've never saw the Pope as a "spiritual leader". More of a dictator, to my point of view. Lies and blood - exactly what always characterized Chatolic "policy" from the very beginning. There would be a lot more to say about the subject and how things went through the course of history "thank" to the "ideas" of those people (all the various Popes, the various Bishops and even the "normal" priests...)
I'll cut it here, sorry guys, I do apologise for this rant but everytime I see the Pope and his ..eerr "partners in crime" I lose my temper.
Didn't mean to cause any offence.
Sorry again.

19 Apr 2008, 12:55

IMO In a sane world Schatzi-Ratzi would be in jail for his part in covering up paedophilia among his priests.

Hexe Luciferia · 19 Apr 2008, 12:58

markfiend wrote:IMO In a sane world Schatzi-Ratzi would be in jail for his part in covering up paedophilia among his priests.

Absolutely.

Obviousman · 19 Apr 2008, 13:04

Scrolling down rather fast and seeing the Simpsons are dead, for one second, well, you can see what I was thinking

EvilBastard · 19 Apr 2008, 16:04

If the head of the catholic church wants to come to my town then I don't have a problem with it. I ignore him when he's at the Vatican, I ignore him when he's here.
What does p*ss me off is that he's accorded all the honours due a visiting head of state (yes, I know that technically he is a head of state, but the Vatican is hardly part of the coalition of the willing, now is it?) and that MY tax dollars are going to pay for his security. Surely if he was that close to god he'd have his own, much more effective, bodyguard...

And the fact he covered up the paedo-priests means he's dog-$hit in my book.

sultan2075 · 19 Apr 2008, 16:30

I'm not a religious man, but I like Benedict XVI; he is a deep thinker, more at home I suspect in the classroom and library than in the halls of power. I've read his book on St. Bonaventure's philosophy of history, and it was most illuminating. More to the point, though, I think his Regensburg address (the one that gave rise to the "Behead the Pope for insulting Islam" signs) laid out quite starkly the central issue in the conflict between Islam and the west in a way that precious few other thinkers could have done. It also arguably had the advantage of providing a demonstration of that very issue, though I don't think he had that in mind

stufarq · 19 Apr 2008, 18:25

[quote="Hexe Luciferia"] anyone who truely believes in God or in the Pope (which has always been almost the same thing; actually, there's a lot more of people who believes in the Pope rather than God...quote]
Er, neither statement is remotely true. Even if we're specifically talking about the Christian God, only Roman Catholics have any allegiance to the Pope (I'm not even going to bother getting into the simplistic statement that they believe him to be God), the many other denominations having no belief whatsoever in the Papacy.

Hexe Luciferia · 19 Apr 2008, 18:56

stufarq wrote:
Hexe Luciferia wrote: anyone who truely believes in God or in the Pope (which has always been almost the same thing; actually, there's a lot more of people who believes in the Pope rather than God...quote]
Er, neither statement is remotely true. Even if we're specifically talking about the Christian God, only Roman Catholics have any allegiance to the Pope (I'm not even going to bother getting into the simplistic statement that they believe him to be God), the many other denominations having no belief whatsoever in the Papacy.
Sorry, I was referring to the roman catholics. I know about the fact that there are many other denominations who don't give a toss about the Pope.
Absolutely, I put it down into a very simplistic way - but only because I don't really want to get into a discussion on religion and not being a native English speaker my brain gets tangled and I -unfortunately- have the need to resize things down and this frustrates me a lot.
That said, what I wrote, in a very messy and non explantory way, remains just my point of view, obviously. I'm not saying I'm right or wrong, just expressing a general feeling on the whole Pope/Roman Catholic issue and trying to play nice and fair.

EvilBastard · 19 Apr 2008, 21:30

Harry Blackitt wrote:Look at them, bloody Catholics, filling the bloody world up with bloody people they can't afford to bloody feed.

Sorry, but I have to agree - there is nothing quite so distasteful as watching the Roman Catholic Church espouse and preach the kind of backward religious cant that has successfully kept large parts of the world in abject grinding poverty.

6FeetOver · 20 Apr 2008, 17:20

markfiend wrote:
P Z Myers wrote:There's an evil tableau for you: the callous torturer stands up with blood on his hands and a lie in his teeth, while the priest draped in gilt reassures him of his righteousness. How often has that scene played out in history, I wonder?
Discuss.

No thanks. I really don't care.

eotunun · 21 Apr 2008, 11:27

sultan2075 wrote:I'm not a religious man, but I like Benedict XVI; he is a deep thinker, more at home I suspect in the classroom and library than in the halls of power.

A thinker who supports the revival of exorcism.
Where in the world will a normal citizen end after waving crosses at others and shouting at invisible beeings to jog on?
At the moment I can't think of many more places to look for such behaviour than rubber cells.

sultan2075 · 21 Apr 2008, 12:04

eotunun wrote:
sultan2075 wrote:I'm not a religious man, but I like Benedict XVI; he is a deep thinker, more at home I suspect in the classroom and library than in the halls of power.
A thinker who supports the revival of exorcism.
Where in the world will a normal citizen end after waving crosses at others and shouting at invisible beeings to jog on?
At the moment I can't think of many more places to look for such behaviour than rubber cells.

I'm going to guess you've never actually read a word he's written.

You do realize that the Church only allows that as an absolute last resort, after a massive battery of medical tests has ruled out physiological or psychological factors as causative of the behavior, right? The official attitude is actually summed up very well by that episode of the Simpsons where they dig up the skeleton of an 'angel' in Springfield. Word of it reaches Rome, and when the Pope is informed, his response is 'Eh, keep an eye on it.'

eotunun · 21 Apr 2008, 12:41

Don't worry, Sultan. Ratzi and his pal Cardinal Meisner entertained the german church tax payers long enough with scandals aroused by their ultraconservative blurp. See your signature for a great quotation towards what I think about them.

Why should the government tax the hell out of me so that it can wipe your ass from the cradle to the grave?

Oh: And what will the church do if their exorcist reaches the point where he (after carefully reading renowned ancient books of wisdom and carefully excluded al other possibilities) understands (by use of analytic methods) that he deals with a *real* witch, a personification of Satan? Clutch at the last straw? I mean, bundle of straws? Use some lighter against the personified darkness of the evil only known to monotheistic cults?
How long is the half-life period of the memory for religiously inspired mass murder? Remember the sixteenth century and its aftermath? Today's exorcists are the inheritants of that!

sultan2075 · 21 Apr 2008, 13:19

eotunun wrote:Don't worry, Sultan. Ratzi and his pal Cardinal Meisner entertained the german church tax payers long enough with scandals aroused by their ultraconservative blurp. See your signature for a great quotation towards what I think about them.
Why should the government tax the hell out of me so that it can wipe your ass from the cradle to the grave?
Oh: And what will the church do if their exorcist reaches the point where he (after carefully reading renowned ancient books of wisdom and carefully excluded al other possibilities) understands (by use of analytic methods) that he deals with a *real* witch, a personification of Satan? Clutch at the last straw? I mean, bundle of straws? Use some lighter against the personified darkness of the evil only known to monotheistic cults?
How long is the half-life period of the memory for religiously inspired mass murder? Remember the sixteenth century and its aftermath? Today's exorcists are the inheritants of that!

I'm not going to bother with this conversation any more.