I don't think that the government is that competent. Look how quickly the Watergate conspiracy fell apart / came out.
If there is genuinely a massive conspiracy controlling everything, then it's so powerful that we can do nothing about it.
In which case it's pointless to worry about it.
Were the Apollo Moon landings a hoax?
- weebleswobble
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They're chavs?moses wrote:I don't worry about it at all. I don't even worry about invasions from little green men in silver track suits
‎"We will wear some very loud shirts. We will wear some very wrong trousers."
- Izzy HaveMercy
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All your Glesga base are belong to usweebleswobble wrote:They're chavs?moses wrote:I don't worry about it at all. I don't even worry about invasions from little green men in silver track suits
IZ.
- markfiend
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If an extra-terrestrial intelligence ever did come visiting (IMO unlikely but not impossible) I would expect the evidence to be better than what we have:stufarq wrote:What, the moon? Then what did we land on? Oh, I see. That proves it then.markfiend wrote:In all probability, it was a weather balloon.moses wrote:any views on the Roswell 'Conspiracy'?
- Unreliable and contradictory "eyewitness" "testimony", including "death-bed confessions"
- Second- and third-hand accounts, often filtered through "true believers"
- Blurred photographs and camcorder footage that, on analysis, prove to be well-known and well-understood aerial phenomena. (Including, but not limited to: birds, known aircraft, meteors, planets, stars, the moon...)
- Abduction reports gained through "hypnotic regression" -- which is little better than guided fantasy
- Out and out hoaxes
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
- moses
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In total agreementmarkfiend wrote:If an extra-terrestrial intelligence ever did come visiting (IMO unlikely but not impossible) I would expect the evidence to be better than what we have:stufarq wrote:What, the moon? Then what did we land on? Oh, I see. That proves it then.markfiend wrote: In all probability, it was a weather balloon.Now I firmly believe that extra-terrestrial intelligence is (in all probability) out there somewhere. But if they were here there would be better evidence than this.
- Unreliable and contradictory "eyewitness" "testimony", including "death-bed confessions"
- Second- and third-hand accounts, often filtered through "true believers"
- Blurred photographs and camcorder footage that, on analysis, prove to be well-known and well-understood aerial phenomena. (Including, but not limited to: birds, known aircraft, meteors, planets, stars, the moon...)
- Abduction reports gained through "hypnotic regression" -- which is little better than guided fantasy
- Out and out hoaxes
- markfiend
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Funny thing is, in my youth, I was a total UFO believer, Erich von Däniken, the lot. Over the years, I've modified my opinion better to fit the evidence.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
- culprit
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You're so right, mr.F.markfiend wrote:Funny thing is, in my youth, I was a total UFO believer, Erich von Däniken, the lot. Over the years, I've modified my opinion better to fit the evidence.
I think it's a combination of-
a) WANTING to believe in it/them.
b) Not trusting that everyone else knows best.
You are allowed to be like that. That's what teenagers are for!
I was exactly the same, but after a while you realise that there just is no evidence. I read everything, went to seminars, etc, but after a while your logic chip cuts in and you suddenly realise that there's NOTHING anyone can show that is evidence.
Saying that, I'm not doubting that some people feel they experienced something, I'm thinking of the Whitley Streibers of the world. That's a different discussion...
...mmmmmmmmmMMMMMM!....
- markfiend
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Oh there's certainly something interesting going on with the abduction phenomenon. It's unfortunate in a way that it's been drawn into the mythology surrounding UFOs; it probably has more to do with mystical experiences such as meeting with gods, demons, fairies, etc. IMO.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
And likely for much the same reason too. Oh, I do believe that they're out there alright, it is an infinite universe after all, and it would be monstrously arrogant of us to assume we're the sole sentient life forms in it, but if we are being visited by aliens why on earth does it seem to be the teenage delinquent joyriders rather than agents of a higher power and wisdom?markfiend wrote:Oh there's certainly something interesting going on with the abduction phenomenon. It's unfortunate in a way that it's been drawn into the mythology surrounding UFOs; it probably has more to do with mystical experiences such as meeting with gods, demons, fairies, etc. IMO.
Or maybe I've just been listening to too much Hawkwind lately?
Speaking of which, Lemmy apparently saw a UFO once.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
- moses
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These are an interesting thing tho.............
[/url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amnNgXRK ... elated[url]
[/url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amnNgXRK ... elated[url]
- nowayjose
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Ufology is just another 20th century religion. Your points above can be applied to all the evidence that exists for the other religions.markfiend wrote:
- Unreliable and contradictory "eyewitness" "testimony", including "death-bed confessions"
- Second- and third-hand accounts, often filtered through "true believers"
- Blurred photographs and camcorder footage that, on analysis, prove to be well-known and well-understood aerial phenomena. (Including, but not limited to: birds, known aircraft, meteors, planets, stars, the moon...)
- Abduction reports gained through "hypnotic regression" -- which is little better than guided fantasy
- Out and out hoaxes
Actually, Mark is one person who would be most inclined to agree with you on that one...nowayjose wrote:Ufology is just another 20th century religion. Your points above can be applied to all the evidence that exists for the other religions.markfiend wrote:
- Unreliable and contradictory "eyewitness" "testimony", including "death-bed confessions"
- Second- and third-hand accounts, often filtered through "true believers"
- Blurred photographs and camcorder footage that, on analysis, prove to be well-known and well-understood aerial phenomena. (Including, but not limited to: birds, known aircraft, meteors, planets, stars, the moon...)
- Abduction reports gained through "hypnotic regression" -- which is little better than guided fantasy
- Out and out hoaxes
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
- Silver_Owl
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Indeed. This I found particularly interesting.boudicca wrote:That's very true, Raf ... I was just referring more to the general "we are being deceived by great shadowy powers" thing.
There's a pretty good Wiki entry on all this business...
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
As the day is long.
- timsinister
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I can't understand why any intergalactic hyper-intelligence would even bother with a load of bottom-feeding ur-cultured ex-primates like us.
Stop the planet, I want to get off!
Stop the planet, I want to get off!
- markfiend
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I saw a flight of three orange UFOs once. Turns out (when they got closer) that it was three seagulls with street-lights reflecting off their wings.mh wrote:Speaking of which, Lemmy apparently saw a UFO once.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
markfiend wrote:Oh there's certainly something interesting going on with the abduction phenomenon.
http://www.susanblackmore.co.uk/journalism/ns94.html
http://inamidst.com/lights/earth
You don't believe aliens have visited but you do believe in fairies?markfiend wrote:It's unfortunate in a way that it's been drawn into the mythology surrounding UFOs; it probably has more to do with mystical experiences such as meeting with gods, demons, fairies, etc. IMO.
- markfiend
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No you misunderstand me. I believe that there's some underlying phenomenon, (quite possibly electrical in nature, possibly combined with a psycho-pathological phenomenon, as your links point out) which witnesses interpret variously as aliens, fairies, gods, whatever. There are interesting cultural questions as to why person A might interpret their experience as a traumatic medical examination by grey aliens, whereas person B might interpret their experience as a visitation from an angel.stufarq wrote:You don't believe aliens have visited but you do believe in fairies?
I believe there is a common underlying objective truth behind wildly different subjective reports. I tend towards the idea that certain people have some abnormality, possibly in the temporal lobe (temporal lobe epilepsy can manifest similarly to these kind of experiences) so that some external phenomenon, possibly electrical in nature, can trigger weird subjective experiences.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
- James Blast
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that is not possiblemh wrote:Or maybe I've just been listening to too much Hawkwind lately
"And when you start to think about death, you start to think about what's after it. And then you start hoping there is a God. For me, it's a frightening thought to go nowhere".
~ Peter Steele
~ Peter Steele
I actually worked out what you meant after I'd posted. I thought about changing it but decided it was funnier just to leave it.markfiend wrote:No you misunderstand me.stufarq wrote:You don't believe aliens have visited but you do believe in fairies?
Yep, I'd agree pretty much absolutely with all that, except that I think different phenomena can sometimes produce the same results. For instance, earth lights can produce hallucinations in people with no temporal lobe abnormalities and can certainly produce purely visual (non-hallucinatory) phenomena that explain many UFO sightings. But, as you say, sometimes they can combine too.markfiend wrote:I believe that there's some underlying phenomenon, (quite possibly electrical in nature, possibly combined with a psycho-pathological phenomenon, as your links point out) which witnesses interpret variously as aliens, fairies, gods, whatever. There are interesting cultural questions as to why person A might interpret their experience as a traumatic medical examination by grey aliens, whereas person B might interpret their experience as a visitation from an angel.
I believe there is a common underlying objective truth behind wildly different subjective reports. I tend towards the idea that certain people have some abnormality, possibly in the temporal lobe (temporal lobe epilepsy can manifest similarly to these kind of experiences) so that some external phenomenon, possibly electrical in nature, can trigger weird subjective experiences.
- Ramone
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My two pence worth.
For many year I was in awe of the UFO phenomenon . From hearing of the supposed CIA involvement in the movie Close encounters of the third kind as part of their 'indoctrination program' - Dr J. Allen Hyneck, one of the men behind Project Blue Book even makes a cameo and was the 'movies adviser'. To telephoning directly Walter Haut,the man who drafted the press release that was sent out from Roswell Air force base and told the world that the USAF had captured a Flying saucer.
I've seen hundreds of blurry photos, read many 'accounts' from witnesses and seen the grainy video footage and I'm yet to be fully convinced. Even if they are from retired Pilots and policemen.
But I do take notice when Governments, Astronauts, National air forces and even NASA start to come forward and present evidence they themselves cannot fathom.
Case in point, In 1989, the Belgian Air force released at a press conference cockpit radar footage of an object that violated their air space and out flew their own jets and then dropped 10,000 feet in four seconds. A maneuver that would kill a human pilot. They didn't release the footage for ' kicks and giggles' they did so because they claimed they had no idea what it was that flying through their air space for which they had no defence against.
China, Iraq, France, Germany, Britain and since the cold war Russia have all presented footage of objects that have entered their air space with no explanation.
Is this evidence enough? Of course not. Radars can malfunction, people can be deceived by their own eyes.
A man called David Sereda conducted a six year investigation using over 400 hours of raw NASA footage and correspondence with the very Astro physicists and engineers who put the space shuttles into action and askef for their conclusions on the footage. In the 1990's before we all had Sky and every one was a junior Fox Mulder, NASA used to 'beam back' their m*****n footage raw and uncensored, and anyone with the correct equipment could 'download and tape' it too.
Using the visible spectrum that we all have we cannot detect certain things, objects that give off great amounts of energy, energy that would be needed to traverse space,but using NASA's cameras that film in the near ultra violet, the footage is astounding. From objects passing behind the Space lab and the Soyeuz space station to objects traveling at an estimated 25,000 mph on the fringes of our atmosphere - it;'s not a case of 'why don't they just land on the White House Lawn' it's more of a case maybe they have, we just can't see them.
No, I'm not a fan of Eric Von Daniken or nor do I believe they are here amongst us but in another form! But I do firmly believe they are here and they have been for a very long time ( yes I know that's from the X Files)
Evidence a case for Nasa UFO's. A very thought provoking and well constructed piece of investigation.
Plus, Google the the Dropa Stones. They're not a dodgy goth band, they are evidence that we may of been visited by some of the craft / objects that appear on the NASA tapes. You may shrug ya shoulders but it's worth a look all the same.
But to answer the original question about the moon landings being hoaxed..the answer if of course. Why have they not been back for decades and why don't they just do it again , but using the exact same materials and technology they used back in 1969?
If I was a billionaire, I would throw the money at them and say to them -- go on then do it again ya bastards!!!
For many year I was in awe of the UFO phenomenon . From hearing of the supposed CIA involvement in the movie Close encounters of the third kind as part of their 'indoctrination program' - Dr J. Allen Hyneck, one of the men behind Project Blue Book even makes a cameo and was the 'movies adviser'. To telephoning directly Walter Haut,the man who drafted the press release that was sent out from Roswell Air force base and told the world that the USAF had captured a Flying saucer.
I've seen hundreds of blurry photos, read many 'accounts' from witnesses and seen the grainy video footage and I'm yet to be fully convinced. Even if they are from retired Pilots and policemen.
But I do take notice when Governments, Astronauts, National air forces and even NASA start to come forward and present evidence they themselves cannot fathom.
Case in point, In 1989, the Belgian Air force released at a press conference cockpit radar footage of an object that violated their air space and out flew their own jets and then dropped 10,000 feet in four seconds. A maneuver that would kill a human pilot. They didn't release the footage for ' kicks and giggles' they did so because they claimed they had no idea what it was that flying through their air space for which they had no defence against.
China, Iraq, France, Germany, Britain and since the cold war Russia have all presented footage of objects that have entered their air space with no explanation.
Is this evidence enough? Of course not. Radars can malfunction, people can be deceived by their own eyes.
A man called David Sereda conducted a six year investigation using over 400 hours of raw NASA footage and correspondence with the very Astro physicists and engineers who put the space shuttles into action and askef for their conclusions on the footage. In the 1990's before we all had Sky and every one was a junior Fox Mulder, NASA used to 'beam back' their m*****n footage raw and uncensored, and anyone with the correct equipment could 'download and tape' it too.
Using the visible spectrum that we all have we cannot detect certain things, objects that give off great amounts of energy, energy that would be needed to traverse space,but using NASA's cameras that film in the near ultra violet, the footage is astounding. From objects passing behind the Space lab and the Soyeuz space station to objects traveling at an estimated 25,000 mph on the fringes of our atmosphere - it;'s not a case of 'why don't they just land on the White House Lawn' it's more of a case maybe they have, we just can't see them.
No, I'm not a fan of Eric Von Daniken or nor do I believe they are here amongst us but in another form! But I do firmly believe they are here and they have been for a very long time ( yes I know that's from the X Files)
Evidence a case for Nasa UFO's. A very thought provoking and well constructed piece of investigation.
Plus, Google the the Dropa Stones. They're not a dodgy goth band, they are evidence that we may of been visited by some of the craft / objects that appear on the NASA tapes. You may shrug ya shoulders but it's worth a look all the same.
But to answer the original question about the moon landings being hoaxed..the answer if of course. Why have they not been back for decades and why don't they just do it again , but using the exact same materials and technology they used back in 1969?
If I was a billionaire, I would throw the money at them and say to them -- go on then do it again ya bastards!!!
Last edited by Ramone on 06 Sep 2008, 22:16, edited 1 time in total.
"It was great that Kurt Cobain shot himself when he did..cos without that ,we'd have no Foo Fighters today" :Ramone, Little Lebowski Urban Achiever. November 2008
- Ramone
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Now bare in mind everything I've just said. I know many of you will no doubt think 'Ramone, my god he's a nut job, little green men from outer space..yeah whatever'
Now, consider the wildest theory of us being visited by aliens, probes, missile bases being shut down, cattle mutilations, abuductees.... and then ask yourself..Just how did religion make you believe all their s**t..
I'll hand you over to the legendary George Carlin (R.I.P)
"When it comes to s**t, big-time, major league s**t, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest s**t story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good s**t story. Holy s**t!"
Now, consider the wildest theory of us being visited by aliens, probes, missile bases being shut down, cattle mutilations, abuductees.... and then ask yourself..Just how did religion make you believe all their s**t..
I'll hand you over to the legendary George Carlin (R.I.P)
"When it comes to s**t, big-time, major league s**t, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest s**t story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good s**t story. Holy s**t!"
"It was great that Kurt Cobain shot himself when he did..cos without that ,we'd have no Foo Fighters today" :Ramone, Little Lebowski Urban Achiever. November 2008