a civil thread on Israel and the Middle East

[Suleiman]

End Apartheid!

[jenzi-benzi]

I guess I will not be allowed to enter Israel.

In 2 months I will be an the Islamic Kingdom of Brunei, they even dont allow Israel-citizens to enter their country…

[euphoria]

I guess I will not be allowed to enter Israel.

In 2 months I will be an the Islamic Kingdom of Brunei, they even dont allow Israel-citizens to enter their country…

That won't be a problem, Israel doesn't have any such restrictions (unless you have any Palestinian connections...)

Well. This will be very interesting. Comments from Andrew? Press-conference ("How was it working with Ofra Haza? How has Ofra Haza inspired your work?...)?
Certain lines from Neverland, Dr Jeep and Lucretia will suddenly sound very real...

[dinky daisy]

"I'm having a hard time believing that Our fearless leader! would play Israel, given his politics. "

We shouldn't blame the citizens for the neo-con new world order they're swollen by.

Oops, that was too polemic.

I bet that every country where Sisters played has corruption within. And the paramount leader is intelligent enough to not judge his listeners by their backgrounds.

Considering this, i wouldn't feel fine if I was performing in Communist China while I was sure that the people surrounding (venue owners, security, promoters, bookers, etc) were as rotten as a bunch of noodles from the 1945 era.

[JeffDub]

has anyone here ever been to Israel actually ?

[EvilBastard]

has anyone here ever been to Israel actually ?

I haven't - not intending to go any time soon either for the same reasons I wouldn't have visited South Africa prior to 1994.

I hear it's a beautiful place, shame that there are elements who spoil it for everyone else.

[JeffDub]

has anyone here ever been to Israel actually ?

I haven't - not intending to go any time soon either for the same reasons I wouldn't have visited South Africa prior to 1994.

I hear it's a beautiful place, shame that there are elements who spoil it for everyone else.

ever been to the Islamic Republic of Iran, so you can compare and know what you are talking about ?

[Suleiman]

has anyone here ever been to Israel actually ?

I haven't - not intending to go any time soon either for the same reasons I wouldn't have visited South Africa prior to 1994.

I hear it's a beautiful place, shame that there are elements who spoil it for everyone else.

ever been to the Islamic Republic of Iran, so you can compare and know what you are talking about ?

End Apartheid Now!

Both states are as bad as each other. I would love to visit Jerusalem and Isfahan. Shame about the governments of those two theocracies.


Salam/Shalom

Al

[EvilBastard]

has anyone here ever been to Israel actually ?

I haven't - not intending to go any time soon either for the same reasons I wouldn't have visited South Africa prior to 1994.

I hear it's a beautiful place, shame that there are elements who spoil it for everyone else.

ever been to the Islamic Republic of Iran, so you can compare and know what you are talking about ?

Yep, I was there this time last year. Definitely a beautiful place, Esfahan is truly spectacular, stunning architecture, lovely people, very civilised. And by and large in compliance with UN resolutions, so right away one up on the Israeli government.

[JeffDub]

I haven't - not intending to go any time soon either for the same reasons I wouldn't have visited South Africa prior to 1994.

I hear it's a beautiful place, shame that there are elements who spoil it for everyone else.

ever been to the Islamic Republic of Iran, so you can compare and know what you are talking about ?

End Apartheid Now!

Both states are as bad as each other. I would love to visit Jerusalem and Isfahan. Shame about the governments of those two theocracies.


Salam/Shalom

Al

I totally agree with you.

do not judge people by their government or nationalities !

[Suleiman]

I haven't - not intending to go any time soon either for the same reasons I wouldn't have visited South Africa prior to 1994.

I hear it's a beautiful place, shame that there are elements who spoil it for everyone else.

ever been to the Islamic Republic of Iran, so you can compare and know what you are talking about ?

Yep, I was there this time last year. Definitely a beautiful place, Esfahan is truly spectacular, stunning architecture, lovely people, very civilised. And by and large in compliance with UN resolutions, so right away one up on the Israeli government.

"He who has not seen Isfahan has not seen half the world".

The ‘West’ doesn’t provide billions in aid to Iran’s military so it can occupy its neighbours…

[EvilBastard]

I totally agree with you. Do not judge people by their government or nationalities !

I don't recall anyone doing that - I'm sure that the majority of the Israeli people are lovely, just a shame that their government is a bunch of shysters who justify their behaviour with an ancient fairytale. Until that stops being the case, or at least until it appears that things are changing for the better, I figure they can do without my money.

On the other hand, the government in Tehran does seems to be showing some promise - Ahmadinejad's days in office are numbered, Rafsanjani is broadly tipped to be the next leader, he's extremely popular, very moderate, and can do business with other countries.

Of course, what gets Iran on my list of Countries To Invite To My Birthday Party is that it isn't illegally occupying wide tracts of other people's land.

[JeffDub]

I totally agree with you. Do not judge people by their government or nationalities !

I don't recall anyone doing that - I'm sure that the majority of the Israeli people are lovely, just a shame that their government is a bunch of shysters who justify their behaviour with an ancient fairytale. Until that stops being the case, or at least until it appears that things are changing for the better, I figure they can do without my money.

On the other hand, the government in Tehran does seems to be showing some promise - Ahmadinejad's days in office are numbered, Rafsanjani is broadly tipped to be the next leader, he's extremely popular, very moderate, and can do business with other countries.

Of course, what gets Iran on my list of Countries To Invite To My Birthday Party is that it isn't illegally occupying wide tracts of other people's land.

just by curiosity, in which western country do you live ?

I know some people who live in Iran and who play metal music. they release their albums in the USA as this music is illegal in their country.

[sunshine]

Is Hypernova illegal???

[euphoria]

Is Hypernova illegal???

According to this article, which is on their Myspace page, yes, sort of:

In Iran, people are not allowed to listen to Western music, let alone make it. Hypernova is an indie-rock band from Tehran influenced by groups such as The Strokes, the Arctic Monkeys and Queens of the Stone Age. Their new CD is called Who Says You Can't Rock in Iran?; they recorded it illegally in their home country....


Anyway, back on topic: Is anybody else doing this one? If so, are you doing Beirut too - and how? I don't have time for an overland trip so I have to fly down. I can only think of Jordan right now as a "convenient" (well..) base for both gigs, but flights to Jordan are much more expensive than to Israel. Something from Cyprus or Turkey maybe?

If it doesn't work out (in a simple way) I'll go to Tel Aviv. Would really love to see Beirut but you can't have it all...

[dinky daisy]

Is Hypernova illegal???

Someone asked me that about Scooter since he duetted with Status Quo, so hell knows.

[the_inescapable_truth]

has anyone here ever been to Israel actually ?

Yeah, several times. My family on my mother's side moved there after surviving the holocaust, and I try to visit them when I can. As a secular British Jew, I think a solid case can still be made for Israel's existence based on historical, legal, and humanitarian grounds.

It should go without saying but I am, like most people, Israelis included, appalled by Israel's treatment of Palestinians, just as much as I am about rockets being fired into Israeli schools. It's true that Israel's treatment has perhaps been heavy handed, but you'll never find me standing shoulder shoulder with Hamas - as many on the confused British left seem to be. I find this despicable. The irony is of course, Hamas would kill them in a second if they refused to accept their confused little totalitarian world view, based on, yup, fairy tales.

Nor will you ever find me supporting places like Iran where women are still treated like second class citizens. I know we're all supposed to be moral relativists these days but I am certainly not. I have values of the Enlightenment, based on reason and experience, that I think are important to defend. And it's this part where I find myself strongly on the side of Israel, even if there's there's a huge black mark for their existing actions.

One thing is for sure, it's a complicated issue and too many people are far to quick to draw conclusions. Frankly I am sick of the average white, middle-class, sanctimonious person, who is so quick to dismiss the actions of Israel, whilst being ignorant of the surrounding issues. People need to investigate for themselves - if they actually care - and not draw their political opinions from celebrities or their newspaper. And you know read more than one book on the issue!

That said then, I don't want to get into a heated political argument here - it is not the place.

Oh, and I'll probably go this gig if it happens.

[euphoria]

One thing is for sure, it's a complicated issue and too many people are far to quick to draw conclusions. Frankly I am sick of the average white, middle-class, sanctimonious person, who is so quick to dismiss the actions of Israel, whilst being ignorant of the surrounding issues. People need to investigate for themselves - if they actually care - and not draw their political opinions from celebrities or their newspaper. And you know read more than one book on the issue!

That said then, I don't want to get into a heated political argument here - it is not the place.

Oh, and I'll probably go this gig if it happens.

I think we will get along well -see you there if my plan works out and if things stay relatively calm!

[GC]

The big defining difference between Israel and it's neighbours is this:

Israel could defeat/destroy all of it's neighbours if it chooses to. It chooses not too.

It''s neighbours wants to destroy and kill as many Jews as possible. Luckily it does n't have the means too.

This kind of sets the tone for me.

Yes I will agree that Israel have f**ked up a few times, but given their predicament it could have been much worse.

[Suleiman]

Hamas, Lehi, Hezbollah, Irgun….

You kill civilians, you are a terrorist.

The division of Jew/Arab is artificial.

The Taliban commit crimes against women. How does that excuse Israel’s bombing of Beruit?

Israel’s biggest threat is that the Palestinian population is growing faster than its own.

Heavy handed? You mean bloody racist.

End Apartheid Now! Israel is an apartheid nation and Gaza is a ghetto.

It’s up to intelligent people like your self to change the situation.

How do you see the future of Israel?

Salam/Shalom

Al

[dinky daisy]

Please, stop the shizzle.

People in general are idiots, not people from a certain country.

[7anthea7]

Please, stop the shizzle.

People in general are idiots, not people from a certain country.

Amen. On both counts.

[GC]

Hamas, Lehi, Hezbollah, Irgun….

You kill civilians, you are a terrorist.

The division of Jew/Arab is artificial.

The Taliban commit crimes against women. How does that excuse Israel’s bombing of Beruit?

Israel’s biggest threat is that the Palestinian population is growing faster than its own.

Heavy handed? You mean bloody racist.

End Apartheid Now! Israel is an apartheid nation and Gaza is a ghetto.

It’s up to intelligent people like your self to change the situation.

How do you see the future of Israel?

Salam/Shalom

Al

They gave Gaza back, left the infrastructure intact (farms, greenhouses etc). Within weeks there were rocket attacks. Apartheid is the only solution for Israel at this moment. (It is very sad however for the majority of Palestinians)

Israel bombed Beirut after an act of war by the Hezbollah. They were also the ones launching rocket attacks from lebanese suburbs. (the Lebanese government were also turning a blind eye to the amount of weaponary they were amassing)

Israels biggest threat is that the majority of lands surrounding them want to wipe them out. Without comprimise.

I hope that they will all find a peaceful solution but I doubt it. I also hate seeing pictures of Palestinian babies lying dead on the streets.

[dinky daisy]

*Gosh*...

If 'The Netherlands' is in Afghanistan or Iraq, I, the me, the person, the individual, is not there. I hate all kind of violence. So stop polarize; our TV does the job perfect already.

Be careful if talking about 'Israel' and 'They'.

Think of this: If the sisters play in Israel, does it mean that EVERY Israeli is a sisters fan?

[the_inescapable_truth]

What Gollum's Cock said really, but as I said this isn't the place, so I'm not going to say much more. Find out for yourself - try to at least understand where Israel is coming from and step out your leftist box once in a while. It's called thinking critically.

I can read Hebrew. Maybe take a screenshot and I'll mail you an annotated version?