Contractual reasons for not releasing "new" materi

[dinky daisy]

He is, he is. To prepare them brownstones, sir.

[Yggdrasil]

If he had any intention at all of releasing stuff, he'd be banging out low-budget independent releases and relying on the fanbase (who remain dedicated and would become moreso under such circumstances) to get sales. It works for other bands, some bigger and some smaller. It's a proven method, all it needs is the will to get the momentum going.

You're right.

But this also brings us back to the original question: if this is indeed the obvious way to do things, and E is not doing it, and refusing to talk about the reasons for not doing it, isn't it likely that he simply can't do it ?

I know I wouldn't be in a hurry to write new songs I knew I could never release if I were him.

The man needs to be questioned. Intently. Involving high currents, dimly lit cellars, Joanna Lumley-lookalike interrogators and a tape recorder (preferably of East German manifacture). Seems like the only way to get him to talk these days...

[eotunun]

Over and out.

Is that a promise?

For a very brief period I was member of an online music magazine where I, for an even shorter period, was in charge of introducing a band a week to the public. I picked the bands that popped into my mind instantly before looking for new ones, and one were the then pretty much brand new Eureka Machines. Googling didn't offer many results, so I decided to ask Chris for an interview by email.
This is the result, and represents the situation about October 2007:


Cheers for the e-mail and the kind words of support. It's much appreciated.

Record deals and the like are very different these days to how they used to be, and as much as I'd have once loved to do all this through a 'proper' label as it were, it's pretty difficult now because most larger labels don't really care about making music - they're just bothered about making money. This is nothing particularly new, but the difference at the moment is that no-one is signing anyone, because the majors (and bigger indies) are so scared of getting it wrong, for which I don't especially blame them. No-one knows what trend is coming next, no-one dare predict it. This is a business, so people in the business of doing business have to make it their business to keep their business afloat, if that makes sense. I have never been into music to make money, so it's difficult for me to see how I can integrate into all of the business side of stuff, especially when getting involved in the whole 'business' side of the music industry means haemorrhaging money left, right and centre, as 'helpful' industry insiders get their mates on board to try sell your music, creaming off a nice profit for themselves in the meantime. I don't necessarily begrudge people this. But I know loads of bands who aren't making money from their tours, because their agent takes their 20%, then they have a sound guy, tour manager, driver, t-shirt seller, lighting guy, a couple of crew etc... then play for £200 in front of 40 people. To my mind, you should just f**king work harder. If you're playing the local 200-300 capacity venues, as we will be doing, to 40 people, the guy doing the sound is going to know the room way better than your guy (on £150 a day). Lights are pretty but not that necessary in very small venues, and generally half of them don't work anyway. Two of us can drive, just means we can't get drunk, which is no bad thing. We'll play better. We might have a mate who'll come with us for beer money who'll help drive and sell shirts and give us a lift with our gear. We don't need crew just yet... if Steve Albini can set his s**t up before a gig, so can I. Just because you're in a band doesn't mean you forget how to change strings, and if you've got spares then you'll be okay, at our level. You are not Iggy Pop. Or David Bowie. Or, for that matter, Andrew Eldritch. These are real stars who have people sort their s**t out for them, because it adds to the show. Eureka Machines are not stars. Yet. Sorry, I'm waffling now... but I'm trying to make the point that it doesn't have to cost you a fortune touring, like some bands seem to do.

Selling merchandise and constantly updating it is a good way of making a couple of quid. Keeps the fans happy, and means you can get to your next gig. I'm currently speaking to various 'names' about remixing some of our songs, just for a laugh, and to sell at gigs for a few quid. Badges, t-shirts, stickers etc look nice and help advertise your band. Just don't stick them everywhere, because first, it just gets annoying to look at after a bit, and second, some poor sod will have to clean it off the toilet door at some point. I know - I was that poor sod.

I think through the medium of the Internet and being vaguely techno-savvy you can sell your records through it easily enough, too. I don't buy it that everyone downloads it, anyway - I know a lot of people do, but I speak to enough people who love to hold it in their hands and devour the sleeve notes and look at the pretty picture on the front. It just means you've got to make more of an effort with it. Look at the last couple of ...And You Will Know Us By The Trail Of Dead records. Not only great stuff (particularly the last one) but the singer painted the picture on the front. How cool is that?! Anyway. So yeah, we're recording, steadily, and again, you no longer have to pay through the nose for recording time. Wayne and I recorded the drums for the songs you hear on here at a nice studio nearby (Adam Pearson's old place, as a matter of fact), then I did the rest at home, on equipment I mostly borrowed that was altogether worth less than £1000. Amps, guitars, mics, sound cards, the lot. We've got eight songs done, and another bunch on their way. They may be an album, or a bunch of demos, I'm not sure yet.

I'd love to be in the music press and all that, but I have to face the fact that as far as the mainstream UK press is concerned, I am (at 27 years old) a bit past it. 27 means that I'll be 28 by the time we're good live, 29 by the time anyone cottons on to that fact and 30 by the time anyone who has cottoned on to that fact decides to tell anyone else. So I'm not priming myself for international success, fame, endless money and groupies in the jacuzzi. But I live in the hope that good tunes presented well will shine through the s**t and people will love it. I think if you do anything that is worth loving, then those who do love it will tell others. Oh and the UK is only a dot on the musical landscape - if I'm too fat for the Brits (an actual, genuine, real-life quote from an A&R guy - I'm six foot tall and 12 stone for f**k's sake - hardly in Meat Loaf territory), then we'll be going abroad. We're going abroad anyway, like, but the Europeans and Japanese and Americans and Australians care less about this than the Brits, who are obsessed with age, hairstyle and girth.

Errr... so basically, f**k money, let's have a party.

I hope this answers some of your questions. It certainly answers some of mine.

All the best in everything you do.
Chris.

Do you notice anything?
-His experiences he reports and attitudes given in that reply are pretty much the same as you get from him when talking as member of The Sisters.
Could it be that it's just the way it is?
That reply made my day back then and surely a most enjoyable band intro for a most enjoyable band on our site. Sadly the site seems to be dead now.
Thanks again for that answer, Chris!

[7anthea7]

His experiences he reports and attitudes given in that reply are pretty much the same as you get from him when talking as member of The Sisters.
Could it be that it's just the way it is?

Does kind of put the kibbosh on that 'They're only meat puppets for Von's official line' bit, dunnit?

Well, one theory down, eleventy seven more to go

(And thanks for posting that, BTW )

[dinky daisy]

Chris is the new Uri Geller. Nice quotations though, and very intelligent.

[il duce]

Thanks for that great interview with Chris. It proves once and for all that Chris is the best thing that has happened to Sisters. Great guy!

I think it also proves my point. Chris is talking about everything that we have said here, all the ways to make a cheap album and get it out to the fans without involving a record company or the "buisness". All those things that Von is not doing.
And I have a really hard time beliveing that Von is still under contractual obligations 19 years efter he released his last album, that makes no sense what so ever. And anyway: to qoute the homepage:
"Now that the moribund relationship with East West Records is officially over".
Which must mean just that, it is over, no obligations, no deal, no nothing.

And please do not misunderstand me here, I would absolutely love a new album, I just have a really hard time accepting that Von does not care. And even though I always go and see Sisters at every chance I get, I am getting a bit of sick of the same setlist, the same everything and never a interview, never any info, no updates on the webpage, a live video that never ever came, and no new music. I just think it is arrogant.

I would understand why there is no new album if he told us, but since all we get is silence and a neverending tour with same songs, I can not really pretend like it is ok and sit here and come up with reasons why Von is actually a great guy and is doing his best.

Sorry.

[euphoria]

Thanks a lot, eotunun, very interesting to read

[eotunun]

You're welcome, folks!
@il duce:
Somewhere in an interview or somewhere on the homepage Andrew said "We're looking for someone with th will to produce the album and the arm to put it out (propperly)"
-Not his exact words, I know, but I can't remember at the moment where that was said.
That arm to get it out seems to be somewhat of an issue for a band that sells worldwide, probably has to take care of the individual legislations of the countries etc.
Basically, I'd think you get someone to print booklets and labels on CDs, get the empty discs from there and take them to someone who puts the beeps and honks on them, packs them into cases and get them to some storage from where they get taken to the shops. Sounds simple.
The sheer number of record shops alone is what makes your temple boil when you think about The Sisters of Mercy releasing an Album that all the Woolworths, Amazons, Ebay shops and privately owned record shops want to have.
That one seems to be slightly ambitious for do it yourself buisness. We aren't talking about Eureka Machines who are in the early stages and sell maybe 1000 coppies with the help of friends, then get a smaller lable to take care of that. We talk about a band that is known to everyone who attended a party in the eighties and will recieve hefty airplay worldwide and all over the media if it really splits the curtain to make a new album come out. You need well developed infrastructure to get that job done.
Things went through my mind that contained the words "unemployed", "talented", "Fans", "Two flies with one clap", "We could do it" etc.
That was naive thinking though, I fear. Especially when I look at what happened to the "Waiting for the next one to arrive" thread and project. By now I'd bet my teddy bear on Andrew winning the race against the Heartlanders at getting a releasable thingy ready..

[il duce]

I really hope you a right. And I would be very, very happy if you were.

It is just this CD thing that is worrying me.
When Von and gang started this "new album" thing, we had a record buisness, and we had people willing to pay money for actual CD's. But those days are over. CD's sales are dropping everyday, I do not think that those days will come back when fans waited for a new album by a band and waited for a release date. This is really sad, since I love the actual product of a album made by a band with songorder, booklet, cover and everything. But I think that my kind is a dying breed.

And if someone with Vons loyal fanbase wants to reach out and get a audience again for new music, I personally feel that he has to give up on the notion of all that you spoke about (printing cd's, etc, etc, etc) because no label with come up with that kind of money today unless you are U2 or Beyonce.

So the future is in download, and for that you do not need much at all. Look at NIN, look at Radiohead.
Look at Foetus, he realeses albums (Manorexia) on his own webapage for very fair prices, completly without money backing him or a recordcompany, on the other hand every single cent he gets goes straight to his own pocket. Helping him with the next release.
Or what about Einsturzende Neubauten? Their method works really well too. No recordcompany behind that, just fans that pay for the product beforehand. Marillion is now making albums the same way. Hugh Cornwell (from The Stranglers) just gave away his new album for free.
For these people the idea of creating music and getting it to their fans is the most important thing, not waiting for the perfect deal that will never come.

[Smallstone]

In reply to Eotunums point about the sheer voulme of shops being an issue - the very opposite is in fact true.
No Woolies now and no Zavvi either (Virgin as was) bust - gone - kaput -we're talking about HMV, Amazon, Play.com and iTunes now making up the bulk of sales - if SOM released an album sau ooh... tomorow. Quality privately run Mum and Dad indies - you can count the really really good ones in the UK on your hands and feet - sad but true.
You do still need infrasture - for admin, getting paid, P&D deals for manufacture etc - in fact all the things Von needed when he started Merciful Release some 28 years ago and started his career....

[mh]

But this also brings us back to the original question: if this is indeed the obvious way to do things, and E is not doing it, and refusing to talk about the reasons for not doing it, isn't it likely that he simply can't do it ?

Just one more thing about this; it's been fairly prominently posted on the band's website that the "moribund relationship with EastWest is officially over" - if their lawyers were preventing a release in any way, then surely they would have taken notice of this too, and have done something about it? Let's not get paranoid...

The man needs to be questioned. Intently. Involving high currents, dimly lit cellars, Joanna Lumley-lookalike interrogators and a tape recorder (preferably of East German manifacture). Seems like the only way to get him to talk these days...

Where do I sign up!

[silentNate]

Hugh Cornwell (from The Stranglers) just gave away his new album for free.

Wow! He must have lost a whole heap of bread as I'm sure they were queueing round the block for that album

[Yggdrasil]

That one seems to be slightly ambitious for do it yourself buisness.

Distribution deals and record company deals aren't necessarily connected.

[Yggdrasil]

This is really sad, since I love the actual product of a album made by a band with songorder, booklet, cover and everything.

I agree. But remember, there are niche audiences for everything, very much enabled by the internet.

And if someone with Vons loyal fanbase wants to reach out and get a audience again for new music, I personally feel that he has to give up on the notion of all that you spoke about (printing cd's, etc, etc, etc) because no label with come up with that kind of money today unless you are U2 or Beyonce.

Look, it doesn't really cost much money at all to print CD:s. It is not a problem, that's a misconception. They are cheap and easy to make, now more so than ever.

If Von would choose to release a CD with packaging at, say, 5,000 copies, he would make quite a lot of money if he didn't have a manager or a record company. Especially if he could sell some of them directly from his website.

[sultan2075]

If Von would choose to release a CD with packaging at, say, 5,000 copies, he would make quite a lot of money if he didn't have a manager or a record company. Especially if he could sell some of them directly from his website.

I'd guess that he views a "mere" 5000 copies--which would sell out pretty quickly--as shameful. Better to not do it at all than do it on such a small scale is probably his thinking (hence: smaller venues are compensated for by much large tours).

[stufarq]

You're welcome, folks!
@il duce:
That arm to get it out seems to be somewhat of an issue for a band that sells worldwide, probably has to take care of the individual legislations of the countries etc.
The sheer number of record shops alone is what makes your temple boil when you think about The Sisters of Mercy releasing an Album that all the Woolworths, Amazons, Ebay shops and privately owned record shops want to have.
That one seems to be slightly ambitious for do it yourself buisness. We aren't talking about Eureka Machines who are in the early stages and sell maybe 1000 coppies with the help of friends, then get a smaller lable to take care of that. We talk about a band that is known to everyone who attended a party in the eighties and will recieve hefty airplay worldwide and all over the media if it really splits the curtain to make a new album come out. You need well developed infrastructure to get that job done.

I think you may be a bit optimistic here. All of those things are, I suspect, very much past tense. The Sisters haven't released anything for fifteen years and certainly aren't playing arenas any more. I don't think a new release would create that much media interest because the generation that most of the media are catering for have never even heard of them and many of those from the generation that has heard of them have long since forgotten them.

I'd love a new SOM album as much as everyone else but lets be under no illusion here: the main interest would be created among us lot. Many of AE's contemporaries (some of whom have already been mentioned and some of whom were frankly more successful) are now releasing via the Internet (not downloads but self-produced CDs) but not because it's easier and they get to keep the cash. It's because it's the only way they can release now. They can't get a recording contract these days and have little choice but to release directly to their fanbase.

As I think has been said before, perhaps one of Eldo's issues is that he's too proud to admit that he's in that category now.

[sultan2075]

As I think has been said before, perhaps one of Eldo's issues is that he's too proud to admit that he's in that category now.

Worse still, it's his own damn fault. He fumbled the ball on the nine yard line. Where was your Wide Receiver?

[stufarq]

I'm not sure that he so much fumbled it as deliberately dropped it, tried to walk off with it, was reminded that it wasn't actually his and burst it before storming off in a huff.

Not realising that everyone was sniggering at the rip in his trousers.

[Yggdrasil]

Many of AE's contemporaries (some of whom have already been mentioned and some of whom were frankly more successful) are now releasing via the Internet (not downloads but self-produced CDs) but not because it's easier and they get to keep the cash. It's because it's the only way they can release now. They can't get a recording contract these days and have little choice but to release directly to their fanbase.

Why is it a band thing to not be robbed by incompetent record companies who doesn't give a sh*t about your music?

Why would it be a bad thing to keep the money to yourself?

And why would it be a bad thing to admit that you earn more from selling 10,000 copies with no record company than from selling 500,000 with a record company?

"can't get a record contract" -who in their right mind would want one? Seriously? AE must be way smarter than that.

I still think the most likely explanation is that he simply can't release stuff. Perhaps he's too proud to admit it, as some here have speculated, I don't know. When was actually the last time he gave a proper interview?

[Smallstone]

Basically the press story would be - where the f**k have you been for the past 15 years? Sadly if you're not appearing in the mainstream press you don't exist - to the world as a whole. All the touring they've done since say....1996/97 has been to as folks have said here repeatedly a decreasing loyal core fan base - and has passed the media by - on the whole (the odd review here and there). The part I'm guessing he doesn't want to engage in is - pleasing the press or playing the whole PR game.... Dull press trips. Two weeks travelling around Europe speaking to journos - can't say I blame him. Essentially going from territory by territory explaining - where he's been. Gets kinda dull.
Radio won't play a new Sisters single - outside of maybe ya specialist shows. TV wouldn't show a video again aside from maybe ya Scuzz's and Kerrangs of this world - but then Myspace and Youtube kind of make for that.... 'cept you don't see any money back really - even from PRS/Publishing etc.
Thing is - he could make a bit more cash from player bigger shows IF he actually released a bit of product ... The press generated would mean that folks would buy tickets to shows 'cos they read about them in - Uncut or something (I'm being UK-centric here).... Things is IT IS an interesting story... thats the irony. 80s Cult star turns back on the music business....waits 15+ years until fans start despairing...
Yeah a nice CD - packaged well, super jewel case or digipack, 60-70p each. Something fancier - a case bound book, 30-40 pages - maybe an extra CD of mixes or live stuff - double that and maybe a bit more. CDS sell for £10 in store these days - ya fancier ones maybe £11-12 - limit it to 10K - get the fanbase out. HMV, Play.com, Amazon and ya indies. Wouldn't trouble the supermarkets I think. It's perfectly do-able - the figures bandied about for CD runs aren't widly off the mark - you;d be talking in the 1000s not 10 of 1000s... Smaller market - recession - illegal downloading - ageing fanbase. The market has totally changed in even the last 3-5 years let alone 15 +.
He'd have to do it independently - and I'm convinced it's the best way. Find a receptive indepependent distributor and cut a P&D deal.
The retail costs gets stumped up by your disributor - your racking in store and ads in magazines etc. People who do the 'buying' know who he is.
PR is expensive upfront - but worth the outlay. You sort out your embarassingly bad website and agree to talk to the press a bit.
Age shouldn't be an issue - but it is. He's 50 and he hasn't made a record since his mid-30s. Paul Wellers 50 and Nick Caves 51. They're his contempories - but they're never stopped releasing music. Playing live isn't enough to sustain interest.
Ah - this is like fantasy music business.. - you could market this as a board game !

[RobF]

Many of AE's contemporaries (some of whom have already been mentioned and some of whom were frankly more successful) are now releasing via the Internet (not downloads but self-produced CDs) but not because it's easier and they get to keep the cash. It's because it's the only way they can release now. They can't get a recording contract these days and have little choice but to release directly to their fanbase.

Why is it a band thing to not be robbed by incompetent record companies who doesn't give a sh*t about your music?

Why would it be a bad thing to keep the money to yourself?

And why would it be a bad thing to admit that you earn more from selling 10,000 copies with no record company than from selling 500,000 with a record company?

"can't get a record contract" -who in their right mind would want one? Seriously? AE must be way smarter than that.

I still think the most likely explanation is that he simply can't release stuff. Perhaps he's too proud to admit it, as some here have speculated, I don't know. When was actually the last time he gave a proper interview?

Without a record company he cannot afford even a tenth of the budget he would need to record and promote an album of the sonic/production quality he wants. Yes Anaconda may have cost 30p to record, Ribbons didn't.

He isn't failing to record an album on a budget and release it through the website on MP3/CD because he can't legally, but because he doesn't want to.

A Sisters album that lives up to their legacy doesn't need a record company, but it DOES need a bucket-load of cash, which they pretty obviously no longer have. I agree with others on here that Eldritch would find recording an album on a budget in a pretty decent studio and selling 5000 copies online, even on full price CD, pretty humiliating, it's not what The Sisters deserve.

There are bands that can exist outside the industry quite easily, like Shellac, but uniquely Albini has his own top-whack studio, and the income from his engineering. People even mentioned that U2 and REM are going to self-release their new albums, of course they are, they could buy the moon, Eldritch can't.

[stufarq]

It's not really about what the Sisters deserve. As someone said before, AE has cultivated this image of being the master manipulator and, frankly, is known for having a certain amount of ego. For him to admit that he is no longer a major player and can't have a major hit any more (even though he didn't actually have all that many in the first place) would simply be unthinkable from his point of view.

RobF has pretty much nailed why anyone would want a contract. It may be selling your soul to the devil but people do it all the time.

[sultan2075]

I agree with others on here that Eldritch would find recording an album on a budget in a pretty decent studio and selling 5000 copies online, even on full price CD, pretty humiliating, it's not what The Sisters deserve.

Well, maybe not in terms of the "grand, mystical, neopolitical sense" of the bands history, but in terms of the 15 years of missed opportunities...? Yeah, it's exactly what they/he deserve/s.

[7anthea7]

Where do I sign up!

It's going to be a loooooooong line, my friend

...Joanna Lumley-lookalike interrogators...

Think you can pull that one off?

[stufarq]

...Joanna Lumley-lookalike interrogators...

Think you can pull that one off?

Blonde wig, posh accent. I'll give it a bash if no-one else is up for it.