Final nail in coffin for "vaccines cause autism" h

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markfiend
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Harvey Winston wrote:science makes mistakes.
I've been thinking about this, and actually...

You're right. Science gets things wrong. An example:

Einstein's theory of Relativity showed that Newton's laws of gravity were wrong. However, Newton was only significantly wrong for masses bigger than (say) a planet, or for speeds above a significant fraction of the speed of light. (Mercury's orbit can't be calculated accurately using Newtonian mechanics alone, you have to take relatavistic effects into account.)

Having said that, Newtonian gravity is accurate enough to be used by the Apollo moon-shots.
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Harvey Winston
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gravitons, that's the future. get 'em patented.

scientists amuse me when they deny anything that their machines cannot weigh or measure, unless of course it can be postulated.

I'm working my way through bill bryson's book at the moment, excellent read it is too. Surprising to see how much has been discovered in our lifetime.
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nigel d
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markfiend wrote:It's never too late to get kids vaccinated...
controversy time

is measles really that bad . (what were the exact circumstances of the 2 deaths, they may have had measles, but was it measles that killed them?)

as a child if a friend had measles we were encouraged to visit "to get it over with all at the same time)

MMR was not available for my 3 eldest (hadnt been invented), but our 6 year old hasnt had it.

AND interestingly, the single vaccines were withdrawn by the uk government, therefore preventing an alternative method of vaccination for our child.
I asked the nurse in charge if vaccination at our local surgery to sign a document stating that that there would be no adverse reactions related to autism etc, and if there were, the surgery would be held responsible. She refused as did all the staff members.
doesnt instill confidence for me.
If i wish to have separate vaccines i have to travel and pay.
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stufarq
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nigel d wrote:is measles really that bad
The fatality rate is 3 per 1000 in developed countries but there can also be complications such as pneumonia or encephalitis.

Bear in mind that not just children are affected. You can get these supposed childhood diseases when you're an adult and they're often much more severe. One of the biggest issues with German measles (ie rubella - the "R" in MMR) is during pregnancy, when it can cause a number of birth defects.
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markfiend
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nigel d wrote:is measles really that bad .
It can be.
nigel d wrote:(what were the exact circumstances of the 2 deaths, they may have had measles, but was it measles that killed them?)
Yes. Measles can be fatal.

Well you did ask ;)
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markfiend
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Wikipedia wrote:Complications with measles are relatively common, ranging from relatively mild and less serious diarrhea, to pneumonia and encephalitis (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis), corneal ulceration leading to corneal scarring. Complications are usually more severe amongst adults who catch the virus.

The fatality rate from measles for otherwise healthy people in developed countries is 3 deaths per thousand cases. In underdeveloped nations with high rates of malnutrition and poor healthcare, fatality rates have been as high as 28%. In immunocompromised patients, the fatality rate is approximately 30 percent.
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Izzy HaveMercy
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markfiend wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:Complications with measles are relatively common, ranging from relatively mild and less serious diarrhea, to pneumonia and encephalitis (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis), corneal ulceration leading to corneal scarring. Complications are usually more severe amongst adults who catch the virus.

The fatality rate from measles for otherwise healthy people in developed countries is 3 deaths per thousand cases. In underdeveloped nations with high rates of malnutrition and poor healthcare, fatality rates have been as high as 28%. In immunocompromised patients, the fatality rate is approximately 30 percent.
You are trusting The Wiki for accurate scientific articles Mark! :eek:

Tsssss! ;D

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nigel d
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markfiend wrote:
nigel d wrote:is measles really that bad .
It can be.
nigel d wrote:(what were the exact circumstances of the 2 deaths, they may have had measles, but was it measles that killed them?)
Yes. Measles can be fatal.

Well you did ask ;)
there i go assuming that measles is a child hood thing. i honestly never think of it as an adult disease. :oops:

I would still like to know why there is no alternative available to mmr jab. :?
give me complete confidence in the stuff and i may reconsider..........
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stufarq
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nigel d wrote:I would still like to know why there is no alternative available to mmr jab. :?
Basically because the combined MMR is cheaper than separate vaccinations.
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markfiend
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And why put your kids through three separate jabs when you can do it all in one?
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nigel d
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markfiend wrote:And why put your kids through three separate jabs when you can do it all in one?
at least i would know that it is 100 per cent tried and tested with no scandal surrounding it (that i know of) I am "watching this space" for better substantiated evidence.
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We were living in West Yorkshire when we had our children (in the late 90's) & ended up paying privately for a Doctor, somewhere in Lincoln to perform individual injections.

Like many other parents we were terrified at the media hysteria at the time & that's why we made the decision. I suspect that many other parents that were also concerened about the reports but unable to pay, or unable to find a Doctor to perform the individual jabs. No doubt this is why the number of kids being imunised has dropped like a stone in recent years.
Give me one good reason
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markfiend
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nigel d wrote:I am "watching this space" for better substantiated evidence.
This is a blogger who has done more than most to dispel the myths and misunderstandings around vaccines: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/medic ... on_lunacy/
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
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Quiff Boy
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spotted this on New Scientist just now, and remembered the discussion on here a while ago...:

"Andrew Wakefield, who started the MMR-autism row, has been struck off the medical register for serious professional misconduct."
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Quiff Boy
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Quiff Boy wrote:spotted this on New Scientist just now, and remembered the discussion on here a while ago...:

"Andrew Wakefield, who started the MMR-autism row, has been struck off the medical register for serious professional misconduct."
and

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/ ... struck-off

MMR row doctor Andrew Wakefield struck off register

Doctor at centre of MMR scare struck off medical register by General Medical Council for serious professional misconduct
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markfiend
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Andrew Wakefield basically manufactured the MMR controversy for money. I'm not really surprised he's been struck off.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
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boudicca
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Bloody glad to hear he has been, though.
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markfiend
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boudicca wrote:Bloody glad to hear he has been, though.
Indeed.

Although he's currently playing the "persecuted Galileo" gambit on the US chat-show circuit, making shedloads of money. I don't suppose he lets the deaths of a few kids keep him awake at night.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
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