And there is the truth...would he? My guess is not knowing the tales of My guess is he would want a clean cd with no hassle from the past. Members or music wise.ZacheryAllanStarkey wrote: As such.....Eldo could record and release the songs he wrote with Varjack and Adam, so long as he made sure that they were paid royalties.
I think.
New CD. (no seriously)
U2 on tour in 2009 with only songs from Achtung Baby and 2 from the new cd?copper wrote:
And it's a bit silly to showcase a decade old material; if he has any intention of catching up with parties interested on the prospect of a new album (which is, of course, doubtful at best) , he needs to be able to say the songs are by the current lineup and they represent the present-day songwriting capability of the act.
Or he just gets bored and writes a new song every five or so years.
Labels? Labels..what are those? First get that Live DVD / CD package on the website for download than we will talk...copper wrote:Wasn't talking about setlists; audience favorites and golden oldies are mandatory to gain the optimal reaction. Have no qualms with that.
Was referring to labels (if, of course, Von intends to catch up with them).
I think that it is an interesting question.
And to be fair, I am not even sure how intersted I am right now in 10 year old songs, I would feel pretty cheated.
So the way out is one I have proposed before:
A new album with NEW songs and then a Limited Edition (or whatever) which is a double, where the extra cd is all the "new" songs (War On Drugs, Come Together, etc, etc).
Now since even suggesting this means that I live in LaLa Land and not really have any connection whatsoever with reality, I just want to say one more thing.
These threads are the closest we will ever get a new album. So let us have that little joy left.
And to be fair, I am not even sure how intersted I am right now in 10 year old songs, I would feel pretty cheated.
So the way out is one I have proposed before:
A new album with NEW songs and then a Limited Edition (or whatever) which is a double, where the extra cd is all the "new" songs (War On Drugs, Come Together, etc, etc).
Now since even suggesting this means that I live in LaLa Land and not really have any connection whatsoever with reality, I just want to say one more thing.
These threads are the closest we will ever get a new album. So let us have that little joy left.
And any fool knows a dog needs a home
A shelter from pigs on the wing
A shelter from pigs on the wing
I think Eldo's best opportunity to release material is the website using download capabilities. It really isn't that hard to do and most likely make a decent amount of cash in doing so. I'm rather surprised that he didn't move forward with that. I seriously doubt that the reason we haven't seen stuff released has anything to do with publishing rights, at least not between him and former members. Eldo is co-author on this stuff and I'm pretty sure he would've bound up the rights to use the music in a contract. That is sort of the standard thing to do. So the reasons for not releasing material lie elsewhere, I'm sure of it. I certainly would like to know what those are though.
As for feeling cheated or disappointed by a release containing the decent number of "new" songs that now exist... more than likely the studio versions of these tracks would be dramatically different than what we hear live, as evidenced in the differences from studio and live versions of the songs we all know and love. It is also possible that studio recordings of the "new" songs may already exist in some form. I'm sure Eldo has the equipment himself for such a thing and has probably had it for a very long time. But this is all my humble opinion and making assumptions. I know I'd love to hear the fully realized studio versions of these songs.
As for feeling cheated or disappointed by a release containing the decent number of "new" songs that now exist... more than likely the studio versions of these tracks would be dramatically different than what we hear live, as evidenced in the differences from studio and live versions of the songs we all know and love. It is also possible that studio recordings of the "new" songs may already exist in some form. I'm sure Eldo has the equipment himself for such a thing and has probably had it for a very long time. But this is all my humble opinion and making assumptions. I know I'd love to hear the fully realized studio versions of these songs.
I don't know anything about the Nick Cave example but permission always needs to be obtained to record someone else's song in any format. That's the whole point of copyright: to prevent someone else from exploiting your work without permission. it's not just about the royalties but about the right to control your own intellectual property.ZacheryAllanStarkey wrote:I do not think that permission is needed to record a song so long as the writer is paid royalities. IE..Martin Gore didn't need Nick Cave's permission to record "Loverman" so long as Cave got royalties. I think you only need permission of the songwriter if you want to change the lyrics.
As such.....Eldo could record and release the songs he wrote with Varjack and Adam, so long as he made sure that they were paid royalties.
I think.
No permission is needed simply to perform a song as royalties are arranged via the venue's licence from the organisation that administers royalties for that country (Performing Rights Society in the UK, various other bodies in other contries). But you absolutely can't record a song that isn't yours without the owner's (or their agent's) permission.
As I said before, whether Eldritch can record Varjak and Pearson's songs without permission depends on exactly who wrote what and what specific rights Eldritch holds.
Andrew said years ago that Adam was only interested in releasing his material if a major label would give them a major deal. This might not be the complete truth about why they didn't release anything back then, but I am pretty sure Adam (who strikes me as a very strict person) has all the rights to the material he wrote.
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I find it hard to understand why (or believe for that matter) Andrew would give so much control to Adam.
OK, he was the longest-serving Sisters guitarist by quite some way, but he's not a Sisters founder-member like Andrew (or Gary). So why would he have so much of a claim over Sisters material?
OK, he was the longest-serving Sisters guitarist by quite some way, but he's not a Sisters founder-member like Andrew (or Gary). So why would he have so much of a claim over Sisters material?
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
As I see it, it's not a matter of giving control away; the writer is the owner to begin with. And Andrew, apparently not inspirated/motivated to write music on his own, what better options did he have?
Also, I don't think Andrew would "blame" Adam for no new material being released for no reason at all.
Also, I don't think Andrew would "blame" Adam for no new material being released for no reason at all.
Last edited by despair on 11 Mar 2009, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.
- markfiend
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The point I'm trying to make:
If it is true that "Adam was only interested in releasing his material if a major label would give them a major deal" -- and that this was the major stumbling block to the release of Summer back in '96 (:eek:) -- then had Andrew wanted to release something independently, he could simply have fired Adam from the band. This is what I mean by "Andrew would give so much control to Adam".
Blaming Adam for the lack of release is IMO bullsh!t.
If it is true that "Adam was only interested in releasing his material if a major label would give them a major deal" -- and that this was the major stumbling block to the release of Summer back in '96 (:eek:) -- then had Andrew wanted to release something independently, he could simply have fired Adam from the band. This is what I mean by "Andrew would give so much control to Adam".
Blaming Adam for the lack of release is IMO bullsh!t.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
Or just written his own music. He's always said that he doesn't mind who does what as long as it gets done. But not much of it has been done in the last fifteen years and AE particularly seems to have relied on others to write the music. Could his own lack of musical compositions be telling us something?markfiend wrote:had Andrew wanted to release something independently, he could simply have fired Adam from the band.
He wouldn't even need to fire Adam to do this.markfiend wrote:had Andrew wanted to release something independently, he could simply have fired Adam from the band.
I agree that completely blaming Adam is bs, but regarding the material Adam wrote I believe Andrew's version of the story isn't too far out.
I think it tells a lot.stufarq wrote:Could his own lack of musical compositions be telling us something?
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- Road Kill
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I have often wondered about this....stufarq wrote:Or just written his own music. He's always said that he doesn't mind who does what as long as it gets done. But not much of it has been done in the last fifteen years and AE particularly seems to have relied on others to write the music. Could his own lack of musical compositions be telling us something?markfiend wrote:had Andrew wanted to release something independently, he could simply have fired Adam from the band.
Eldritch wrote and performed the Reptile House EP by himself, right? He wrote and played Temple of Love, yes?
And according to Eldo and a few others...
Eldo also wrote all of Floodland and performed the majority of it himself, correct?
So Floodland was basically an Andrew Eldritch solo album issued under the Sisters name..
Eldo is obviously a good songwriter, as evidenced by Floodland. Hell, even the bare bones demos of This Corrosion and Dominion show the strength of Von's songwriting.
So, I wonder why he has never done so again? Perhaps he is afraid he can't make lightening strike twice?
I do think Von has contributed musically to Crash and Burn and Arms...the chorus's of Crash and Burn and Arms have a lot of similarity to Floodland song structure...leading me to believe that Adam Pearson wrote the music for the verses of Crash and Burn while Eldritch wrote the music for the choruses of Crash and Burn, and that Chris wrote the music for the verse of Arms and Eldo the music for the chorus.
I don't know why Von doesn't just write and perform something himself. I write all the music and play all the instruments on my albums and I am just some bumpkin in Ohio........
Von's written at least four hit singles on his own (Temple of Love, Dominion, Corrosion, Lucretia), whats stopping him from doing so again?
point is that we don't know if he really didn't wrote any new new songs we could judge him by 'war on drugs' and 'come together' (am i right about this one ?) and by lyrics (i know that logically is that: we don't know/listen don't exist, but you know what i mean).
but during reading latest responses in this thread i was also wondering about this lack of his own songs, as we know he wrote 'floodland' and majority of 'vision thing' and others mentioned before by himself, so why ? i think that only dog and knows this.
in some way he rise this rock and roll mockery to a whole new level - he can live without releasing anything for more than 15 yrs - he got us -as radiojamaica called - 'easy to pleased' supporters/fans and btw shown record company his middle finger (and still doin' this)- maybe that was/is the point.
me, not a long time supporter stopped dreaming about 'new album' about 3 yrs ago (what is a half time of being a 'fan').
this, another, thread about the same topic all over again and again with all this 'wise' analyze is fecking pointless as fecking hell but of course i joined the madness and probably will do it another time.
middle part is main thing: stop dreaming about new songs/album recorded in that or another, less or more pro studio. and stop analyze this if will ever want to release anything he'll go do it. there is no other way. and this 'advise(s)' is just so funny. live your own life.
now good night/good morning.
massage end.
but during reading latest responses in this thread i was also wondering about this lack of his own songs, as we know he wrote 'floodland' and majority of 'vision thing' and others mentioned before by himself, so why ? i think that only dog and knows this.
in some way he rise this rock and roll mockery to a whole new level - he can live without releasing anything for more than 15 yrs - he got us -as radiojamaica called - 'easy to pleased' supporters/fans and btw shown record company his middle finger (and still doin' this)- maybe that was/is the point.
me, not a long time supporter stopped dreaming about 'new album' about 3 yrs ago (what is a half time of being a 'fan').
this, another, thread about the same topic all over again and again with all this 'wise' analyze is fecking pointless as fecking hell but of course i joined the madness and probably will do it another time.
middle part is main thing: stop dreaming about new songs/album recorded in that or another, less or more pro studio. and stop analyze this if will ever want to release anything he'll go do it. there is no other way. and this 'advise(s)' is just so funny. live your own life.
now good night/good morning.
massage end.
- Caravaggio
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Would you work, if you don't have to?ZacheryAllanStarkey wrote: Von's written at least four hit singles on his own (Temple of Love, Dominion, Corrosion, Lucretia), whats stopping him from doing so again?
There have been better plans
But none that I could ever understand...
But none that I could ever understand...
I don't think he performed them solo. As far as we all know, Floodland used musicians from James Ray's Performance while RH and TOL were made by the original Marx/Adams/Gunn line-up.ZacheryAllanStarkey wrote:Eldritch wrote and performed the Reptile House EP by himself, right? He wrote and played Temple of Love, yes?
Eldo also wrote all of Floodland and performed the majority of it himself, correct?
So Floodland was basically an Andrew Eldritch solo album issued under the Sisters name..
It's possible that Eldritch wrote the top line melodies (ie the tune for the vocals) while Pearson wrote all the instrumental music. That's quite a common songwriting arrangement for singers/lyricists. If either scenario were the case, there would be no separating the musical copyright and both would own it jointly, giving Eldritch the right to release the songs if he wanted to...ZacheryAllanStarkey wrote:I do think Von has contributed musically to Crash and Burn and Arms...the chorus's of Crash and Burn and Arms have a lot of similarity to Floodland song structure...leading me to believe that Adam Pearson wrote the music for the verses of Crash and Burn while Eldritch wrote the music for the choruses of Crash and Burn, and that Chris wrote the music for the verse of Arms and Eldo the music for the chorus