Read, read, read!!!! education, imagination, humour

[James Blast]

taht looks like an very auld book Ness, so it must be guid

[Debaser]

It's a fairly new one. A picture book - no words. Picture book? What am I saying, I meant 'graphic novel'

I spent 5 hours on an English course looking at books that had no words

[Obviousman]

[Brideoffrankenstein]

[markfiend]

Terry Pratchett: The Truth.

It seems to me that Mr Pin and Mr Tulip bear more than a passing resemblance to Mr Croup and Mr Vandemar from Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere.

[lazarus corporation]

Viriconium - by M John Harrison

[sultan2075]

Oh, and rather more to the point. I've recently finished Dante's Inferno, and am have yet to pick up another book.

So far it's a toss up between Dante's Purgatorio (an obvious follow up), Lewis Carrol's Alice In Wonderland or Michiavelli's The Price.

Haven't read any of them, and all three are sitting on my desk, waiting to be read.

I'd suggest finishing up with Dante. And if you're going to read The Prince, the best English translation is probably the de Alvarez translation (it's what I assign in my own classes). Machiavelli is a very tricky writer, and most translations take liberties with his original text that de Alvarez does not, which means most translators distort what Machiavelli is actually saying. He's also provided very useful notes for each chapter.

[boudicca]

I don't think the world will be safe if Maisey reads The Prince

[Maisey]

Just had a bit of a literary break with a couple of days buried in Doctor Who: The Infinity Doctors.

One of my favourite things about Dr Who is the allusions to the wider universe and history thereof, this book was an absolute feast for that kind of thing.

[timsinister]

Well said. Continuity references are any self-respecting (and self-deprecating!) geek's wet dream. Hence my love for the New Adventures.

Hence also my ill-disguised contempt for the New Series.

[Maisey]

Well said. Continuity references are any self-respecting (and self-deprecating!) geek's wet dream.

You're talking to a man who came into all this via Tolkien. Not The Lord Of The Rings per ce, but the entire saga of Middle Earth, Westernesse, Aman and ultimately back on Middle Earth again.

For me the holy grail of Tolkien back story was finding out about the mysterious far East lands, of which almost nothing is known.

Dr Who has the same kind of scope for obsessive attention to background that could keep even a Tolkienite happy. Of course, the fact that it has had many writers, all shaping the history of the universe around their own stories means it doesn't have even a fraction of the gloriously imagined continuity that Tolkien's world has - but it's a lot of fun none the less.

[Quiff Boy]

Well said. Continuity references are any self-respecting (and self-deprecating!) geek's wet dream.

You're talking to a man who came into all this via Tolkien. Not The Lord Of The Rings per ce, but the entire saga of Middle Earth, Westernesse, Aman and ultimately back on Middle Earth again.

For me the holy grail of Tolkien back story was finding out about the mysterious far East lands, of which almost nothing is known.

Dr Who has the same kind of scope for obsessive attention to background that could keep even a Tolkienite happy. Of course, the fact that it has had many writers, all shaping the history of the universe around their own stories means it doesn't have even a fraction of the gloriously imagined continuity that Tolkien's world has - but it's a lot of fun none the less.

but are the dr who books any more coherent than the star wars "extended universe" books?

i read a few of them when i was younger and most of them were so hack they wouldn't even get into print if they weren't featuring han, luke & co. dreadful.

[Maisey]

In a related note, I always thought Pratchett's discworld improving significantly when he started tying backgrounds, people & places together more consistently across his novels. Although some characters and themes remain the same from the start, it's only about a third of the way in that he really starts to solidify the supporting cast and geography.

[timsinister]

but are the dr who books any more coherent than the star wars "extended universe" books?

i read a few of them when i was younger and most of them were so hack they wouldn't even get into print if they weren't featuring han, luke & co. dreadful.

Quite the same problem applies to DW, as does to any franchise auctioned off to a separate publishing house which has hundreds of different retainers on hand.

If anything, SW continuity is more coherent, as it has more core and unassailable facts at the heart of it - DW, by its nature, does not! And there are some terrible Who books out there, just as there are some dire and directly contradicting Star Wars novels.

The common denominator is the 'Lucas Doctrine' whereby you flog rights for every penny you can bleed, and let everything else go hang.

[timsinister]

In a related note, I always thought Pratchett's discworld improving significantly when he started tying backgrounds, people & places together more consistently across his novels. Although some characters and themes remain the same from the start, it's only about a third of the way in that he really starts to solidify the supporting cast and geography.

There is an essay from him at the start of either Discworld Mapp, or Streets of Ankh-Morpork, where he describes his reluctance to give solid geography to the places in his stories - he rebelled against Tolkien's concept of 'map the story, then write it'. He thought it would rob a lot of spontaneity from his writing.

Instead, he found it quite liberating and now follows his plans carefully when writing stories! Basically put, whenever a series introduces a deeper, arcing plot or continuity, it creates a special kind of loyalty amongst consumers.

Because we're all anal geeks who like to be able to trace one character's family back a thousand generations, when we should be out meeting girls or something.

[James Blast]

is this a Dr. Who forum now?

[markfiend]

For me the holy grail of Tolkien back story was finding out about the mysterious far East lands, of which almost nothing is known.

Of course the East Lands didn't even really exist in the earliest conception. The little "map" in one of the Books of Lost Tales (I forget which) is a lot narrower in the East-West direction than the world later became; the Blue Mountains on the eastern edge of Beleriand were almost the eastern edge of the whole world IIRC.

But yeah. It's the "hidden vistas" that make something like the Tolkien legendarium, or the Discworld, so fascinating (at least to a certain kind of person).

Anyway. What was that? Just an excuse for me to turn this from Dr Who fansite to Tolkien fansite?

[Maisey]

There is an essay from him at the start of either Discworld Mapp, or Streets of Ankh-Morpork, where he describes his reluctance to give solid geography to the places in his stories - he rebelled against Tolkien's concept of 'map the story, then write it'. He thought it would rob a lot of spontaneity from his writing.

Instead, he found it quite liberating and now follows his plans carefully when writing stories! Basically put, whenever a series introduces a deeper, arcing plot or continuity, it creates a special kind of loyalty amongst consumers.

Because we're all anal geeks who like to be able to trace one character's family back a thousand generations, when we should be out meeting girls or something.

That's really very interesting!

I always found Anne McCaffrey's Pern to be a nicely thought out word. After a while the actual story lines become a bit predictable, but this is offset by the developing intrigue and history of the world in which they're set.

[Big Si]

is this a Dr. Who forum now?

You'd make a good Davros

[Big Si]

For me the holy grail of Tolkien back story was finding out about the mysterious far East lands, of which almost nothing is known.

Of course the East Lands didn't even really exist in the earliest conception. The little "map" in one of the Books of Lost Tales (I forget which) is a lot narrower in the East-West direction than the world later became; the Blue Mountains on the eastern edge of Beleriand were almost the eastern edge of the whole world IIRC.)

All we know is that 2 blue wizards were sent there, while a White (Saruman), Grey (Gandalf) and Brown (Radagast) wizard are the only ones he's really written about. I liked his writings on Numenor, how it's most unpopular king was actually building the foundations of Arnor and Gondor and trying to keep Sauron in line (long before he made the One Ring).

<------Tolkien Geek

[markfiend]

All we know is that 2 blue wizards were sent there, while a White (Saruman), Grey (Gandalf) and Brown (Radagast) wizard are the only ones he's really written about.

Indeed, Tolkien himself didn't know the number of the Istari until Saruman, in the ruins of Isengard, accused Gandalf of wanting the staves of the Five Wizards.

You're not going to out-Tolkien-geek me

[mh]

Made a start at this last year and didn't get too far, but trying it again now. It's fine but not up to the standards of his other work.

[Big Si]

All we know is that 2 blue wizards were sent there, while a White (Saruman), Grey (Gandalf) and Brown (Radagast) wizard are the only ones he's really written about.

Indeed, Tolkien himself didn't know the number of the Istari until Saruman, in the ruins of Isengard, accused Gandalf of wanting the staves of the Five Wizards.

You're not going to out-Tolkien-geek me

Gu kibum kelkum-ishi, burzum-ishi. Akha-gum-ishi ashi gurum.

[Maisey]

All we know is that 2 blue wizards were sent there, while a White (Saruman), Grey (Gandalf) and Brown (Radagast) wizard are the only ones he's really written about.

Alatar and Pallando are the names given to the two blue wizards, although this is pretty tenuous, pieced together from notes and letters. Alatar being the Eldar, Pallando being a follower or friend of Alatar.

It's speculated that they turned dark and are responsible for teaching magic to the shamans of the Eastern people.

Ref: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/b/bluewizards.html

[splintered thing]

Never could get into Tolkien (I know, you may beat me with a stick if it makes you feel better).

Just finished Oscar Wilde's Picture of Dorian Gray... hmm not convinced.