'Afterhours' and 'Train' - is there a reason...?

[Bertel]

Greetings from a new forum member!

I have searched the forum but found no hints, so I'll give it a try here:

It is of course a well-known fact that (unlike almost all of the other tracks that had been 'officially' released before) 'Afterhours' and 'Train' to-date still remain unreleased on 'official' CD.

(SIDE NOTE: I do know that there is the SBWBM and other releases [well, most of them have the demo versions], but afaik the sources for these always are the vinyl 12", correct?)

So I can't stop wondering: AE and evtl. other professionals responsible for putting together all the tracks for the re-releases with all certainty did not _forget_ to put these two tracks on the lists but intentionally _excluded_ them, right? Do we have any information why this might be the case? 'Afterhours' was a grand opener for a long time, so it probably can't be that AE didn't like it anymore or so, but I just couldn't find any information on that.

Any hints, clues, rumours, secured bits of information? All highly appreciated

Cheers,
Robert

[Spiggy's hat]

Doesn't the version of Train on the Lucretia cd single count?

[Bertel]

Hm, not exactly Although 'Train' is more or less just a much shorter edit out of the much longer 'Long Train' (or the other way round, I don't know), the result to me is very different. Unfortunately I don't own the Lucretia 3" CD yet anyway...

Still there's no 'Afterhours'...

[playboy]

I would also like to see Afterhours and Train to be released on cd. I do not count the neverending version of Train on the Lucretia single, the so called Long Train. It is, how much one might like that version, after all the track Train that appeared on the Body And Soul single. Also I would like to see the original version of Temple Of Love on cd, and not only the long version, though this is not as big issue as with Train, since I can push stop after the first half of the long Temple, and get the short one.....

[playboy]

Train is NOT just a much shorter edit out of the much longer 'Long Train'. Long Train, however, is a much longer remix of the short track Train. Long Train was put on the 12" just because they could make it longer on a 12" vinyl, as they also did with Temple Of Love. Easier and and lower cost to make a short song long to fill the time than record a whole new track from scratch. And also, you need more tunes in the first place..

[Bertel]

Long Train, however, is a much longer remix of the short track Train.

That's what I meant with 'or the other way round' - a remix that basically differs in playtime is at least a more or less distant relative to the original, allthough the end product is different, no doubt.

So, coming back to the original question: Do we know or have any hint why AE and possibly others involved obviously intentionally chose to exclude at least 'Afterhours' from the remastering and re-release process?

[lachert]

first long train appeard on bonus flexi disc in 1984, then on 12" lucretia.

[lachert]

So, coming back to the original question: Do we know or have any hint why AE and possibly others involved obviously intentionally chose to exclude at least 'Afterhours' from the remastering and re-release process?

same reason as with exclude body electric '84, they just hate us
seriously, it is really strange, all 3 extra tracks from 12" body and soul are missing. maybe they lose original tapes or something

[ribbons69]

I think it's more just a case of fitting them on somewhere.Poison Door/On The Wire/Long Train/Blood Money and Bury Me Deep are all on the remastered FALAA and Afterhours probably missed out on simply space constraints.However I would have rather had that than the demo Of Some Kind Of Stranger.

[Being645]

So, coming back to the original question: Do we know or have any hint why AE and possibly others involved obviously intentionally chose to exclude at least 'Afterhours' from the remastering and re-release process?

same reason as with exclude body electric '84, they just hate us
seriously, it is really strange, all 3 extra tracks from 12" body and soul are missing. maybe they loose original tapes or something

IMHO, for some time, decisions about which songs would be re-released (in CD format)
were to a good part (if not completely) upon the record company.

Just look at the Greatest Hits - Volume One ... it's exactly what it says, and we most probably find
Body And Soul on it only for the reason that the single had hit the charts under exactly that title ...

For the re-releases, they might have chosen to give people the B-sides and the additional songs
from the singles plus one unreleased further song from each era as an incentive ... however,
Body And Soul had already been mentioned on and used for the Slight Case Of Overbombing,
and Body Electric as well as Adrenochrome had been part of Some Girls Wander By Mistake
so they might have decided to omit these completely, in addition because the destiny and
drama train was intended to be finally brought to a definite halt, and even more so as
The Sisters were about to Bite The Silver Bullet ... and again I speculate,
they = record company, but maybe not so much this time ...



For The Sisters themselves - Afterhours has very often been used as an intro for the gigs over the past few years,
just like Train does appear on the set list often enough ... so they did obviously not exclude or give up these songs ..

[Bertel]

Sounds logical! But hmm, wait a minute... When e.g. taking your example of 'A Slight Case of Overbombing - Greatest Hits Volume One', the record company is Merciful Release, right? And the owner is AE, correct? Well, MR have distribution contracts with Warner and Elektra, but they haven't been actively involved in the creative process and in production, have they? So the whole process still is down to AE, or am I missing something here...?

[Being645]

Sounds logical! But hmm, wait a minute... When e.g. taking your example of 'A Slight Case of Overbombing - Greatest Hits Volume One', the record company is Merciful Release, right? And the owner is AE, correct? Well, MR have distribution contracts with Warner and Elektra, but they haven't been actively involved in the creative process and in production, have they? So the whole process still is down to AE, or am I missing something here...?

So it's been him and his infamous strategy ... ...


* welcome, btw ... ...

[Bertel]

Thanks for the welcome

Well, surely no 'infamous strategy', but from all that we know he must have been the one in control of this process, right? (Who else could have been...?) So since I perceive him to be someone who does things for a reason, that's what I would like to know...


I can imagine the 'master tape lost!' theory, although there is no information or hint to this, right? The 'Space constraint' theory would require someone to look up their physical 'Floodland' and SGWBM CDs (I only keep digital rips on my server) and report how many MB they take up...

[lachert]

nah, they lost original tape with body and soul.
ok, body and soul was on "slight case" but... it was 18 years ago and they can lost it in the meantime or... it was lost earlier and they used sound from video on "slight case". how do you like it, huh?

[lachert]

oh, and Andrew of course had nothing to say with choosing tracks on rhino's reeditions.

[Bertel]

Ah, now THAT is important information - sorry if only for me and everyone else knew... While The Ultimate Sisters Guide and Wikipedia and others just call the 2006 re-releases a 'Merciful Release/WEA' release, I can see from the labels that they in fact are 'Rhino UK, a division of Warner' (so btw does discogs.com report for the albums), so that sets things a bit more straight. You're probably right then Rafał that AE hadn't much of a say as to which tracks to choose... (However, SGWBM and ASCOO seem to be MR releases only, so the above doesn't apply to them...)

Well, who actually OWNs the mastertape of the Body Electric/Train/Afterhours session? I mean, physically? Doc showed two pics of the FALAA reels, wonder if those were from AE's hands Well, quite likely not...

[playboy]

I have just heard a rumour from ground control (oh yes, they sey it´s true..)......

Who owns the master physically does not have to be the same who owns the right of reproducing it.
I am in band myself and one of our previous records I did actually have the mastertape in my possession and wanted to use some tracks on a compilation cd but was not allowed for some time cause I didn´t have the publicity rights.
I have a friend who owns an original master of a Richard Wright album (ex Pink Floyd member-given away to him by Richard himself) but of course he cannot make records out of it anyway he wants. He will, on the other hand, get paid by the record company if they want to release any of the material on the tape. He can say no thanks, cause the recording material is his possession. The right of spreading it is not.
Complcated, I know, but maybe this was to some help.

Anyway....back to the rumour from ground control....
The thing why Afterhours and Train is not released on cd is to simple for us to handle.....
They were not on Some girls.... cause they were too new.
Not on Slight Case, cause Afterhours and Train was not hits, A-sides.
Not on the First And Last... cd with extra materiail since they are not recorded for that album or released on any single from the First And Last-album.
Simple as that.

There just hasn´t been any place for these two track (yet) since they were sort of inbetween the "old" singles, pre-wea and the actual album.

[Quiff Boy]

They were not on Some girls.... cause they were too new.

Not on Slight Case, cause Afterhours and Train was not hits, A-sides.

Not on the First And Last... cd with extra materiail since they are not recorded for that album or released on any single from the First And Last-album.

There just hasn´t been any place for these two track (yet) since they were sort of inbetween the "old" singles, pre-wea and the actual album.

yep, that's exactly what i was going to say.

[lachert]

body and soul was first single released for wea and for me it's on the same level as b-sides from walk away or no time to cry (both released before falaa), just b&s a-side dosn't fit into album.

[markfiend]

I would guess that Warner does not have the master tapes of the Body & Soul sessions. Perhaps Eldritch has them, perhaps a third party has them. Either way, they're unlikely ever to see the light of day on CD.

[Suleiman]

I would guess that Warner does not have the master tapes of the Body & Soul sessions. Perhaps Eldritch has them, perhaps a third party has them. Either way, they're unlikely ever to see the light of day on CD.

Oh-no!, don't say it's true.

[Quiff Boy]

I would guess that Warner does not have the master tapes of the Body & Soul sessions. Perhaps Eldritch has them, perhaps a third party has them. Either way, they're unlikely ever to see the light of day on CD.

Oh-no!, don't say it's true.

they got a message from the action man
i'm happy hope you're happy too



loving all the bowie quotes on this thread

thin white puke indeed...

[Bertel]

....back to the rumour from ground control....

Well yes, after all that really seems to make sense, sounds simple, understandable and logic...

So I do hope that they someday will have accumulated enough stuff that fits nowhere that it is just natural for them to put it all on a CD (and call it 'Dominion of Wanderers Lost' or 'Some Tracks Wander by Chance' or whatever). It has to be a natural, compelling process, 'cos they never did anything out of the blue, right? (*sigh* just trying to crack another quote )

[playboy]

body and soul was first single released for wea and for me it's on the same level as b-sides from walk away or no time to cry (both released before falaa), just b&s a-side dosn't fit into album.

Yes, but Body + Soul is from a completely different recording session. All track. Walk away and No time... were released before the actual album, but are from the same session, they were all recorded for the album, which is why they appear on the FLAA cd as extra trax. Walk Away was released in the beginning of october as a pretaste of the album. They intended to release the album (then called Black October) at the end of october but Andrew got very ill and they had to take a break from the studio.

They went back in the studio in november to record Blood Money and Bury Me Deep which would be the last proper studio recording with Gary Marx who allready then have decided to leave the band.
He did agree to carry on and play the album tour the following year and play his last gig with them on his birthday at Royal Albert Hall in London.

However. He left earlier, in the middle of the tour, cause he could not stand the madness anymore. He thought he could stand the whole tour but failed. He was determend never to enter a studio again with Andrew "We could write and record a double album in the time it took him to get the headphone mix to his liking".

[lachert]

body and soul was first single released for wea and for me it's on the same level as b-sides from walk away or no time to cry (both released before falaa), just b&s a-side dosn't fit into album.

Yes, but Body + Soul is from a completely different recording session. All track. Walk away and No time... were released before the actual album, but are from the same session, they were all recorded for the album, which is why they appear on the FLAA cd as extra trax. Walk Away was released in the beginning of october as a pretaste of the album. They intended to release the album (then called Black October) at the end of october but Andrew got very ill and they had to take a break from the studio.

yeah, i know, but on "some girls" you've got multiple sessions recording for example, they are just from some "independent period". there's no rule that b-sides or extra tracks must be from the same session as the a-side or particular album. body and soul 12" is just from wea-falaa period of time and should be, without any fear, added to falaa extras.