What was Eldritch's biggest mistake ?

[Machine Regime]

Markfiend -

I think you'll find that although there might be a vast majority of Sisters fans who were disappointed with VT, I sure as s**t ain't one of them. For me the band's music has generally gotten better, if not generally 'deeper' - and I'm pretty sure the reason their live act has for the last 20 years all sounded like VT is no coincidence - that's apparentlywhat he prefers also. The reason nothing they perform these days sound like the FALAA production (or even Floodland, tbh), is because that's not the sound Von has aspired to for a long time.

Don't get me wrong, the early stuff was great but the production and renditions were largely pretty dirgey, I prefer the industrial rock/pop groove machine they've developed into... which is probably why I have recurring dreams about what a new album would sound like...

[Bartek]

@Being: Damn Land of Delusion. TSOM ( ) plays songs from VT because they can. They don't really care about audience. Evidence: same setlist (with small cosmetic changes) for like over 10 years. I mean, of course RFH is good song in current live version, playing "Good things" in Belgium is fine but it's still the same setlist, with changed order and so. Of course one can say: it's because it still entertain audience, because they want to, but it's like constant reruns on TV- you get used to it and some day you get bored and just change the chanell. New songs ? Do the math and devide songs by years - it's at least not impressive. And reason quality over quantitity doesn't fit there because only few were really good (War on Drugs, Susanne, C&B- if we're talking about whole song- music+lyrics, imo). OK lyrics are still fine, but it's not enough.

@Mark.F.: As far as i remember reason to/for go on strike was not enough support in selling VT be Elektra (leg of WEA). But i' m affraid that VT couldn't sell better- glam/hair metal/rock was almost done at the time when ablum was released. However generally i'm agree with you opinion.

[Being645]

@Being: Damn Land of Delusion. TSOM ( ) plays songs from VT because they can. They don't really care about audience. Evidence: same setlist (with small cosmetic changes) for like over 10 years. I mean, of course RFH is good song in current live version, playing "Good things" in Belgium is fine but it's still the same setlist, with changed order and so. Of course one can say: it's because it still entertain audience, because they want to, but it's like constant reruns on TV- you get used to it and some day you get bored and just change the chanell. New songs ? Do the math and devide songs by years - it's at least not impressive. And reason quality over quantitity doesn't fit there because only few were really good (War on Drugs, Susanne, C&B- if we're talking about whole song- music+lyrics, imo). OK lyrics are still fine, but it's not enough.

Go listen ... yes, L-I-S-T-E-N !!! to the recent vid of Crash&Burn, Ribbons, Logic, Gift That Shines on YT ... and that might give you an idea of "good" or "sound" or "singing" or of what is an precise and powerful expression - and of what is evidently possible ...




* on a slight sidemark:
But you know I care about your bitch, don't I? How is she ... now that you have more time for walks ... ... tender touches from here ... ...

[Machine Regime]

@Being: Damn Land of Delusion. TSOM ( ) plays songs from VT because they can. They don't really care about audience. Evidence: same setlist (with small cosmetic changes) for like over 10 years. I mean, of course RFH is good song in current live version, playing "Good things" in Belgium is fine but it's still the same setlist, with changed order and so. Of course one can say: it's because it still entertain audience, because they want to, but it's like constant reruns on TV- you get used to it and some day you get bored and just change the chanell. New songs ? Do the math and devide songs by years - it's at least not impressive. And reason quality over quantitity doesn't fit there because only few were really good (War on Drugs, Susanne, C&B- if we're talking about whole song- music+lyrics, imo). OK lyrics are still fine, but it's not enough.

@Mark.F.: As far as i remember reason to/for go on strike was not enough support in selling VT be Elektra (leg of WEA). But i' m affraid that VT couldn't sell better- glam/hair metal/rock was almost done in the time when ablum was released. However generally i'm agree with you opinion.

Pretty sure Guns N' Roses and Metallica were doing pretty well in 1990 and for a good couple of years after... I think the Sisters gravy train could've run for quite some time if WEA had a little more will to flex their muscles. Anyway - ancient history now, eh?

[Bartek]

Fair point Machine R.
Being: i was refering to your post about songs from VT played on current gigs (tours). How you feel it now today it's your opinion, like my is mine. To me current band is like reruns or to be more prcise director cut re-edition/relaese - not so bad i saw it before few times.

[Prescott]

@Being: Damn Land of Delusion. TSOM ( ) plays songs from VT because they can. They don't really care about audience. Evidence: same setlist (with small cosmetic changes) for like over 10 years. I mean, of course RFH is good song in current live version, playing "Good things" in Belgium is fine but it's still the same setlist, with changed order and so. Of course one can say: it's because it still entertain audience, because they want to, but it's like constant reruns on TV- you get used to it and some day you get bored and just change the chanell. New songs ? Do the math and devide songs by years - it's at least not impressive. And reason quality over quantitity doesn't fit there because only few were really good (War on Drugs, Susanne, C&B- if we're talking about whole song- music+lyrics, imo). OK lyrics are still fine, but it's not enough.

@Mark.F.: As far as i remember reason to/for go on strike was not enough support in selling VT be Elektra (leg of WEA). But i' m affraid that VT couldn't sell better- glam/hair metal/rock was almost done in the time when ablum was released. However generally i'm agree with you opinion.

Pretty sure Guns N' Roses and Metallica were doing pretty well in 1990 and for a good couple of years after... I think the Sisters gravy train could've run for quite some time if WEA had a little more will to flex their muscles. Anyway - ancient history now, eh?

I was just going to say the same thing. Not to mention the fact that they almost toured with Metallica. I believe they bailed out or were dumped in favor of Suicidal Tendancies. Hammett can be seen wearing a Sisters shirt in Mexico city on the Live s**t: Binge and Purge box set. Besides, Hard Rock and Metal have arguably only grown in popularity since the demise of so-called grunge nonsense. No, I'm afraid the tour with Public Enemy was another well-meant yet disastrous decision. Although it's fair to say the whole tour got screwed over by Chicago, hence him wearing the Chicago Police biker jacket, right?

Alas, none of this can keep me from feeling this gnawing despair when I think of how things could have gone, I'm inclined to agree with Sabine and look towards the future. Which I firmly believe the Sisters could still have, if he only wasn't so damned stubborn.

[Back in time]

Evidence: same setlist (with small cosmetic changes) for like over 10 years. I mean, of course RFH is good song in current live version, playing "Good things" in Belgium is fine but it's still the same setlist, with changed order and so.

You are completely right and if during the gig I would be in the realistic mood of yours, I would be pointing out the same thing.
Fortunately or not, during gig my mood is everything except realistic and imaginary world in which I live during that 82 minutes does not allow me noticing things that you point out.

[Bartek]

That's true, i remember my first gig, i knew setlist long before gig nevertheless i enjoyed it. But second and third didn't made me happy (or glad). It is really like watching rerun of not bad movie- you can enjoy it even that you know the plot and next scenes very well, but only when everything is perfect, otherwise it just boring.

[Mav787]

You are completely right and if during the gig I would be in the realistic mood of yours, I would be pointing out the same thing.
Fortunately or not, during gig my mood is everything except realistic and imaginary world in which I live during that 82 minutes does not allow me noticing things that you point out.

This is exactly how I feel.

But also they do play different songs. The buzz I got in Lokeren last year when they played Good Things and then in Glasgow for A Rock And A Hard Place makes me want to see them every chance I get.

[Bartek]

Walked on my knees to Canossa:
I found huge gap in my 'logic'. We, here, know all songs that TSOM ever wrote and recorded. Therefore we (I) can be bored by listening same setlist over and over again, while other people, who attending at their gigs only remembering or listening 'TC' or 'TOL' might expect listen to/get live very best off (but as we know even them don't get 'cause there are quite few ('new') unreleased songs)- and they had to be pleased not, us, small group of die hard fans (followers).

[Prescott]

Walked on my knees to Canossa:
I found huge gap in my 'logic'. We, here, know all songs that TSOM ever wrote and recorded. Therefore we (I) can be bored by listening same setlist over and over again, while other people, who attending at their gigs only remembering or listening 'TC' or 'TOL' might expect listen to/get live very best off (but as we know even them don't get 'cause there are quite few ('new') unreleased songs)- and they had to be pleased not, us, small group of die hard fans (followers).

Yeah that's a great point! It's true too! When I took some people to the Sisters gigs in 2008 they loved it! - But just imagine the looks on their faces when I tried to answer their obvious questions like "What was THAT song called?" and "What album is it on?" and "What do you mean it's NOT on any album?" and "Well, then is there supposed to be a new album or something on like iTunes or something?"

It's a really f*cking frustrating situation!

[Sita]

I just got the new Peter Murphy album, and I admit, I 'm finally feeling your frustration. Not because of Murphy, it's great - because it reminded me of all the things I've heard Eldritch say over the years 11 tracks "recorded in 7 days" for god's sake!

[il duce]

Every damn time Sisters comes by I get really excited, get a ticket and start warming up. And every damn time I am dissapointed and say to myself: that was the last time, same damn setlist, same damn muddy vocals, and pretty much the same damn t-shirts.

Sadly my memory is to damn short. And the next time they come...

I really hate myself sometimes.

[Prescott]

Every damn time Sisters comes by I get really excited, get a ticket and start warming up. And every damn time I am dissapointed and say to myself: that was the last time, same damn setlist, same damn muddy vocals, and pretty much the same damn t-shirts.

Sadly my memory is to damn short. And the next time they come...

I really hate myself sometimes.

Oh! I think I finally get it!

Adam: "Andrew, your most diehard fans are a bunch of goths that like to be depressed and wear all black all the time."

Andrew: "Let's give 'em something to REALLY be depressed about then!"

[flakk13]

Every damn time Sisters comes by I get really excited, get a ticket and start warming up. And every damn time I am dissapointed and say to myself: that was the last time, same damn setlist, same damn muddy vocals, and pretty much the same damn t-shirts.

Sadly my memory is to damn short. And the next time they come...

I really hate myself sometimes.

Yup, that pretty much sums it up for me, too...

[copper]

There was an interesting quote in a Classic Rock article some years back. I forgot to whom it was attributed, but it went along the lines of:

"Whenever success comes along, Andrew goes the other way."

It certainly describes the man well. IIRC, he was doing rather well with his studies in Leeds Uni back in the early 80s, and was about to graduate as a Chinese translator. A major obstacle (according to him) were the exchange studies he would've needed to complete in the Far East.

I'm not saying he's unable to go the distance when needed, but he does have a track record of dropping the ball and going home when he'd have the opportunity to take a venture to a new level. I think it's level of autonomy that counts. 's preference on that department is obviously "more".

[Dan]

Every damn time Sisters comes by I get really excited, get a ticket and start warming up. And every damn time I am dissapointed and say to myself: that was the last time, same damn setlist, same damn muddy vocals, and pretty much the same damn t-shirts.

Sadly my memory is to damn short. And the next time they come...

I really hate myself sometimes.

I said that, only I stuck to my guns. Last time for me was May 2006.


Not a biggest mistake as such, but I thought the redesigned head & star logo was awful.

[Prescott]

Every damn time Sisters comes by I get really excited, get a ticket and start warming up. And every damn time I am dissapointed and say to myself: that was the last time, same damn setlist, same damn muddy vocals, and pretty much the same damn t-shirts.

Sadly my memory is to damn short. And the next time they come...

I really hate myself sometimes.

I said that, only I stuck to my guns. Last time for me was May 2006.


Not a biggest mistake as such, but I thought the redesigned head & star logo was awful.

Although I agree with you, this is only circumstantially related to the thread topic.

Might I add, that besides SSV, Andrew's biggest mistake is:

Leading us on for over 14 years about a new f^cking album!

[James Blast]

I said that, only I stuck to my guns. Last time for me was May 2006.

Not a biggest mistake as such, but I thought the redesigned head & star logo was awful.

I hear ya man!

if you mean the second 'head cog' version (below) I really liked the first version but I can't find a decent sized version of it

[Bluebell]

The biggest mistake..umm..not to believe that aliens has build the pyramids.

[Dan]

I said that, only I stuck to my guns. Last time for me was May 2006.

Not a biggest mistake as such, but I thought the redesigned head & star logo was awful.

I hear ya man!

if you mean the second 'head cog' version (below) I really liked the first version but I can't find a decent sized version of it

I meant all except the original, but the one you posted is probably the worst.

[James Blast]

nah, this is cool



srsly

[MadameButterfly]

nah, this is cool



srsly

hang on, could you change the backround colour to a purple?

[James Blast]

track 3, side 2 The Dark Side of the Moon dear
or track 8 if you have the CD

gimme a Pantoneâ„¢ ref, I'll sort it

[MadameButterfly]

what's a Pantone (tm) ref?

do you have The Rapture ~ Siouxsie & the Banshees CD?
inside the frame colour of BUDGIE (Drums & Percussion)

that colour purple.