Meine zwei Pfennig

[James Blast]

you say that like it's a bad thing

[dummkopf]

And it seemed to me that dummkopf wasn't "just asking questions" he publically accused Burzum of being a neo-nazi, on only the flimsiest of evidence, and not just once.

I'm not sure I can follow your 'creative thinking' leading up to such assumptions. Especially in light of my follow up statement of it not being an attack on the person behind the nick. If I would want to pick a fight, I'd do it in the real world. Because, on the internet, even if you win, you are still retarded. That being said, I don't care what the user formerly known as Burzum listens to or what goes on in his/her head or what he/she does in real life. To spell this out once more. The initial post/question put "Sisters gegen Nazis" in perspective to a user's nick, that as far as popular culture goes, refers to a musical entity that is the sole outlet of known white supremacist Varg Vikernes. It is not a band, it is one person only. So we can either continue the abstract effort to isolate his musical compositions from his politically charged writings and interviews that get published under the same moniker, or we can accept the fact, that 'the artist' does not bother drawing that particular line himself. Burzum as an entity stands for and represents far more than just a few music releases. Apparently this is far lesser known than I thought. My mistake to think a long explanation like eotunun's was not necessary. I usually keep my feelings of folks rocking Burzum patches/shirts to myself, unless those people approach me in one way or another. In this case I thought it was quite bizarre to a see a nick like that on a board that more or less assembles under the "Sisters gegen Nazis" umbrella. It seemed flat out absurd and I find it irritating, which is what I voiced, phrased as a question. Ban me for it if you like.

Btw, I do listen to plenty of Black Metal. Mayhem's second album on which Vikernes played bass to this very day blows most contemporary music out of the water by a mile. A large chunk of current 'far out' music falls under the Black Metal moniker, well in my book anyway. Blut aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Krallice, Portal, Wolves in the Throne Room, Ash Borer, Wolvserpent...

[Silence is platinum]

Black metal is the worst kind of music ever existed, if you can call it music actually.
Tasteless with ridicilious and sometimes outrageous lyrics, completely stupid looks, and to top it all violence in all it s forms throughout the image and songs.
What kind of childhood did these people had ffs!

"Muisc"wise ,If you have heard one group you ve heard them all.

So disgusting it dosent even deserve to get thrown in the garbage bin.

Go do your f**king eyeliner.

everything i said, you summed it up in your reply.

[lazarus corporation]

It's been rather sad reading this (and the earlier) thread.

I thought the initial post was ill-judged (but not intended to be malicious), but I thought that some of the responses arguing against it have been ... over-zealous to put it mildly. Other responses have of course been alternatively funny, reasonable, and calm. And then some of the counter-responses against the over-zealous responses were equally "over zealous"...

I blame the Tea Party, which seems to have managed to replace calm, reasoned discussion with shrieking mental noise that has no option other than to ramp-up the frenzy with wild accusations countered by even wilder counter-accusations.

Please: don't mimic the tea party - have a nice cup of tea instead.

Here endeth the sermon.

[Bertran De Born]

Btw, I do listen to plenty of Black Metal. Mayhem's second album on which Vikernes played bass to this very day blows most contemporary music out of the water by a mile. A large chunk of current 'far out' music falls under the Black Metal moniker, well in my book anyway. Blut aus Nord, Deathspell Omega, Krallice, Portal, Wolves in the Throne Room, Ash Borer, Wolvserpent...

Gee, I would have never thought I would have said that, but I must admit I actually agree with Dummkopf.
I just think you forgot Xasthur and Leviathan.

[Bertran De Born]

But Dummkopf, I feel kinda offended by the term "Blut aus Nord" you used, which can refer to nordic aryanism...
OK, I go out....

[markfiend]

This is a very long post because I am trying to explain why I drew the conclusions I did.

I'm not sure I can follow your 'creative thinking' leading up to such assumptions. Especially in light of my follow up statement of it not being an attack on the person behind the nick.

I thought that follow-up statement was a bit disingenuous though. It's a little like saying "no offence intended"; you wouldn't bother if what you were saying wasn't likely to give offence. Anyway...

Your original post:

Not to sound like an overly politically correct tool, but am I really the only one that is highly irritated by a user nick like "Burzum" on heartland?

For a large number of us who hadn't a clue who Burzum/Varg Vikernes is, this certainly looks like an unprovoked attack. And the "Sisters Gegen Nazis" thing certainly implies that some aspect of your accusation is to do with nazism. In short, I find it very difficult to escape the conclusion that you're accusing Burzum (HL) of being a nazi.

Then:

For all it's worth, I wasn't questioning let alone attacking the person behind the nick. I was asking what the general take is on promoting artists who's sole artistic drive is to spread racially motivated hate. In my book, picking a certain nick equals 'promoting'. It is a statement, just like adopting the number 88 for a user account name.

I don't see how you can read that as anything other than a direct accusation that Burzum (HL) is "promoting" Burzum/Varg Vikernes, and therefore a nazi. Second time this accusation is made.

like I said before, if actually standing behind and supporting "Sisters gegen Nazis" makes me the bad guy, fair enough. Apparently you never bothered looking into how political indoctrination via subcultures works. In that respect ignorance is bliss, isn't it?!

And now, not happy that your mud won't stick to Burzum(HL), it looks very much like you're trying to throw some more around to the rest of us.

==============================

I still don't think that there's anything wrong with having Burzum as a user-name, especially in light of the explanation given:

Hello there,
Just waking up this morning and loggin in on the forum.... Can you just imagine the movements of my eyebrows?

I dunno what to say to dummkopf apart from:
-gee, when it comes to nicknames, you certainly know your subjects
- you must certainly consider yourself as leftish, and your posts surely reflects your openness, as well as an habit from the 40s called denonciation.
-one of France greatest writer is Louis Ferdinand Celine.he was so anti jew he wrote some pamphlets asking to burn them (litterrally).nevertheless, he is one of those geniuses who chnzged the litterature of this century.I could recommand you read one of his books.
- as we all are huge sisters fans over here, i am sure you must be devastated to support a band whose icon contains a replica from the red army star.You remember the red army, right?
- on a personal level, some members of my family have ended up insome kz crematorium.I happen to have an hebrew tatoo.And i love to be lectured.

Burzum albums (well, most of them) are certainly among the most intense, powerful and emotional piece of music i have heard for ages.
A french humourist said in the 80's: every time i hear Wagner, i want to invade Poland. I can enjoy burzum music without paying attention to his racist speech.oh, and i love Gary Glitter too, and i do not rape my kids when listening to his music.


This makes me so sick. Ithink i will take some time off this place.

==============================

I don't know why you didn't approach Burzum via private message, and failing that by PM to one of the staff here. I think you were wrong to approach the matter in the way you did, but given your obvious unrepentance, you do not. Fair enough. But I'm not going to ban you. All in all this is a difference of opinion. You've explained how you formed your opinion, I've explained how I formed mine.

I'd like to let this lie now please. Burzum has changed his user-name, you've "won" if you like.

WTF is wrong with 88 by the way? The neo-nazi group is Combat18...

[dummkopf]

noted

[MadameButterfly]

there was a place and a time when they trashed threads like this.

markfiend does his best to explain his moderating job & bless you too! you are so open in what you are thinking & how you make decisions...

lock & bin... put ya feet up, bringing your pipe & drink!

[dummkopf]

I just think you forgot Xasthur and Leviathan.

Overrated, imho. Same goes for Weakling.

[mh]

I had to look up "88". To me it's just the year I left secondary school. I could quite easily and naively say something like "88 was fantastic" and end up stirring a whole hornet's nest.

Just goes to show how something innocent for person A could be not-so-innocent for person B, and I reckon both persons A and B should take that into account when forming any kind of judgement.

[Izzy HaveMercy]

Can I listen to the sublime output of Burzum then, a guy to which I am not married and whose ideology I do not approve of, and you can have your Wolves In The Throne Room, a band that openly forbids their fans to enjoy a good headbang or even having fun at concerts... deal!

Everyone is happy now, thanks for explaining Mark, good credits to you for that, tho I find you already spent too much energy in this. All for the good reasons, I daresay, but on a forum where people "think" for a second and have a count-to-ten before hitting the 'reply' button this would probably not have happened...

IZ.

[dummkopf]

Fugazi, a band that openly forbids their fans to enjoy a good headbang or even having fun at concerts... deal!

fixed that for ya.

[Bartek]

WTF is wrong with 88 by the way? The neo-nazi group is Combat18...

Alphabet, a is 1 b is 2 and so, in case it was serious. Salute.

[GC]

WTF is wrong with 88 by the way? T
he neo-nazi group is Combat18...

Alphabet, a is 1 b is 2 and so, in case it was serious. Salute.

Happy Halloween...

[Bertran De Born]

Can I listen to the sublime output of Burzum then, a guy to which I am not married

IZ.

oooohhhh behave

[Bartek]

WTF is wrong with 88 by the way? T
he neo-nazi group is Combat18...

Alphabet, a is 1 b is 2 and so, in case it was serious. Salute.

Happy Halloween...

Happy Hanuka.

coat.

[markfiend]

I knew that the 18 in Combat18 was for AH, so I should have got the 88 one.

My apologies.

[Pista]

This is all getting a bit odd now.
I had a similar experience a year or so ago when I posted a The Cure party invite & graphic with Bob's image from Entreat backed by the Brandenburg Gate.
I have since met with Being645 & alles gut now & there is the personal touch. A PM would have sufficed right?
If a man wants to kill his guitarist, then so be it. He did his time. What his political views are, I couldn't really give a fcuk. Guitarists need to die occasionally.
I moderate on Cureconnections & thankfully I don't need to deal with this sort of thing often.
Hat's off to Mark for what he's done & thanks also for doing it so well.

Now give the guy a break & go talk about the "new" album or something.


ps
Can we have the semi constructed Death Star back please?

[Izzy HaveMercy]

Fugazi, a band that openly forbids their fans to enjoy a good headbang or even having fun at concerts... deal!

fixed that for ya.

Oof!

IZ.

[markfiend]

Just an FYI:

I am willing to admit that I made some mistakes dealing with this issue (particularly I don't think I should have threatened to ban dummkopf).

But it's all done now. Burzum isn't Burzum any more. And we're all still friends.

Right?

[Ahráyeph]

Just my hair splitting two cents : Sita, you say you're an art historian, yet you don't know Vikings lived in Denmark? It's the Norsemen who lived in Norway, which kind of makes sense, as it's called, eh, Norway. You'd expect Norsemen to live there, no?

Second : as a historian, you surely can't claim that the burned churches hail from the Norsemen era (by which I mean when all the plundering and pillaging and raping happened). At that time, they were still as pagan as they got, and even when they got xianised later on, they retained much of their pagan history and traditions. The Edda, for example, was written during the xian era, but is by and large a pagan book.

Judeo-christianity has always had a knack for usurping pagan sacred grounds and building churches on it in order to stamp out the orginal belief systems and replace them with their own dogmas. Not saying burning them down now should be condoned or encouraged, but I can understand the reasoning, because in essence, those buildings destroyed what was sacred to the heathens of yore merely by having been erected in the first place.

Like I said : hair splitting perhaps, but then, being a history buff myself I like history references to be correct, especially out of the mouths of babes... I mean : historians of any field of expertise...

As for Vikernes : he's an erse who, for being rather intelligent, has some highly deplorable values but makes interesting music. Reminds me of someone else I myself used to write interesting music for (although the level of intelligence of that person is rather debatable as it's more of a pose than actual intelligence)...

[Ahráyeph]

Guitarists need to die occasionally.

As a guitarist, I agree.

[million voices]

Well I for one am jolly glad that everybody is all chums again

Is this thread finished with or is it going to splutter on and on until The Sissies do something interesting

[Sita]

Ahráyeph - thanks, I agree overall but disagree in some conclusions. Let's just discuss this fascinating topic pre or post the next Sisters gig over a drink. There is no use getting into this in a public forum with a 100:1 anonymous vs. registered user ratio. Who, except a few geeks, cares anyway? But in case you got a different impression, I am with Nietzsche (or Richard Dawkins) on Christianity