Wayne on the Sisters.....

[playboy]

The Sisters ARE NOT goff.

Of course they are. They helped invent it for Chrissakes!





Sorry Sabine

... no worries, ribbons ... ... for whatever The Sisters are, I love my goth fellow-Sisters fans as much as any others ...


@ playboy
Did I tell you I'm pretty sure that the secret Sisters album hidden in the very last corner of some late 90ies cupboard is full of Reggae ... ...

...

Hehe, yeah, Andrew would do ANYTHING to get rid of the goth label. Some fans would then of course saying about this reaggae album "wow, this is their best goth album by far!", just because Andrew is singing, Doktor Avalanche is playing drums, and it says The Sisters Of Mercy on the album cover.

Poor Andrew, fans has really painted him in a very dark and gothy corner.

[playboy]

Sorry people, but isn't it kind of boring, that the "Wayne on the sisters..."-thread is the most vivid thread in this forum...

It is VERY sad and boring. But discussing Wayne (read talking bad about) has been a main thing to discuss amongst some Sisters fans for the past 25 years....

[Being645]

And whilst we're on the subject of TSOM's genre, I never bought into the "industrial" part of Von's "groove machine" epithet. Even at their wilder moments (eg Ribbons), The Sisters were hardly Ministry...

For which we should be eternally grateful. The "indistrial" part is actually a reference to a much older definition of "industrial" (before certain other bands hijacked it) (but not the oldest) and would include certain elements of the Sisters output in a similar category as Front 242, Skinny Puppy and Front Line Assembly. The Gift LP and much of Floodland certainly fits in here.

Hihi ... for me, that's always been a joke in leniency about music itself and the music business ... completely independent from any genre ...

[moses]

And whilst we're on the subject of TSOM's genre, I never bought into the "industrial" part of Von's "groove machine" epithet. Even at their wilder moments (eg Ribbons), The Sisters were hardly Ministry...

For which we should be eternally grateful. The "indistrial" part is actually a reference to a much older definition of "industrial" (before certain other bands hijacked it) (but not the oldest) and would include certain elements of the Sisters output in a similar category as Front 242, Skinny Puppy and Front Line Assembly. The Gift LP and much of Floodland certainly fits in here.

I don't buy into the 'Groove' part neither, how can it be groovy without a bass guitar??
Front 242, Skinny Puppy and Front Line Assembly???? Surely only by association? At what point and what elements?
Where the Bunnymen goths or industrial when they used a drum machine?

[Silver_Owl]

This is one of the most futile discussions Ive seen on here. And believe me I've seen some futile discusisons on here.

[Quiff Boy]

This is amphetamine logic....
So, if a great majority of the fans are or were gay, it meant that Andrew is gay? And, of course, Robbie Williams is actually a woman since the great majority of his fans are girls..

amphetamine logic maybe, but at least it makes sense. your comparisons are not valid in the slightest.

if a band have 300,000 fans and 280,000 of them are goths, the band may as well be a goth band. you might be one of the 20,000 that aren't goths, but as far as the whole world is concerned They Are A Goth Band.

and outside of these hallowed walls it really doesn't matter how the hell a self-important singer in a band with diminishing popularity chooses to describe his band's music.

if the whole world thinks it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it may as well be a duck.

and it would be better served by stopping pretending to be a f*cking penguin and embrace it's inner duckness.

if you see what i mean.

it's about perception: how a band is perceived by the majority of the world.

labels you assign to yourself don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. they influence nothing and in the end, when you leave the room, they will count for nothing in the minds of those left in that room.

only those labels assigned by everyone else will stick.

what i'm saying is they might not want to be be a goth band, but they may as well be a goth band, for all the difference their protestations make.

No, the fans does not make a band anything. At all.
Goths just have difficulties in moving on. If Andrew made a jazzalbum I am sure the goths would buy the album anyway. But it does not meen that jazz suddenly is goth.

but it would bring the genre to a new audience

bix beiderbecke and the chorus of vengeance, anyone?

[playboy]

This is amphetamine logic....
So, if a great majority of the fans are or were gay, it meant that Andrew is gay? And, of course, Robbie Williams is actually a woman since the great majority of his fans are girls..

amphetamine logic maybe, but at least it makes sense. your comparisons are not valid in the slightest.

if a band have 300,000 fans and 280,000 of them are goths, the band may as well be a goth band. you might be one of the 20,000 that aren't goths, but as far as the whole world is concerned They Are A Goth Band.

and outside of these hallowed walls it really doesn't matter how the hell a self-important singer in a band with diminishing popularity chooses to describe his band's music.

if the whole world thinks it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it may as well be a duck.

and it would be better served by stopping pretending to be a f*cking penguin and embrace it's inner duckness.

if you see what i mean.

it's about perception: how a band is perceived by the majority of the world.

labels you assign to yourself don't really matter in the grand scheme of things. they influence nothing and in the end, when you leave the room, they will count for nothing in the minds of those left in that room.

only those labels assigned by everyone else will stick.

what i'm saying is they might not want to be be a goth band, but they may as well be a goth band, for all the difference their protestations make.

No, the fans does not make a band anything. At all.
Goths just have difficulties in moving on. If Andrew made a jazzalbum I am sure the goths would buy the album anyway. But it does not meen that jazz suddenly is goth.

but it would bring the genre to a new audience

bix beiderbecke and the chorus of vengeance, anyone?

As Andrew once said: "We get a lot of housewives turning up to the gigs, but no-one calls us a housewifeband."

Yes, it would bring the jazz-genre to a new audience if Andrew made a jazz record. Still, it would be a jazz-record. Belonging to the jazz-genre. The band would be a jazz band.
You are right saying that Sisters is labelled as a goth band cause they have some goth fans. But wrongly so. At least today, it was more relevant in the early days when they at least sounded in some way and dressed in some way as "goths". Even if it was wrong even then. I saw them in 1985. Not much goths in the audience.....

That goes for today as well in some countries. I have seen them in places and countries where they were no more goths than at a U2 or a David Bowie show. And I sure hope that you don´t consider them as well to be goths.

[Quiff Boy]

that's because you can't tell a housewifeband just by looking at what they wear, what their songs are about, or what their music sounds like.

i've probably got several records by housewifebands in my collection without even knowing...





maybe it's just a uk thing? (and maybe german and american too)

[DeWinter]

Hehe, yeah, Andrew would do ANYTHING to get rid of the goth label. Some fans would then of course saying about this reaggae album "wow, this is their best goth album by far!", just because Andrew is singing, Doktor Avalanche is playing drums, and it says The Sisters Of Mercy on the album cover.

Poor Andrew, fans has really painted him in a very dark and gothy corner.

So in order to get rid of said label he hired a woman for Floodland with Black Number Nine hair teased a foot high, with Eye of Horus eyeliner clad in bits of lace and black vinyl. And of course himself wore black from dyed head to pointy booted toe?
Let's face it, he rode the Goth wave when it was fashionable and ditched it when it wasn't in an attempt to conquer the States, just like The Cult did beforehand. Difference being The Cult managed it due to not being stupid enough to pen a song about Mother Russia bombing their country.

[DeWinter]

Sorry people, but isn't it kind of boring, that the "Wayne on the sisters..."-thread is the most vivid thread in this forum...

Not much else to discuss regarding the band now. There won't be another album, the new songs are ten years old and mediocre at best, and the band has a reputation for ok to abysmal live performances of the songs nobody much likes played by average hired hands. Largely why I went off the band and drift back into them when I come across "This Corrosion" in the "Alternative 80's" page in the jukebox!

[playboy]

Hehe, yeah, Andrew would do ANYTHING to get rid of the goth label. Some fans would then of course saying about this reaggae album "wow, this is their best goth album by far!", just because Andrew is singing, Doktor Avalanche is playing drums, and it says The Sisters Of Mercy on the album cover.

Poor Andrew, fans has really painted him in a very dark and gothy corner.

... And of course himself wore black from dyed head to pointy booted toe?
.

Aha, you are talking about Roy Orbison. All dressed in black, dark shades, dark hair etc etc. He is more goth than Andrew. He never stopped his black look. The gothfather himself.
Not to mention Lasse Åberg. If you don´t know him look him up. May not look like a goth but he once said: "I´m wearing black till I find something darker".
Now we´re talking goth........

[playboy]

that's because you can't tell a housewifeband just by looking at what they wear, what their songs are about, or what their music sounds like.

i've probably got several records by housewifebands in my collection without even knowing...





maybe it's just a uk thing? (and maybe german and american too)

I can certainly not telling that sisters would be a gothband just looking at a picture of them today.

But come to think of it... Andrew once were a dress at a concert...... My God, the ARE a housewife band...

[Quiff Boy]

Aha, you are talking about Roy Orbison. All dressed in black, dark shades, dark hair etc etc. He is more goth than Andrew. He never stopped his black look. The gothfather himself.

you're probably being sarcastic but i actually think you're correct.

[playboy]

Sorry people, but isn't it kind of boring, that the "Wayne on the sisters..."-thread is the most vivid thread in this forum...

Not much else to discuss regarding the band now. There won't be another album, the new songs are ten years old and mediocre at best, and the band has a reputation for ok to abysmal live performances of the songs nobody much likes played by average hired hands. Largely why I went off the band and drift back into them when I come across "This Corrosion" in the "Alternative 80's" page in the jukebox!

You are so right. And I must say it is sad. Time seems to stand still in Sisters-land. I still can see Susanne as a new song but hell, it is soon 14 years old.

One thing I don´t understand though - Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs, identical show every year, very few new songs.

It is not the brightest thing to play No Time To Cry, A Rock And A Hard Place, Marian, First And Last And Always, Anaconda, Alice, Body Electric, This Corriosion, More, Ribbons, Vision Thing, Train, Detonation Boulevard, Temple Of Love etc and at the samt time trying to ignore the past. As long as these songs are played and no album is released the past will haunt him.

[playboy]

Aha, you are talking about Roy Orbison. All dressed in black, dark shades, dark hair etc etc. He is more goth than Andrew. He never stopped his black look. The gothfather himself.

you're probably being sarcastic but i actually think you're correct.

To be honest, the first time I saw them live I had never saw a picture of them, had all the singles and stuff but they had no pictures on them. When they got up on stage I was amazed by Andrew. I thought he was a crossover between Roy Orbison and Clint Eastwood.

[Quiff Boy]

When they got up on stage I was amazed by Andrew. I thought he was a crossover between Roy Orbison and Clint Eastwood.

[Being645]

Sorry people, but isn't it kind of boring, that the "Wayne on the sisters..."-thread is the most vivid thread in this forum...

Not much else to discuss regarding the band now. There won't be another album, the new songs are ten years old and mediocre at best, and the band has a reputation for ok to abysmal live performances of the songs nobody much likes played by average hired hands. Largely why I went off the band and drift back into them when I come across "This Corrosion" in the "Alternative 80's" page in the jukebox!

You are so right. And I must say it is sad. Time seems to stand still in Sisters-land. I still can see Susanne as a new song but hell, it is soon 14 years old.

One thing I don´t understand though - Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs, identical show every year, very few new songs.

It is not the brightest thing to play No Time To Cry, A Rock And A Hard Place, Marian, First And Last And Always, Anaconda, Alice, Body Electric, This Corriosion, More, Ribbons, Vision Thing, Train, Detonation Boulevard, Temple Of Love etc and at the samt time trying to ignore the past. As long as these songs are played and no album is released the past will haunt him.

Very wrong, playboy. It's not some abstract past that haunts him, but acutal people who spare no effort to talk everything down he undertakes, not at the least thinking of - just for example - the fact that The Sisters have mostly been a band and as such consist of more than only one member. But belittling all other members - nowadays as much as in the past - as hired hands ... or dumping whatever other dirt at hand over them is just so easy and sounds just so simple and therefore catchy.

And this would of course not change with some new release. For the purpose is clearly the very same it was back in the days - to win them/him over by provocation, by frustration, by manipulation, by propaganda ... like the common territorial pisser at the corner of your garden ... sorry to say, but that's just too obvious.

[lachert]

wonder, is this s**t back every autumn?

[Drsisters]

Seems every band have a slight simular problem...

Lemmy mentions in white line fever that he never considered Motorhead as a heavy metal band.. instead punk in played very fast

[markfiend]

Very wrong, playboy. It's not some abstract past that haunts him, but acutal people who spare no effort to talk everything down he undertakes, not at the least thinking of - just for example - the fact that The Sisters have mostly been a band and as such consist of more than only one member. But belittling all other members - nowadays as much as in the past - as hired hands ... or dumping whatever other dirt at hand over them is just so easy and sounds just so simple and therefore catchy.

And this would of course not change with some new release. For the purpose is clearly the very same it was back in the days - to win them/him over by provocation, by frustration, by manipulation, by propaganda ... like the common territorial pisser at the corner of your garden ... sorry to say, but that's just too obvious.

I agree.

[playboy]

Not much else to discuss regarding the band now. There won't be another album, the new songs are ten years old and mediocre at best, and the band has a reputation for ok to abysmal live performances of the songs nobody much likes played by average hired hands. Largely why I went off the band and drift back into them when I come across "This Corrosion" in the "Alternative 80's" page in the jukebox!

You are so right. And I must say it is sad. Time seems to stand still in Sisters-land. I still can see Susanne as a new song but hell, it is soon 14 years old.

One thing I don´t understand though - Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs, identical show every year, very few new songs.

It is not the brightest thing to play No Time To Cry, A Rock And A Hard Place, Marian, First And Last And Always, Anaconda, Alice, Body Electric, This Corriosion, More, Ribbons, Vision Thing, Train, Detonation Boulevard, Temple Of Love etc and at the samt time trying to ignore the past. As long as these songs are played and no album is released the past will haunt him.

Very wrong, playboy. It's not some abstract past that haunts him, but acutal people who spare no effort to talk everything down he undertakes, not at the least thinking of - just for example - the fact that The Sisters have mostly been a band and as such consist of more than only one member. But belittling all other members - nowadays as much as in the past - as hired hands ... or dumping whatever other dirt at hand over them is just so easy and sounds just so simple and therefore catchy.

And this would of course not change with some new release. For the purpose is clearly the very same it was back in the days - to win them/him over by provocation, by frustration, by manipulation, by propaganda ... like the common territorial pisser at the corner of your garden ... sorry to say, but that's just too obvious.

sorry to say, but I don´t understand....

by the way, the fans used to understand the Sisters, and Andrew understood us. It was Sisters + the fans, there was a relation between the two. We were on the same side, believe it or not.
Looking at the fact that Andrew has grown and looking forward while the fans remains the same, lingering on to the gothic lifestile, it is understandable that Andrew no longer is on the same side as the fans, and no longer is giving us what we want.
Does anyone believe that the tour next year will be much different from the past five, six or seven years (cannot really remember how long this "same as ever" tour has been going on.

[playboy]

wonder, is this s**t back every autumn?

wonder, is the same setlist back every year?

[DeWinter]

You are so right. And I must say it is sad. Time seems to stand still in Sisters-land. I still can see Susanne as a new song but hell, it is soon 14 years old.

One thing I don´t understand though - Andrew keeps telling that he doesn´t like to look back, doesn´t want to the gigs to be a nostalgia trip, trying to re-invent the band.
Still, playing the old songs, identical show every year, very few new songs.

It is not the brightest thing to play No Time To Cry, A Rock And A Hard Place, Marian, First And Last And Always, Anaconda, Alice, Body Electric, This Corriosion, More, Ribbons, Vision Thing, Train, Detonation Boulevard, Temple Of Love etc and at the samt time trying to ignore the past. As long as these songs are played and no album is released the past will haunt him.

Very wrong, playboy. It's not some abstract past that haunts him, but acutal people who spare no effort to talk everything down he undertakes, not at the least thinking of - just for example - the fact that The Sisters have mostly been a band and as such consist of more than only one member. But belittling all other members - nowadays as much as in the past - as hired hands ... or dumping whatever other dirt at hand over them is just so easy and sounds just so simple and therefore catchy.

And this would of course not change with some new release. For the purpose is clearly the very same it was back in the days - to win them/him over by provocation, by frustration, by manipulation, by propaganda ... like the common territorial pisser at the corner of your garden ... sorry to say, but that's just too obvious.

Nothing I've said is untrue though.

As for Andrew "The bastard public/derelict spiv nation/we're a rock and roll band, what did you come dressed as??*" Taylor, he has made his contempt for his own fanbase abundantly clear over the years. That's why it's diminishing and the band are playing smaller venues. Can't be too surprised if that gets sent right back at him from his former fanbase.If he releases anything new and it's good, I'll happily pay to listen to it at home and live. As it is, he hasn't for donkeys years. So he can go p*ss up a rope and get some other poor sap willing to spend their hard-earned on watching him live and paying for him to do bugger all. The idea that I'd try and provoke him into releasing something is almost as daft as him actually doing that.

*
There's an article on a German fansite mentioning that little witticism, and a reply from someone actually at the concert. Apparently the lady in question was a rather chatty and pleasant lady, who was almost in tears at that little public humiliation Taylor dumped on her. They had to persuade her she misheard what he'd actually said. Amusingly the crowd did start chanting "F*ck off Eldritch" at him at one concert. You gets what you gives..

[_emma_]

wonder, is this s**t back every autumn?

wonder, is the same setlist back every year?

But the setlists do change.
And

by the way, the fans used to understand the Sisters, and Andrew understood us. It was Sisters + the fans, there was a relation between the two. We were on the same side, believe it or not.
Looking at the fact that Andrew has grown and looking forward while the fans remains the same, lingering on to the gothic lifestile, it is understandable that Andrew no longer is on the same side as the fans, and no longer is giving us what we want.

The way you put it, it seems like "the fans" (or "we", as you name it later) are one big organism with one heart, one soul and one mind. I feel that I must openly disagree with this. "The fans" are multiple, various, and often totally different people, and I'm absolutely undoubtedly sure that amongst them there is a considerable number of people who understand The Sisters, and who are understood by them, and I am also sure that there is a very positive relation between the two, and that they are both still on the very same side.

[shiver]

...
and it would be better served by stopping pretending to be a f*cking penguin and embrace it's inner duckness.
...

I have had a s**t day. This made me laugh. Thank you.