I would have thought that within in a pseudo-politically interested group it would have been worth a mention. So to make it more interesting a topic.....
What do you think That Guitarist would make of the death of Kim Yong Il and it's knock on effect to the rest of the World?
North Korea
>Implying Hussey it's a political guy 
Project Personal Dok
Hardware: 100% (Single Hackintosh)
AU: 90%
Software: 90%
The Final Floorshow - My Own Sisters T-Shirt Shop
Hardware: 100% (Single Hackintosh)
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The Final Floorshow - My Own Sisters T-Shirt Shop
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timsinister
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Might be easier to play a Final Gig there?moses wrote: What do you think That Guitarist would make of the death of Kim Yong Il and it's knock on effect to the rest of the World?
>mfwhusek wrote:>Implying Hussey it's a political guy
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markfiend
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What? L'il Kim died?moses wrote:What do you think That Guitarist would make of the death of Kim Yong Il and it's knock on effect to the rest of the World?
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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Quiff Boy
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from channel 4 news
http://bcove.me/kokxy90y
approx 3 minutes in...
i love this guy's description of his 3 sons 
http://bcove.me/kokxy90y
approx 3 minutes in...
i love this guy's description of his 3 sons
Paul French wrote:If you've got 2 or 3 kids to choose from and you're going to choose one to follow you, you can have the one who tried to go to Tokyo Disneyland on a false passport several times, the one who likes to go to Macau and gamble, or you can have the quiet one who's been at a Swiss finishing school. I mean, which one would you choose?
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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Quiff Boy
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Having said that, it's always the quiet ones you have to watch out for when it comes you potential dictators... the more outlandish ones tend to be fairly predictable in their insanity.
What’s the difference between a buffalo and a bison?
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sultan2075
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It's probably the most monstrously evil regime in existence right now.
Honestly, words fail me. Anyone who knows what goes on in North Korea and doesn't have white-hot loathing for that regime has somehow fallen beneath the level of humanity. Just go read about human rights in North Korea. Or life in the many, many prison camps that are scattered throughout the country. There are people who are born in those camps and will never leave them. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
I don't think it will be improved by the ascension of Eun to power, either. By all accounts, he's an absolute sadist. There is no reason for hope, and when that government does, eventually, collapse, it will be truly horrific.
Honestly, words fail me. Anyone who knows what goes on in North Korea and doesn't have white-hot loathing for that regime has somehow fallen beneath the level of humanity. Just go read about human rights in North Korea. Or life in the many, many prison camps that are scattered throughout the country. There are people who are born in those camps and will never leave them. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
I don't think it will be improved by the ascension of Eun to power, either. By all accounts, he's an absolute sadist. There is no reason for hope, and when that government does, eventually, collapse, it will be truly horrific.
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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markfiend
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All flippancy aside, you are of course right. Almost all of the country's population are living in abject poverty and near starvation while the ruling elite lives in luxury.
The danger is, as far as I can tell, that when (not if) N Korea implodes it'll suck the south into the inevitable civil war...
The danger is, as far as I can tell, that when (not if) N Korea implodes it'll suck the south into the inevitable civil war...
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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damagedone
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I wonder what happened to their football team after the World Cup?Some said they went mining,being tortured and etc.The crazy besterds decided to broadcast live the game against Portugal,,,what were they thinking?
I really felt sorry for these players after the final whistle
I really felt sorry for these players after the final whistle
Keep Music Evil
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moses
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How do you know this? I've always found it hard to get any kind of reliable information regarding the inner workings of North Korea.sultan2075 wrote:It's probably the most monstrously evil regime in existence right now.
Honestly, words fail me. Anyone who knows what goes on in North Korea and doesn't have white-hot loathing for that regime has somehow fallen beneath the level of humanity. Just go read about human rights in North Korea. Or life in the many, many prison camps that are scattered throughout the country. There are people who are born in those camps and will never leave them. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
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sultan2075
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I'd imagine that when it implodes there will be a paroxysm of violence, and Seoul will be destroyed; NK essentially holds it hostage now, having it in the sights of their artillery on the other side of the DMZ. That's why nobody can do anything about it. The refugee crisis will be worse than anything the world has ever seen, and not just because of the poverty: the people have been malnourished for so long that they are said to be developmentally stunted. They are known to be shorter than their cousins to the South, for instance. They have been brainwashed for generation upon generation, believing themselves to be superior to all other peoples and nations. How does one integrate a kingdom full of racist dwarves, who lack any skills for coping in the modern world, into the modern world? Both China and South Korea must be terrified of this prospect.markfiend wrote:All flippancy aside, you are of course right. Almost all of the country's population are living in abject poverty and near starvation while the ruling elite lives in luxury.
The danger is, as far as I can tell, that when (not if) N Korea implodes it'll suck the south into the inevitable civil war...
What has gone on in North Korea is horrific. What we know of it is horrific. I doubt we know even the half of it.
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
Sounds like an awful lot of assumption there. Any hard facts to support it? Especially the highly enlightened "a kingdom* full of racist dwarves" bit?sultan2075 wrote:I'd imagine that when it implodes there will be a paroxysm of violence, and Seoul will be destroyed; NK essentially holds it hostage now, having it in the sights of their artillery on the other side of the DMZ. That's why nobody can do anything about it. The refugee crisis will be worse than anything the world has ever seen, and not just because of the poverty: the people have been malnourished for so long that they are said to be developmentally stunted. They are known to be shorter than their cousins to the South, for instance. They have been brainwashed for generation upon generation, believing themselves to be superior to all other peoples and nations. How does one integrate a kingdom full of racist dwarves, who lack any skills for coping in the modern world, into the modern world? Both China and South Korea must be terrified of this prospect.
What has gone on in North Korea is horrific. What we know of it is horrific. I doubt we know even the half of it.
*There's one factual error for a start. It's a republic, not a kingdom.
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Being645
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For your basic information (and as a starter) this should do ...moses wrote:How do you know this? I've always found it hard to get any kind of reliable information regarding the inner workings of North Korea.sultan2075 wrote:It's probably the most monstrously evil regime in existence right now.
Honestly, words fail me. Anyone who knows what goes on in North Korea and doesn't have white-hot loathing for that regime has somehow fallen beneath the level of humanity. Just go read about human rights in North Korea. Or life in the many, many prison camps that are scattered throughout the country. There are people who are born in those camps and will never leave them. And there is nothing anyone can do about it.
You can of course go into detail along these publications for example ...
@stufarq
Maybe, this is not so far-fetched as it might sound to you ...
Thinking of Nazi-Germany - nobody believed what was going on there until they stood at the doors of Dachau and Auschwitz ...
...
Last edited by Being645 on 22 Dec 2011, 20:46, edited 1 time in total.
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sultan2075
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Christ almighty. If you think the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is democratic or a republic, you are either ignorant or deluded.stufarq wrote:Sounds like an awful lot of assumption there. Any hard facts to support it? Especially the highly enlightened "a kingdom* full of racist dwarves" bit?sultan2075 wrote:I'd imagine that when it implodes there will be a paroxysm of violence, and Seoul will be destroyed; NK essentially holds it hostage now, having it in the sights of their artillery on the other side of the DMZ. That's why nobody can do anything about it. The refugee crisis will be worse than anything the world has ever seen, and not just because of the poverty: the people have been malnourished for so long that they are said to be developmentally stunted. They are known to be shorter than their cousins to the South, for instance. They have been brainwashed for generation upon generation, believing themselves to be superior to all other peoples and nations. How does one integrate a kingdom full of racist dwarves, who lack any skills for coping in the modern world, into the modern world? Both China and South Korea must be terrified of this prospect.
What has gone on in North Korea is horrific. What we know of it is horrific. I doubt we know even the half of it.
*There's one factual error for a start. It's a republic, not a kingdom.
Start here: (this is where I borrowed the "racist dwarves" line from. It is also commonly referred to as a "hermit kingdom"): http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... warfs.html
Then read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_righ ... orth_Korea
and be sure to follow the links to the articles on specific prison camps.
Then skim through the articles here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:H ... orth_Korea
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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million voices
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A kingdom of racist dwarves is bound to lead to apart-height at the very least.
Well you must know something
'Cos we're dying of admiration here
Mastering obscure alternatives
'Cos we're dying of admiration here
Mastering obscure alternatives
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
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At least we currently have a US govt. with the common sense to sit back and let the new guy establish a power base before attempting to bring about change, rather than blundering into some unsubtle "diplomacy" which would only inflame the situation further.
In the medium term, change will clearly come to DPRK, as it did to Albania, South Africa, Ireland and Germany before them. It will just take longer than we in the West would like. Meanwhile, in the Soviet-style Yanggakdo hotel in downtown Pyongyang, Dr Jeep will doubtless be still tickling the ivories ...
In the medium term, change will clearly come to DPRK, as it did to Albania, South Africa, Ireland and Germany before them. It will just take longer than we in the West would like. Meanwhile, in the Soviet-style Yanggakdo hotel in downtown Pyongyang, Dr Jeep will doubtless be still tickling the ivories ...
China, South Korea and Japan aren't interested in unification of Korea peninsula/ nation at the moment, and i can't imagine when they could be, taking huge economical/infrastructure/wealth differences of develop in both Korea's. But all those and NATO are interested in stopping develop nuclear program by NK, but again Iran (and few other less stable, predictable and democratic countries, who probably didn't buy anything from NK) see in NK business partner, since they bought nuclear and rocket know-how from NK. (Yes, i know that Russia helping/helped Iran in this case, but not that much.)
And don't forget how world looked about 30 years ago- in USSR (CCCP) and eastern block propaganda machine worked well; they also tried to pour in people heads that they live in better part of the word, that they were better, smarter, higher on ethic level and so. And we know how it ends; people who lived there weren't that stupid as other (western) thought, so is more that likely that there is small resistance group(s) there. Problem with North Korea is that Kim's family and regime learned something from history and they're doing everything they can to not let people how rest of the world looks like and there is other world where everyone can try to achieve more that just survive next day.
I'd like to see in this naive questions a cheap provocations, because i can't imagine that anyone would like to believe that all that horrific stories about NK is one big lie.
Besides wikipedia and AI, there were written at least few books based of data, sometimes even intelligence reports, UN documents, first eye-witness testimony (not only those lucky people who runaway leaving their families). There was quite recent documentaries made by French reporters who were there.
And don't forget how world looked about 30 years ago- in USSR (CCCP) and eastern block propaganda machine worked well; they also tried to pour in people heads that they live in better part of the word, that they were better, smarter, higher on ethic level and so. And we know how it ends; people who lived there weren't that stupid as other (western) thought, so is more that likely that there is small resistance group(s) there. Problem with North Korea is that Kim's family and regime learned something from history and they're doing everything they can to not let people how rest of the world looks like and there is other world where everyone can try to achieve more that just survive next day.
I'd like to see in this naive questions a cheap provocations, because i can't imagine that anyone would like to believe that all that horrific stories about NK is one big lie.
Besides wikipedia and AI, there were written at least few books based of data, sometimes even intelligence reports, UN documents, first eye-witness testimony (not only those lucky people who runaway leaving their families). There was quite recent documentaries made by French reporters who were there.
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sultan2075
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Fucking brilliant. It took me a second.million voices wrote:A kingdom of racist dwarves is bound to lead to apart-height at the very least.
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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markfiend
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There are a few (not many, but a few) escapees from the North to the South, so we know some things from them.
What would you call a country where absolute power passed from father to son, and now to grandson? Kingdom fits the bill pretty well IMO.
What would you call a country where absolute power passed from father to son, and now to grandson? Kingdom fits the bill pretty well IMO.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
Didn't say it was democratic. Neither am I ignorant nor deluded. Nor abusive. And certainly not ignorant to brand an entire people "racist dwarves", even if I was just repeating someone else's term.sultan2075 wrote:Christ almighty. If you think the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is democratic or a republic, you are either ignorant or deluded.
You've provided some sources, for which thanks (although we all know that Wiki isn't the most reliable) but the post I quoted used phrases like "I'd imagine", speculation following on from that and the aforementioned offensive stereotyping of an entire nation. That's why I pulled you up. An informative political discussion is fine but that didn't really qualify.
I didn't say it was far-fetched. I said there's a difference between fact and assumption or speculation. I'm aware that North Korea has a terrible human rights record and that naming your successor isn't the act of a true republican. I'm also aware that any country that names itself a Democratic or People's Republic is neither democratic nor a republic. But sultan2075 had been asked where he/she got their information from and responded with speculation and a new term of abuse for North Koreans as a whole. I was specifically addressing that.Being645 wrote:Maybe, this is not so far-fetched as it might sound to you ...
Thinking of Nazi-Germany - nobody believed what was going on there until they stood at the doors of Dachau and Auschwitz ...
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million voices
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Do you think the North Koreans will be able to keep up with the Joneses?
Well you must know something
'Cos we're dying of admiration here
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'Cos we're dying of admiration here
Mastering obscure alternatives
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sultan2075
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Sorry for hurting your feelings. You did say it was a republic. However, sticking feathers in your rear-end doesn't make you a chicken, anymore than calling a nation a republic makes it a republic. I am not sure why you are whining about the racist dwarves crack either: the North Korean people are, as rule, shorter, because they are developmentally stunted as a result of chronic malnutrition, and North Korean propaganda has convinced them that they are superior to all other peoples and nations, including their southern cousins. Was it just too flippant for you? If you prefer "vertically-challenged xenophobes" that's your business.stufarq wrote:Didn't say it was democratic. Neither am I ignorant nor deluded. Nor abusive. And certainly not ignorant to brand an entire people "racist dwarves", even if I was just repeating someone else's term.sultan2075 wrote:Christ almighty. If you think the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is democratic or a republic, you are either ignorant or deluded.
You've provided some sources, for which thanks (although we all know that Wiki isn't the most reliable) but the post I quoted used phrases like "I'd imagine", speculation following on from that and the aforementioned offensive stereotyping of an entire nation. That's why I pulled you up. An informative political discussion is fine but that didn't really qualify.I didn't say it was far-fetched. I said there's a difference between fact and assumption or speculation. I'm aware that North Korea has a terrible human rights record and that naming your successor isn't the act of a true republican. I'm also aware that any country that names itself a Democratic or People's Republic is neither democratic nor a republic. But sultan2075 had been asked where he/she got their information from and responded with speculation and a new term of abuse for North Koreans as a whole. I was specifically addressing that.Being645 wrote:Maybe, this is not so far-fetched as it might sound to you ...
Thinking of Nazi-Germany - nobody believed what was going on there until they stood at the doors of Dachau and Auschwitz ...
As for the use of the phrase "I'd imagine," well... I don't have a crystal ball. I was talking about what would likely happen when the government falls. It hasn't happened yet. Since I lack a crystal ball, I use my imagination to think about what the future might hold. Hence, I used the verb "imagine." Is it speculative? Of course it is. The future hasn't happened yet.
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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moses
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Said the racist Anglo-SaxonDeWinter wrote:Oh I don't know about not being able to integrate resentful racist dwarves, we've made great strides with the Welsh. :>
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity