and because of that, the real truth is out.
to the independent panel. x infinity for everyone who fought for today.Hillsborough
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emilystrange
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YWNA.
and because of that, the real truth is out. to the independent panel.
x infinity for everyone who fought for today.
and because of that, the real truth is out.
to the independent panel. x infinity for everyone who fought for today. I don't wanna live like I don't mind
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
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Seconded. Was there on that fateful day (in the other end from the Leppings Lane) and everyone knew from the start what the real truth was. Today's apologies are too little, too late, and sound rather hollow.emilystrange wrote:YWNA.
and because of that, the real truth is out.
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emilystrange
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words are useless in the face of that.
I don't wanna live like I don't mind
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Izzy HaveMercy
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Its a football thing, no 
IZ.
IZ.
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Silver_Owl
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It's a crying shame that it's taken this long for anyone to man up.
To put the families and friends through the last few years of suffering is unforgivable, no matter how many apologies they receive.
To put the families and friends through the last few years of suffering is unforgivable, no matter how many apologies they receive.
We forgive as we forget
As the day is long.
As the day is long.
More a spectacularly brazen police cover-up thing now.Izzy HaveMercy wrote:Its a football thing, no
IZ.
A lot of people accepted the police version of events after the pretty sickening behaviour of Liverpool fans in Heysel. Seems as if the South Yorkshire police took advantage of that to cover up their own mistakes and went on a massive smear campaign with the (unwitting perhaps, but gleeful) help of the likes of Kelvin McKensie of "The Sun".
Considering how critical of the police the official report in the early 90's was, it makes you wonder what it might have been had the full facts been known. Bit confused as to why Cameron's apologising for it though. No doing of his, or even his party.
"Vengeance. Justice. Fire and blood.."
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markfiend
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DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.
Thatcher was PM at the time...The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
Now why doesn't that surprise me?markfiend wrote:DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.
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markfiend
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I'd blame her for the great Fire of LondonDeWinter wrote:Bit of a stretch to blame her or the Conservatives though.markfiend wrote:DeWinter wrote:...or even his party.
This does suggest that she was, if not complicit in the cover-up, unwilling that the police should take the blame for the disaster.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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ribbons69
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The Mish played Sheffield last night,Wayne literally walked on stage and before playing a note said "Justice for the 96" He returned to the theme a few times during the set,including a remark on how it was ironic that they happened to be in Sheffirled yesterday,of all days. They were bloody brilliant as well.
"I've seen Andrew Eldritch in an ice hockey shirt onstage, and I've given him the benefit of the doubt"
Tom G Warrior of Celtic Frost
we fall to rise
Tom G Warrior of Celtic Frost
we fall to rise
She had a loathing for football fans, the North of England and Liverpool as a city in particular. I think there were documents released (though it may have been just a recent rumour - can't quite remember) that admitted that she and her top people would've happily let Liverpool rot as an example to the rest of the country.markfiend wrote:I'd blame her for the great Fire of LondonDeWinter wrote:Bit of a stretch to blame her or the Conservatives though.markfiend wrote:
This does suggest that she was, if not complicit in the cover-up, unwilling that the police should take the blame for the disaster.
The Chancer Corporation
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markfiend
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Indeed. I seem to recall one of the Thatcher cabinet even saying so overtly. Off to google...abridged wrote:She had a loathing for football fans, the North of England and Liverpool as a city in particular. I think there were documents released (though it may have been just a recent rumour - can't quite remember) that admitted that she and her top people would've happily let Liverpool rot as an example to the rest of the country.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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markfiend
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Hmm. This looks like it might be what I was thinking of...
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
Oh come now. It's a bit unfair to blame her for the "managed decline" idea of the man who knifed her in the back eventually. Especially as she didn't act on it.
I think Edwina Currie had a similar idea, inbetween bouts of doubtless functional, missionary position sex with Major. I was there about two years back. Surprisingly pretty, and surprisingly empty.:/
I think Edwina Currie had a similar idea, inbetween bouts of doubtless functional, missionary position sex with Major. I was there about two years back. Surprisingly pretty, and surprisingly empty.:/
"Vengeance. Justice. Fire and blood.."
Fair point & it was 8 years before Hillsborough too.DeWinter wrote:Oh come now. It's a bit unfair to blame her for the "managed decline" idea of the man who knifed her in the back eventually. Especially as she didn't act on it.
But at the time of the event itself, she was in the driving seat.
Yep, there were ministers "running" things, but ultimate responsibility for their actions (or, in this case, inactions) should fall to her.
Do you think she had no idea what was going on?
She wasn't stupid. Not by a long chalk.
Evil yes. Stupid?? Deffo not.
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Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
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Many fans who had visited Wednesday as an away fan in that era will have had a similar tale to tell. The basic problem was that when through the turnstiles at the away end it appeared that the only way into the terracing was through the central tunnel under the ground which only gave access to the central pens. The two end pens (divided by lateral fences) could only be accessed by going round the side, which did not look like an obvious entrance. At most big games therefore the central pens, to which the tunnel was the only entrance/exit IIRC, would become over-full, dangerously so on some occasions (as in 81). The fatal difference in 89 was the opening of the gates causing the surge of fans who headed to the only obvious entrance to the terraces. So yes, an accident waiting to happen, but what happened after 3pm on the day and in the weeks afterwards was self-evidently criminal at the time, but even those of us who pointed the finger at South Yorks Police have been shocked by the scale of this week's revelations.
The ignorance that people have about this, even now, astounds me. It is such an emotive subject that unless people take the time to look into the subject they shouldn't really comment. I welcome debate as long as people make the effort.
Re Thatcher's part in all this.
Its undeniable that she had a loyalty to South Yorkshire police after the 'help' they gave her to break the miners strike of the mid '80s. She had to be aware that the police falsified reports then and hence shouldn't have been surprised when they did it again. When she was told their evidence was quite false she didn't publicise the fact. Nobody was sacked. The verdict of the inquest was not overturned. She left the families of the 96 to fight for justice. For 23 long years...
Re Thatcher's part in all this.
Its undeniable that she had a loyalty to South Yorkshire police after the 'help' they gave her to break the miners strike of the mid '80s. She had to be aware that the police falsified reports then and hence shouldn't have been surprised when they did it again. When she was told their evidence was quite false she didn't publicise the fact. Nobody was sacked. The verdict of the inquest was not overturned. She left the families of the 96 to fight for justice. For 23 long years...
& so should face the music.Mav787 wrote:The ignorance that people have about this, even now, astounds me. It is such an emotive subject that unless people take the time to look into the subject they shouldn't really comment. I welcome debate as long as people make the effort.
Re Thatcher's part in all this.
Its undeniable that she had a loyalty to South Yorkshire police after the 'help' they gave her to break the miners strike of the mid '80s. She had to be aware that the police falsified reports then and hence shouldn't have been surprised when they did it again. When she was told their evidence was quite false she didn't publicise the fact. Nobody was sacked. The verdict of the inquest was not overturned. She left the families of the 96 to fight for justice. For 23 long years...