Go on The Best Goth Band of All Time

[Black Planet]

You cannot start being nice now. I am about to die.

Yes I know. Imminent loss always softens my heart.

[mugabe]

1. On wearing silly clothes

It is ok to go through a pretentious phase at 16, 17 and even your first year of university. After that, poncing about in silly clothes with silly hair cuts is only justified if:

a. You are on your way to a fancy dress party; or

b. You are an internationally renowned rawk star and accept you have to do it for the sake of selling records.

Otherwise, I'm afraid, you look an idiot. The "Nephs" don't fall into (a) or (b) unless you argue that their life is one big fancy dress party which no one can be bothered to attend.

They said the same thing about The Beatles. I say the same thing about Old Bailey judges.

Germans, by the way, get an extra year for dressing up because they're late developers with no sense of humour.

What about the jews?

2. On the Nephs

They take themselves far too seriously. That is ok if you are someone who is gifted or has something genuinely interesting to say. Singing about moon childs and a load of tarot card pseudo mystic clap trap is not. Hence, whatever the dubious appeal of their tunes, you are morally bound as a normal member of society to laugh at them.

You could say the same thing about The Beatles.

3. On Robbie Williams

Not a big fan, but do like the Lighthouse Family, which probably makes your point better Mugabe. Being different can be a good thing, and it is right that our society tolerates people who like the "Nephs", no matter how misguided. But the mainstream is what makes society function, and those who knock it very seldom have anything better to offer. It is so easy to "try to be different" for the sake of it, and look a complete twunt. That is why your beloved AE distances himself from anything which could be called "G*th".

I assume goths feel the same group belonging as do hare krishnas, tories and nazis. Who, would you say, look the twuntest of these? It is also my firm belief that even if you look like a complete pillock, you could still be a valuable part of working society. The Nephs' tax money are as good as anyone else's, I suppose.

4. On freaks

That would be complementary to the sort of people I think you are alluding to. I think non-entity is a better word.

"Deviates", then? Or "dissenters", perhaps?

5. On your inevitable outrage

Take a good, long hard look at yourself in the mirror. And ask yourself. In twenty years time, do I want to be like this?

I am constantly changing, as are most people, apart from those who have assumed their fixed place in mainstream society and believe that their occupation is what defines them. I'll most certainly be another person in twenty years' time, but I wouldn't want to be that person now.

Your first step to salvation is to burn your copy of Elizium.

Art made by people not fitting society's norms should be burnt? I'm sure I've seen this somewhere before.

[Black Planet]

Did you have your coffee this morning Mugabe?

Repent or burn, eh? Not such a tolerant sig line.

Going off to burn, as I will never repent.

[Quiff Boy]

the funniest thing is that i think both parties have something valid to say. mugabe's defence of freedom of expression etc etc and clucking belle's attack on overt sillyness

i wouldnt take it too seriously - we all know cb's about to mutate into somone else probably equally as controversial in approx another 7 posts

[MAtT]

Bauhaus... in the 80's where I lived there were two goth all-time anthems, and they were The Sisters' "Temple of Love" and Bauhaus' "Bela Lugosi's Dead"...

[andymackem]

Any reason why the Neph defenders have North Eastern roots?

Angelchild in Durham, Black Horizons in Gateshead, I grew up in Sunderland and Durham and Stockholm is both north and east of here so counts to fit a tenuous argument.

Co-incidence, or conspiracy.

In answer to CB or the new mutation, Elizium is too good an album to be dismissed as pretentious or silly (IMHO). You can dislike it if you choose but to disregard its quality is a bit like arguing that Bach was a crap musician simply because you're not interested in Baroque fugues. It's a verdict that says more about you than the music.

By the same token, although I wouldn't choose to listen to the Beatles I would accept that they were a good band but not one which appeals to me.

[CorpPunk]

I am about to die.

But, but...NO!!! Not again!

I guess I'm going to have to dig out some of my old Smiths records to express my inner pain and angst that no one else could possibly understand, because I am an individual and as such am completely indefinable and unmarginable as far as concerns the 'mainstream.'

But seriously:

[James Blast]

Elizium is too good an album to be dismissed as pretentious or silly

Well said.

[mugabe]

I am an individual and as such am completely indefinable

My point would be that only you can define yourself, yes. What's yours? That people are of one of twelve different types corresponding to the Zodiac? 100 different? More?