Indeed, that's what I meant, the Sudeten crisis of '38.Bartek wrote:yeah, it's more like mix of Czechoslovakia'38 and Anschluss.iesus wrote:It seems, this is not a similar case at all. In many point views.markfiend wrote:Like you mentioned on page one Bart it's scary to see the parallels between this and the Sudetenland.
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Crimea
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markfiend
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The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
And what exactly similarities you see in that case?markfiend wrote:Indeed, that's what I meant, the Sudeten crisis of '38.Bartek wrote:yeah, it's more like mix of Czechoslovakia'38 and Anschluss.iesus wrote: It seems, this is not a similar case at all. In many point views.
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
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markfiend
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A dictatorial leader with expansionist hopes using speakers of his country's native language in another country as a pretext for occupation of (parts of) that other country.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
You mean Vlad Mustaine ?
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
and let not forget that Third Reich had same excuse - procetcion of their fellow citizens living abroad or people who claimed that they were ethnic Germans, or just national minority in foreign countries (Austria, Czechoslovakia, Poland). Russia, before it all started, to make this 'argument' even stronger, gave people living in Ukraine (including Crimea), claiming and proving that they had Russian ancestor(s), Russian passports.markfiend wrote:A dictatorial leader with expansionist hopes using speakers of his country's native language in another country as a pretext for occupation of (parts of) that other country.
and strategic importance of region. of course Crimea is much more valuable on this point than Czechoslovak border fortifications, but resemblance, at least to me, it's obvious.
Last edited by Bartek on 05 Mar 2014, 13:34, edited 1 time in total.
Strangely, i heard in the past that Mustaine won the elections in his country and it is president of his country and not dictator 
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
Thatcher too but none called her like that 
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
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markfiend
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I disagree. I would totally call Thatcher "dictatorial".
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
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markfiend
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Oh yeah, and I forgot... If we start sanctions against Europe's largest gas supplier, people will quickly complain when their means of cooking and heating disappear.markfiend wrote:Given that the UK's financial services industry relies on laundering money for Russian gangsters for a lot of its business, I wouldn't be overly hopeful of anything other than "tut-tut" noises from the UK government.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for the bastards.
The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.
—Bertrand Russell
—Bertrand Russell
ekhm, we didn't forget about that.
civilians without gas for heating is not a problem - this is not a (cold) winter, cooking - TV dinner and frozen food heated in microwave should/could sort that problem, in short time. i'd more worried about chemical companies and other companies using gas.
in the meantime Gerhard Schröder got another possition, this time in Rosnieft. Nord stream is build and works so now it's time for oil.
i read interview with Richard Pipes, he said, and that's obvious, that Europe nor US of A want war, but he pointed economical sanctions are way to punish Putler.
on other news, according to Ukrainan press not-a-russian-army-not-specnaz prepare to launch an assault on Ukrainan base in Crimea. and btw. i'm kinda wondering why any of politics and diplomats say nothing about that? or maybe it's a pink elephant?
And now for something completely different - joke
civilians without gas for heating is not a problem - this is not a (cold) winter, cooking - TV dinner and frozen food heated in microwave should/could sort that problem, in short time. i'd more worried about chemical companies and other companies using gas.
in the meantime Gerhard Schröder got another possition, this time in Rosnieft. Nord stream is build and works so now it's time for oil.
i read interview with Richard Pipes, he said, and that's obvious, that Europe nor US of A want war, but he pointed economical sanctions are way to punish Putler.
on other news, according to Ukrainan press not-a-russian-army-not-specnaz prepare to launch an assault on Ukrainan base in Crimea. and btw. i'm kinda wondering why any of politics and diplomats say nothing about that? or maybe it's a pink elephant?
And now for something completely different - joke
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Being645
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OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ...Bartek wrote:let's-see-how-far-we-can-go policy ?
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sultan2075
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Really? This is utterly unsurprising.Being645 wrote:OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ...Bartek wrote:let's-see-how-far-we-can-go policy ?
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
Ik stel voor om het voorbeeld van de Oekraïense Rechtse volgen en het afschaffen van alle talen van de EU behalve Nederlands 
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
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Being645
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- Location: reconstruction status: whatever the f**k
No, I don't think so. It is a result of developments over the last few years, and of course, of recent.sultan2075 wrote:Really? This is utterly unsurprising.Being645 wrote:OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ...Bartek wrote:let's-see-how-far-we-can-go policy ?
IMHO, Putin has a) given up his hope for recognition and is now just taking the "chance" to be bad and give
another sad and childish example for why humankind have never got further than the kindergarten we're still in ... a shame ...
...We've got a proverb in Germany, perhaps it does exist in other countries as well: Once your reputation is in tatters, the opinion of others hardly matters...
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sultan2075
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Hasn't Putin been talking about rebuilding the old Soviet empire for a number of years now? To who (other than Obama) is this a surprise? He's done exactly what my wife (born in the old USSR) has been predicting for years. He's done exactly what he said he would do. Why is anyone surprised by this? He did not exactly hide his intentions (nor are they being hidden toward Estonia).Being645 wrote:No, I don't think so. It is a result of developments over the last few years, and of course, of recent.sultan2075 wrote:Really? This is utterly unsurprising.Being645 wrote: OK. I have to admit that I had not imagined things to be like this, but obviously, they are ...
IMHO, Putin has a) given up his hope for recognition and is now just taking the "chance" to be bad and give
another sad and childish example for why humankind have never got further than the kindergarten we're still in ... a shame ...
We've got a proverb in Germany, perhaps it does exist in other countries as well: Once your reputation is in tatters, the opinion of others hardly matters...
--
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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nowayjose
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I still think that Putin is one of the more rational politicians today and the reappropriation of Crimea (which is mostly Russian) appears to work out as he planned with only a minimum of bloodshed. Unlike, for example, some other politicians who listen to the voice of God and then invade Iraq. However, as Putin is now with his back against the wall, who knows how he will react. IMHO we're wrong in putting too much pressure on the man. I don't think he wants to build a new Soviet union, he should know well enough that he hasn't got the money for that.sultan2075 wrote: Hasn't Putin been talking about rebuilding the old Soviet empire for a number of years now? To who (other than Obama) is this a surprise?
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sultan2075
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A few points seem relevant:nowayjose wrote:I still think that Putin is one of the more rational politicians today and the reappropriation of Crimea (which is mostly Russian) appears to work out as he planned with only a minimum of bloodshed. Unlike, for example, some other politicians who listen to the voice of God and then invade Iraq. However, as Putin is now with his back against the wall, who knows how he will react. IMHO we're wrong in putting too much pressure on the man. I don't think he wants to build a new Soviet union, he should know well enough that he hasn't got the money for that.sultan2075 wrote: Hasn't Putin been talking about rebuilding the old Soviet empire for a number of years now? To who (other than Obama) is this a surprise?
1. Putin is perfectly rational. He pursues what he thinks is the national interest with all the cold-blooded intent of a reptile. I've often wished my own country had such a president.
2. Bush and Iraq have nothing to do with this.
3. Putin, by his own account, seems to be a revanchist interested in rebuilding the old empire. That does not mean he is a communist. I don't think "he wants to build a new Soviet union." I think he wants to restore Russian imperial greatness. These are not the same thing. First Person: An Astonishingly Frank Self-Portrait by Russia's President by Putin, Gevorkyan, Timakova, and Kolesnikov might be worth consulting.
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
Sultan is right here. obviously everyone could easily predicted another steps. as everyone could predicted that condemnations by other EU countries and US of A will be just a words and that mutuall business shall be as usual - like nothing happened.
what Putin is doing here is convincing his minions, sorry, countyrmen, that Russia is a world leader, at last, after years of humiliation everyone has to and do listen to Russia, everyone is waiting what their leader will say, how everyone in the World will respond to his words.
Putler will never give back this piece of land, that's Russian policy, that's what they're doing since 18th century- they sticking flag in ground and that land is their. and btw, I wondering if Russia like step back, give back Georgia that 11 km that they take them right before Sochi olimpic games begin.
I do like when our judgments being hazed by resentments; yes US of A did horrible and shamefull things, but what Putler's doing is, on ethical and moral ground, far worst, fact that there's almost none casualties change nothing, imo.
What i'm sure now is that Putin will resovle Moldova problem by officialy taking Transnistria.
what Putin is doing here is convincing his minions, sorry, countyrmen, that Russia is a world leader, at last, after years of humiliation everyone has to and do listen to Russia, everyone is waiting what their leader will say, how everyone in the World will respond to his words.
Putler will never give back this piece of land, that's Russian policy, that's what they're doing since 18th century- they sticking flag in ground and that land is their. and btw, I wondering if Russia like step back, give back Georgia that 11 km that they take them right before Sochi olimpic games begin.
I do like when our judgments being hazed by resentments; yes US of A did horrible and shamefull things, but what Putler's doing is, on ethical and moral ground, far worst, fact that there's almost none casualties change nothing, imo.
What i'm sure now is that Putin will resovle Moldova problem by officialy taking Transnistria.
Sultan seems to be correct in the 3 points mentioned. Although in the 3rd there are names and things i cannot tell about cause i don't know parts of them. But the main theme of him that he is for sure not a commu is true.
Mustaine is doing what others did in Cyprus, Yugoslavia and other parts of this planet the years past. Ukraine will no longer exists in a few years for one reason only and that is that it worth more the corpse than to be as it is today and we will see more territories leave than Crimea.
I would easily bet that if there was vote for independence in other states like Crimea next weeks the results will be to remain half the states of Ukraine in Ukraine.
And a normal simple person would not choose to stay in the part that will be in the hands of Nazi party that is taking control without elections in Kiev today.
The fact that none mentions that a Nazi party is taking control without elections in a European country for first time after ww2 is strange enough.
Mustaine is doing what others did in Cyprus, Yugoslavia and other parts of this planet the years past. Ukraine will no longer exists in a few years for one reason only and that is that it worth more the corpse than to be as it is today and we will see more territories leave than Crimea.
I would easily bet that if there was vote for independence in other states like Crimea next weeks the results will be to remain half the states of Ukraine in Ukraine.
And a normal simple person would not choose to stay in the part that will be in the hands of Nazi party that is taking control without elections in Kiev today.
The fact that none mentions that a Nazi party is taking control without elections in a European country for first time after ww2 is strange enough.
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
there's no Nazi party in Ukraine that "taking control without elections". there's is extreme-far-right party that is a PART - as one of parliment party, with 37/450 seats in Ukrainian parliament - of interim government.
As, btw, Golden Dawn is a part of Greece parliament, whether you like it or not.
but i predict that this party may grow stronger and stronger if EU/NATO will do nothing, and it will be a 'natural' consequence of standing still, using empty words and promises, and in the meantime, doing normal, regular business with Russia. but in the same time i hope that Ukrainians are wise enough to not let this happen.
As, btw, Golden Dawn is a part of Greece parliament, whether you like it or not.
but i predict that this party may grow stronger and stronger if EU/NATO will do nothing, and it will be a 'natural' consequence of standing still, using empty words and promises, and in the meantime, doing normal, regular business with Russia. but in the same time i hope that Ukrainians are wise enough to not let this happen.
Exactly because i know the connections of G.D.'s with that Nazi - Far right party that makes party in there. I don't like to see both grow up and none mention this.
just have a look at this to have an idea
http://www.grreporter.info/en/blood_rel ... azis/10791
and there are many more that is not known widely.
Ukrainian far right bloodbrothers of G.D.'s are Nazi either we like it or not.
just have a look at this to have an idea
http://www.grreporter.info/en/blood_rel ... azis/10791
and there are many more that is not known widely.
Ukrainian far right bloodbrothers of G.D.'s are Nazi either we like it or not.
'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."