It turns out that the version of BE on this album is longer - not by much, but it suggests that the version on SGWBM was faded early to help make the tracks fit onto the cd.
This makes me wonder about what might actually be on the 7" and the SGWBM vinyl - can anyone help to confirm?
They Shall Not Pass - Longer version of Body Electric
-
AdrenaChris
- Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 186
- Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 21:59
- Location: Ing-er-land
I had no idea about this...I'm going to take a guess that it is a "complete ending" like the 1985 version.
-
Aazhyd
- Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 229
- Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 07:48
- Location: The low damp ground
- Contact:
I have that version and the song indeed ends, although the last few seconds still fade somewhat. No voice / vocals in that last 9 seconds. So no howl as in the 1984 version.
You don't miss a lot.
You don't miss a lot.
Only the Americans could have built a place like this in the middle of a jungle.
-
Gaijin
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 845
- Joined: 27 Jan 2015, 23:14
- Location: Zululand
Absolutely - On the TSNP version the vocals end and the music continues for a few more seconds before it is faded out.Aazhyd wrote:I have that version and the song indeed ends, although the last few seconds still fade somewhat. No voice / vocals in that last 9 seconds. So no howl as in the 1984 version.
You don't miss a lot.
The 'instrumental' version from Kenny Giles Walks on Water' has a cold ending though, and I'm just wondering if a 1982 vocal version with cold ending exists.
-
Aazhyd
- Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 229
- Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 07:48
- Location: The low damp ground
- Contact:
On the TSNP version, the drum computer is already stopped before the last second. I think it IS a cold end version, just the last second is faded. But you hear the entire song.
Suppose you could unfade the final bit and come up with a complete version.
Suppose you could unfade the final bit and come up with a complete version.
Only the Americans could have built a place like this in the middle of a jungle.
-
Gaijin
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 845
- Joined: 27 Jan 2015, 23:14
- Location: Zululand
Interesting.
? Aren't the guitars and bass still in full swing during the fade-out?
Perhaps the version I have been passed is actually from the 7" then... There is a longer than normal beginning and end silence for something that's off an album.
? Aren't the guitars and bass still in full swing during the fade-out?
Perhaps the version I have been passed is actually from the 7" then... There is a longer than normal beginning and end silence for something that's off an album.
"The lambs are dead and the cows explode"
Comparing with the old Enter the Sisters bootleg* (mine is the Metal Speed release, red cover) it's faded like the SGWBM version. Since SGWBM didn't actually exist at the time this bootleg was released, the only sources for Enter the Sisters must have been the 7" or TSNP. (*: The wiki is in error here; at least for the Metal Speed release the version of Body Electric is not that from the Body & Soul 12".)
Taking it all together then we can conclude that the SGWBM and 7" versions are the same, with TSNP being the different one.
Taking it all together then we can conclude that the SGWBM and 7" versions are the same, with TSNP being the different one.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
-
Being645
- Wiki Wizard
- Posts: 15272
- Joined: 09 Apr 2009, 12:54
- Location: reconstruction status: whatever the f**k
True, looking at discogs, the track time is shorter also with the Black Swan Records release. Thank you for the hint!mh wrote: (*: The wiki is in error here; at least for the Metal Speed release the version of Body Electric is not that from the Body & Soul 12".)
Btw, anybody has the correct track times for the Body Electric 7"
They Shall Not Pass - 4:27
Enter The Sisters (both editions) - 4:20
Some Girls Wander By Mistake - 4:18
Kenny Giles Walks On Water - CNT Demo - 4:24
Kenny Giles Walks On Water - Instrumental - 4:32
Body And Soul 12" - 4:38
-
robertzombie
- Overbomber
- Posts: 4382
- Joined: 05 Sep 2005, 12:49
- Location: London
Thanks for alerting us to this. Just bought the 'Pass CD 
It will also be interesting to compare the mastering differences for Adrenochrome between this and SGWBM.
It will also be interesting to compare the mastering differences for Adrenochrome between this and SGWBM.
Just for the benefit of everyone, I've just bought digital copies of the Sisters tracks from TSNP and here's a 25-second snippet of the part in question: https://www.sendspace.com/file/yo7q8t
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
-
Gaijin
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 845
- Joined: 27 Jan 2015, 23:14
- Location: Zululand
Thanks for the clip @mh. I didn't think to check for a cd/digital version of the album, just found this on Soulseek, ripped from the record. Were the tracks available in any lossless formats?
The clip sounds 'thinner', but I'm just playing it on earphones. Once amplified, and after using the envelope tool, it's apparent that the bass is still playing - which suggests that the master reel version would end similarly to the instrumental version from the same reel.
@robertzombie - keep us informed please.
The clip sounds 'thinner', but I'm just playing it on earphones. Once amplified, and after using the envelope tool, it's apparent that the bass is still playing - which suggests that the master reel version would end similarly to the instrumental version from the same reel.
@robertzombie - keep us informed please.
"The lambs are dead and the cows explode"
No lossless version.
I don't at the moment have access to my copy of Enter the Sisters for a final comparison (just in case what I said above was nonsense) and I'm hesitant to check it anyway, since the vinyl is totally knackered and I don't want to risk damaging my stylus.
What I am certain of is that it does contain the original version, which is faded, and my recollection is that it's the same fade as on SGWBM, so the only part that's in doubt is the fade. I can give you maybe 75% certainty it's the early fade like on SGWBM.
I don't at the moment have access to my copy of Enter the Sisters for a final comparison (just in case what I said above was nonsense) and I'm hesitant to check it anyway, since the vinyl is totally knackered and I don't want to risk damaging my stylus.
What I am certain of is that it does contain the original version, which is faded, and my recollection is that it's the same fade as on SGWBM, so the only part that's in doubt is the fade. I can give you maybe 75% certainty it's the early fade like on SGWBM.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
-
Aazhyd
- Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 229
- Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 07:48
- Location: The low damp ground
- Contact:
Same as my version.mh wrote:Just for the benefit of everyone, I've just bought digital copies of the Sisters tracks from TSNP and here's a 25-second snippet of the part in question: https://www.sendspace.com/file/yo7q8t
Only the Americans could have built a place like this in the middle of a jungle.
-
Gaijin
- Utterly Bastard Groovy Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 845
- Joined: 27 Jan 2015, 23:14
- Location: Zululand
I've bashed an Assembly Edit together using different sources (it's a bit rough, like the source material). It illustrates the point I'm trying to make about a cold ending on the master reel.
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/IQ1Nq5C5/file.html
http://www20.zippyshare.com/v/IQ1Nq5C5/file.html
"The lambs are dead and the cows explode"
-
robertzombie
- Overbomber
- Posts: 4382
- Joined: 05 Sep 2005, 12:49
- Location: London
Body Electric / Adrenochrome
They Shall Not Pass VS Some Girls Wander By Mistake
The CNT CD arrived and I immediately listened to Body Electric to hear the full length outro. I don't have the original 7" so I can't confirm whether the full outro is featured there. It's certainly sloppy and I can understand why it was decided that it should be faded early on SGWBM, but it was interesting to hear nonetheless. I ripped the tracks losslessly into iTunes and cued up a back-to-back playlist in order to compare the masterings on the CNT CD with their SGWBM counterparts. The results were intriguing!
With each track I first played the SGWBM mastering, then the CNT.
Adrenochrome
SGWBM has an EQ profile that, once you notice it, is hard to ignore. I have conducted comparisons before between my needledrops and the SGWBM CD so I know from experience that the CD is goosed in the low and high ends. It has a slight smiley-face EQ which emphasises the kick drum and bass guitar interaction, and gives the lead guitar more bite. It's quite exciting at first, but can become fatiguing and reveals itself to be a poor decision when compared back-to-back with pristine needledrops. The situation here is no different, the CNT presentation of Adrenochrome is far more laid back and mellow than what is heard on SGWBM. The instruments have much more breathing space and the lead guitar sounds like an entirely different instrument. The CNT mastering sounds relatively 'flat' in comparison to SGWBM. Comparing the two masterings back-to-back, the CNT appears lacklustre at first but easily reveals itself to be superior due to the new-found space and instrumental clarity. Most surprising of all, is that a comparison of this nature reveals the iteration of Adrenochrome on SGWBM to be an obvious needledrop - and a rather bad one at that. The engineer has done a fairly decent job of removing clicks, but they can still be heard in the more complex guitar parts where it is traditionally hard to remove clicks. The vocal sibilance and high-end guitar harshness on SGWBM is non-existent on the CNT CD, further adding evidence to my assertion that Adrenochrome on SGWBM is sourced from a fairly beat-up 7" and the CNT version is quite clearly not.
Adrenochrome frequency analysis: CNT blue vs SGWBM red
Body Electric
The EQ differences here aren't quite as wide as with Adrenochrome. Yes, SGWBM still has a bigger low end (due to the revisionist EQ'ing) but the CNT mastering doesn't sound quite as lacklustre as previously mentioned with Adrenochrome. Once again, however, the CNT version has more breathing space around the instruments and greater clarity. Again, it's clear that Body Electric on SGWBM is sourced from vinyl and the CNT is either sourced from the master-tape or a far superior 7". It's really easy to hear the tell-tale signs of a poorly done needledrop because of all the 'sss' and 'tt' delay on the lead vocal. On SGWBM, the delayed sibilants break-up and distort, whilst on the CNT they remain fixed and identical. The lead guitar is heavily distorted on SGWBM. Compare it back-to-back with the CNT and you soon realise that that distortion is not part of the song but is a sign of inner-groove distortion, which also manifests itself on the vocal during the final shouted chorus. All that distortion is absent on the CNT CD. I am going to put forward the theory that the reason for the early fade on SGWBM is not due to the sloppy ending, but rather is due to the end of the 7" potentially being too damaged to use. I will also posit the same theory for the truncated Kiss reprise.
Body Electric frequency analysis: CNT blue vs SGWBM red
You can see that, on both frequency graphs, the SGWBM masterings (red) are boosted at ~100 Hz and ~10 kHz. This proves the presence of 'smiley-face' EQ. What's more worrying is the identical red peak and trough between 2 Hz and 30 Hz that is present on both tracks. I've looked at frequency profiles of turntables when playing empty grooves and I've seen similar peaks and troughs before. My own turntable has an unmistakable frequency profile in the subsonic regions that can be seen across my needledrops - every turntable does. I think what we're seeing here in the red between 2-30 Hz is the subsonic frequency profile of the turntable used to make the needledrops for SGWBM. I randomly checked the frequency profile of Alice from the same CD and it's present there too. I've not checked if it's present on the entire CD, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Anyway, we're stretching into 'potentials' and 'theories' here. All I can say, factually, is that there is a clear mechanical profile, shared by both Body Electric and Adrenochrome on SGWBM, that is unusual and clearly not present on the CNT CD.
To conclude: I believe that SGWBM uses needledrops for at least the Body Electric single tracks. I also believe that the CNT compilation CD is probably sourced from master tapes and the Sisters' tracks sound a lot better on the CNT CD
They Shall Not Pass VS Some Girls Wander By Mistake
The CNT CD arrived and I immediately listened to Body Electric to hear the full length outro. I don't have the original 7" so I can't confirm whether the full outro is featured there. It's certainly sloppy and I can understand why it was decided that it should be faded early on SGWBM, but it was interesting to hear nonetheless. I ripped the tracks losslessly into iTunes and cued up a back-to-back playlist in order to compare the masterings on the CNT CD with their SGWBM counterparts. The results were intriguing!
With each track I first played the SGWBM mastering, then the CNT.
Adrenochrome
SGWBM has an EQ profile that, once you notice it, is hard to ignore. I have conducted comparisons before between my needledrops and the SGWBM CD so I know from experience that the CD is goosed in the low and high ends. It has a slight smiley-face EQ which emphasises the kick drum and bass guitar interaction, and gives the lead guitar more bite. It's quite exciting at first, but can become fatiguing and reveals itself to be a poor decision when compared back-to-back with pristine needledrops. The situation here is no different, the CNT presentation of Adrenochrome is far more laid back and mellow than what is heard on SGWBM. The instruments have much more breathing space and the lead guitar sounds like an entirely different instrument. The CNT mastering sounds relatively 'flat' in comparison to SGWBM. Comparing the two masterings back-to-back, the CNT appears lacklustre at first but easily reveals itself to be superior due to the new-found space and instrumental clarity. Most surprising of all, is that a comparison of this nature reveals the iteration of Adrenochrome on SGWBM to be an obvious needledrop - and a rather bad one at that. The engineer has done a fairly decent job of removing clicks, but they can still be heard in the more complex guitar parts where it is traditionally hard to remove clicks. The vocal sibilance and high-end guitar harshness on SGWBM is non-existent on the CNT CD, further adding evidence to my assertion that Adrenochrome on SGWBM is sourced from a fairly beat-up 7" and the CNT version is quite clearly not.
Adrenochrome frequency analysis: CNT blue vs SGWBM red
Body Electric
The EQ differences here aren't quite as wide as with Adrenochrome. Yes, SGWBM still has a bigger low end (due to the revisionist EQ'ing) but the CNT mastering doesn't sound quite as lacklustre as previously mentioned with Adrenochrome. Once again, however, the CNT version has more breathing space around the instruments and greater clarity. Again, it's clear that Body Electric on SGWBM is sourced from vinyl and the CNT is either sourced from the master-tape or a far superior 7". It's really easy to hear the tell-tale signs of a poorly done needledrop because of all the 'sss' and 'tt' delay on the lead vocal. On SGWBM, the delayed sibilants break-up and distort, whilst on the CNT they remain fixed and identical. The lead guitar is heavily distorted on SGWBM. Compare it back-to-back with the CNT and you soon realise that that distortion is not part of the song but is a sign of inner-groove distortion, which also manifests itself on the vocal during the final shouted chorus. All that distortion is absent on the CNT CD. I am going to put forward the theory that the reason for the early fade on SGWBM is not due to the sloppy ending, but rather is due to the end of the 7" potentially being too damaged to use. I will also posit the same theory for the truncated Kiss reprise.
Body Electric frequency analysis: CNT blue vs SGWBM red
You can see that, on both frequency graphs, the SGWBM masterings (red) are boosted at ~100 Hz and ~10 kHz. This proves the presence of 'smiley-face' EQ. What's more worrying is the identical red peak and trough between 2 Hz and 30 Hz that is present on both tracks. I've looked at frequency profiles of turntables when playing empty grooves and I've seen similar peaks and troughs before. My own turntable has an unmistakable frequency profile in the subsonic regions that can be seen across my needledrops - every turntable does. I think what we're seeing here in the red between 2-30 Hz is the subsonic frequency profile of the turntable used to make the needledrops for SGWBM. I randomly checked the frequency profile of Alice from the same CD and it's present there too. I've not checked if it's present on the entire CD, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. Anyway, we're stretching into 'potentials' and 'theories' here. All I can say, factually, is that there is a clear mechanical profile, shared by both Body Electric and Adrenochrome on SGWBM, that is unusual and clearly not present on the CNT CD.
To conclude: I believe that SGWBM uses needledrops for at least the Body Electric single tracks. I also believe that the CNT compilation CD is probably sourced from master tapes and the Sisters' tracks sound a lot better on the CNT CD
-
AdrenaChris
- Amphetamine Filth
- Posts: 186
- Joined: 17 Apr 2009, 21:59
- Location: Ing-er-land
Good work! very interesting...rather sloppy work by The Girls on the SGWBM front for an official release, eh?
-
eastmidswhizzkid
- Faster Than The Light Of Speed
- Posts: 9876
- Joined: 24 Mar 2005, 00:01
- Location: WhizzWorld
- Contact:
you're kidding right? we can't manage one 1982 body electric vinyl 7" between us? if she wasn't dead of a heroin overdose i would hunt down the bitch who sold "mine"* for pence.... 
*"mine" as in her ex-bf had already promised it to me when she snaffled all his vinyl. cunt.
*"mine" as in her ex-bf had already promised it to me when she snaffled all his vinyl. cunt.
Well I was handsome and I was strong
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
-
Nikolas Vitus Lagartija
- Overbomber
- Posts: 2485
- Joined: 04 Aug 2011, 23:35
- Location: Scotland
- Contact:
I have it but no longer have a turntable 
...
