Some remastered stuff by a dedicated audiophile...

THE place for your Sisters-related comments, questions and snippets of Sisters information. For those who do not know, The Sisters of Mercy are a rock'n'roll band. And a pop band. And an industrial groove machine. Or so they say. They make records. Lots of records, apparently. But not in your galaxy. They play concerts. Lots of concerts, actually. But you still cannot see them. So what's it all about, Alfie? This is one of the few tightly-moderated forums on Heartland, so please keep on-topic. All off-topic posts will either be moved or deleted. Chairman Bux is the editor and the editor's decision is final. Danke.
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sathvyre
Road Kill
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Joined: 23 Mar 2015, 18:56

hello everybody,

after i read many posts in the last days, i decided to register here to share some information and, maybe later some sound samples of dedicated audiophile homework.
i am located in germany, so please understand that i am not a native english speaker.
i am an audiophile music producer with hundreds of international refererences, mostly in extreme metal...but besides metal, i am a big fan of bands like the sisters of mercy, fields of the nephilim, depeche mode, laibach, kraftwerk, pink floyd etc...and since nearly 25 years, i am into collecting some rare stuff.
i am also well-known in some fan circles for my high-quality vinyl and cassette transfers (as i also do professional audio restoration / mastering / remastering for some record companies).
last days i spend some hours to listen to the entire the sisters of mercy back catalogue on original vinyl and later on cd sources and i was disappointed again about the flat and lifeless sound on digital medium...so i decided to remaster some stuff to get it sound right.
most complex was the "some girls wander by mistake" compilation...but now i really enjoy what i did. at first i made a needledrop of the original "alice" 12" and did a frequency comparison between the transfer and the cd version. i fixed the overall frequency range and it sounds more deep and punchy.
next was to remove the "body electric" 7" tracks from the compilation to use the versions of the 1988 cd "they shall not pass" (as they must be taken from a tape source, not vinyl single). i matched the equlization of my reEQed tracks to the two new additions and it sounded really nice.
i also fixed the "kiss the carpet reprise" in overall volume and removed the fadeout.
i filtered some single clicks here and there (which are audible with headphones) and it was done in a few hours.
i also re-did the "first and last and always" album as the 2006 remaster sounds way too thin and mid-boosted. i did a needledrop from my original german LP and matched the equalization track-by-track to the 2006 remaster....now it sounds right on cd for the very first time. i also did that with the additional tracks and really enjoy my cd-r now.
last was my "body and soul - expanded edition" compilation. it includes the 12" + the three bbc sessions (peel 1982 + 1984 / jensen 1983) and both tracks from the grey old whistle test recording. i did a needledrop of my body and soul 12", but unfortunately a distortion is audible on the guitar on "afterhours"...but it's not as extreme...
question about the 3 bbc sessions: i used the digital files from the re-broadcast (they sound really nice) and restored the "alice" intro and the outro of "floorshow" (using the "they are not departed or gone" bootleg lp). as we all know, the re-broadcast was a lossy-compressed one, so the flacs i used are in fact converted lossy-to-lossless files. is there any true lossless version available of all the tracks ???
allright - i am sure i will ask some more questions in the near future - but first: thank you all for such a great forum !!!
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dtsom
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It sounds quite interesting! Welcome aboard!
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Pista
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Hello & welcome. What an awesome first post

sathvyre wrote: the re-broadcast was a lossy-compressed one, so the flacs i used are in fact converted lossy-to-lossless files. is there any true lossless version available of all the tracks ???
The only way would be to raid the BBC archive for the original tapes. I don't think they ever made it to their transcription series.
Other option is to get your mits on master recordings from the broadcasts. Only problem there is the Jensen ones.
Jensen's shows were typically only medium wave broadcasts, as Radio 1 didn't get its own FM frequency until the late 80's. It usually hopped on Radio 2's wavelength late at night (John Peel) & at the weekends until then.
You could try contacting the BBC archive people & take a chance, but I have tried that with an old The Cure session & they didn't have very much information really.
Cheers.
Steve
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sathvyre
Road Kill
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Joined: 23 Mar 2015, 18:56

thank you very much for information !!!
about the jensen sessions: i have 'em in great quality (same sound as the two peel sessions), but also flacs from lossy files...
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mh
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Hello and welcome. :D

Our very own robertzombie will probably drop by soon enough; he's currently engaged in a similar project.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
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Pista
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sathvyre wrote:thank you very much for information !!!
about the jensen sessions: i have 'em in great quality (same sound as the two peel sessions), but also flacs from lossy files...
Yep. The will be. They were rebroadcast on 6music which is purely digital.
The original broadcasts would have been analogue & mono (& prolly full of bleed over & noise from a load of other stations) :|
Cheers.
Steve
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sathvyre
Road Kill
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first time i heard most of the bbc stuff on the bootleg lp "they are not departed or gone" (it is still in my collection). must be more than 20 years ago...
the quality of that lp is okay i think. sure, it runs a bit too fast, but the overall sound is more than good for a bootleg source...so i could fix the "floorshow" outro of the re-broadcast (overlapped by "alice"), using the part from the boot lp. is there a better source for "floorshow" available ? maybe a true digital one (not a needledrop) ?= so i could re-do my endfade again...but the version i created sounds very nice so far...
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robertzombie
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Sounds like an interesting project, I would like to hear your SGWBM material. I find that the EQ of the original singles trumps that of SGWBM and doesn't require any fixing.
I have done a private remaster of the debut LP, using the MFSL remaster's EQ and applying it to my high resolution needledrop of the original German vinyl. I would be interested to compare notes and findings :)
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sathvyre
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well, i compared the german vinyl with the original 1992 cd version of "some girls..."...they sound almost identical (but the cd version sounds a bit more thin and tinny). as some of the tracks on the compilation were sourced from vinyl (alice 12" / anaconda 7" / body electric 7"), i didn't want to work with needledrops of material which was already needledropped before.
the vinyl transfers on the compilation sound very nice (especially the alice 12" and the anaconda 7") and more clean as my near mint looking copies, so i only had to adjust the EQ to get it sound right.
in the next days i will receive some upgraded vinyl 12" and 7" records (some records on my collection were played to death in the old times) and i will re-check the EQ again. i am sure the original records sound fantastic. unfortunately, there is simply no way to buy a "the damage done" original 7" for a low price...
about the debut album mfsl-lp: doesn't it include the wrong mixes (the 1988 japan mixes) ???
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robertzombie
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I found some songs on the CD to be far too bass-heavy compared to the original singles, especially Alice and Anaconda, with the mids being masked by smiley faced eq. On many of the SGWBM tracks you can hear vinyl artefacts such as clicks and IGD. A good needledrop of pristine originals easily trump the transfers made for SGWBM.

You can sample some of my work here: The Needle And The Damage Done: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL ... 23X0Hlfii7

Yes, MFSL used the Japanese mixes, but some of them are identical to the original mixes. I simply looked at one of the identical tracks and compared the EQ difference. It results in a low end boost that actually mimics the EQ profile of the chrome cassette release. Food for thought.
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sathvyre
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thank you for the link, i will check some of your rips.
alice is playing now, sounds nice.
sure, it always depends on the cartridge and the whole setup how a record will sound. i prefer an ortofon omp30 or 40 on a technics sl-q300. for amplification i use a technics su-v570 pxs cap. the phono-preamp sounds really nice.
i am sure i will also do some needledrops when my upgraded 12" records have arrived.
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sathvyre
Road Kill
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by the way: the "body and soul" 12" (uk pressing) sounds way too hot, especially on the guitars in "afterhours". i never checked a german pressing (as i also own the uk only). what do you think ? is there any upgrade possible ? would also be very interesting if the volume drop in "body electric" didn't exist on the german pressing...maybe i will buy one to check...
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robertzombie
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Quite right, the UK 12" was definitely mastered too hot, hence the volume drop in Body Electric and distortion on Afterhours.
I'd never thought to check the German pressing but it looks like it uses different stampers so it's entirely possible that it's a superior mastering. It depends whether Alsdorf were sent copies of the master tapes, or just the EQ'd cutting masters from Damont. I would like to find out!
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mh
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I've 2 copies of Body & Soul, blue and white, the latter unfortunately warped beyond playability, but I don't believe I've ever checked whether the blue is German or UK. Hopefully I'll get the chance this weekend and might try a transfer myself.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
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Dan
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Can someone explain the need to EQ or "re-EQ" a needledrop? What's wrong with hearing it as it was intended, why not leave it as it is?
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robertzombie
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Dan wrote:Can someone explain the need to EQ or "re-EQ" a needledrop? What's wrong with hearing it as it was intended, why not leave it as it is?
I mostly agree with you. Part of the point of needledropping is to get closer to the original intention of the time, that's what I'm doing with my preservation and Youtube project. Regarding F&L&A, I think it could do with a little massaging, as MFSL proved, and it was interesting to hear their EQ applied to the original LP.
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sathvyre
Road Kill
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robertzombie wrote:Quite right, the UK 12" was definitely mastered too hot, hence the volume drop in Body Electric and distortion on Afterhours.
I'd never thought to check the German pressing but it looks like it uses different stampers so it's entirely possible that it's a superior mastering. It depends whether Alsdorf were sent copies of the master tapes, or just the EQ'd cutting masters from Damont. I would like to find out!
I will get a decent vinyl rip from another audiophile sicko. he owns the german pressing and will transfer the vinyl with the same gear (technics sl-q300 with ortofon omp40 cartridge). i will let you know how the german record sounds, compared to the uk pressing. i suspect it will be flawless (as nearly all german pressings i know).
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sathvyre
Road Kill
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Dan wrote:Can someone explain the need to EQ or "re-EQ" a needledrop? What's wrong with hearing it as it was intended, why not leave it as it is?
it always depends on your gear how a needledrop sounds. if you use different cartridges, preamps and soundcards, they will sound very different.
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robertzombie
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sathvyre wrote:
robertzombie wrote:Quite right, the UK 12" was definitely mastered too hot, hence the volume drop in Body Electric and distortion on Afterhours.
I'd never thought to check the German pressing but it looks like it uses different stampers so it's entirely possible that it's a superior mastering. It depends whether Alsdorf were sent copies of the master tapes, or just the EQ'd cutting masters from Damont. I would like to find out!
I will get a decent vinyl rip from another audiophile sicko. he owns the german pressing and will transfer the vinyl with the same gear (technics sl-q300 with ortofon omp40 cartridge). i will let you know how the german record sounds, compared to the uk pressing. i suspect it will be flawless (as nearly all german pressings i know).
Looking forward to your findings :)
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Being645
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sathvyre wrote:
Dan wrote:Can someone explain the need to EQ or "re-EQ" a needledrop? What's wrong with hearing it as it was intended, why not leave it as it is?
it always depends on your gear how a needledrop sounds. if you use different cartridges, preamps and soundcards, they will sound very different.
As robertzombie has perfectly made visible in this post
https://www.myheartland.co.uk/viewtopic ... 243#627243

Wonderful to be able to see what one's ears can hear (or maybe not after a decade long series of Louder Than Everything Else :lol: )

Anyway, welcome sathvyre ... I surely can't contribute much to this sort of research, but I definitely love to follow it and see the results ... ;D :notworthy: ...
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ruffers
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Being645 wrote:
Anyway, welcome sathvyre ... I surely can't contribute much to this sort of research, but I definitely love to follow it and see the results ... ;D :notworthy: ...
What Being645 said.

I just love the techie talk!
Chucking another log on
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eastmidswhizzkid
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sathvyre wrote: i also fixed the "kiss the carpet reprise" in overall volume and removed the fadeout.
amen. :von:
Well I was handsome and I was strong
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
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