Wayne's Salad Daze

[eastmidswhizzkid]

I only got round to ordering my copy last night, so I vote against spoilers

i remember when spoilers were what cunts put on their fiat unos to make other wankers think it was a bottle of lambrini or something...i've done no research.

[Pista]

I only got round to ordering my copy last night, so I vote against spoilers

i remember when spoilers were what cunts put on their fiat unos to make other wankers think it was a bottle of lambrini or something...i've done no research.

[eastmidswhizzkid]

i really enjoyed wayne's book. for starters its by far the least up-its-own-arse account of the period that i have read thus far, written as it is by someone who, like those of us old enough to have been around then, was/is a part of the scene.....unlike some mainstream fucktard hack who blatantly thought we Goths were fucking hilarious or some cretinous bystander whose sister had a siouxsie poster thus qualifying him for being the fucking 'i was there' oracle for the surely barely-interested historians/fans of musical subcultures (yes YOU mickey mouse mercer and dave something or other-whoever-the-fuck: NOBODY who listens to Our Music and loves it calls it 'GOTHIC fucking ROCK' unless they are trying to describe something fabulously unique and powerfully expressive to incomprehending pond-life like yourselves, capiche?) So: 'salad daze' 2 'dark reign/black book' 0
(Our own Mark Andrews really has nothing to fear when it comes to 'paint my name's precedents.)


secondly the story stops with wayne and craigs departure from the band but before the whole 'sisterhood' scenario so zero controversy there for me. nor does he seem too harsh on von, who really sounds like i always expected him to be: an awkward controlling cormudgeon of a perfectionist driven to the extreme and a proper cunt if he feels like being one! it is apparent that within the band at least no-one is what you might call close to eldritch and although hussey admits to harbouring faint hopes of bonding with von on some deeper level that never actually occurs; sonething that is at odds with certain tellings of the bands story (from, i hasten to add, sources around dbut not within the band itself).

which brings me to this: what i didnt realise was that he -wayne- has apparently had years of Sisters fans being cunts to him and blaming him for the dissent/disfunctionality within -and therefore ultimately the demise of- the band, something that was clearly well underway before he joined. now its unclear to what extent those accusations were directly made to wayne from the TSOM fanbase or how much was reported to him second hand by shit-stirrers from within the missions fanbase/sycophantic inner circle. who knows?
however, I (I'm going to say 'i' but actually it's 'we') have experienced downright unprovoked hostility in varying degrees from sections of the missions fanbase and it seems reasonable to assume that some of those shit-stirring cunts have sort of lumped 'us' -meaning those of us whose lessening of affection for the hussbag are for specific actual 'crimes' and disloyalties to the band a la attempted theft of the name- and US -meaning HLers, a more 'elite' (yes elite is an ugly word; use more intelligent if you prefer) tier of the fanbase as recognised by the band up to and including the chairman- all in together. which for me at least just isnt the case. so on this one point its fair to say Le Gargoyle* simply hasnt done his research.

* re 'Le Gargoyle' as an affectionate nick-name for WH: on facebook there have been complaints to moderators about my use of said nomenclature. like i say its affectionate; its been used by others and certainly wasnt my invention. what makes me larf my 'ead orf is in MY band The Glad Peas, one of my many many derogatory nicknames is ....The Gargoyle. and i'm nowhere near as hideously ugly as wayne. but he's no doubt shagged hundreds more men women and goats than me so fair does.

[Being645]

Thanks for that review, Lee. It supports my feeling that I, personally, don't need to buy and/or read it... nothing new in there... ...

[eastmidswhizzkid]

Thanks for that review, Lee. It supports my feeling that I, personally, don't need to buy and/or read it... nothing new in there... ...

its quite a good read though. a few nice pics. get it when its £0.05 pence

[Swinnow]

The book IS a good read, but possibly I am a bit more Mish friendly than most of the Heartland brothers and sisters. As Lee states it does end with Wayne and Craig's leaving and so we have to look forward to episode 2 for the stupidity (on both sides) of the Sisterhood months. My recollection of that time, from our rented hovel on Kelsall Rd in post Uni days, was that 99% of it was let's wind MM and NME up a bit and get cheap publicity - on BOTH sides. Certainly, the book shows that there was a certain expertise within the band as regards this practise.

That same recollection informs me that a hell of a lot of the same faces from Sisters gigs in 82/3/4/5 were seen at Mish gigs in 86/7, though that might be peculiar to Leeds. This informs me that there was no initial divide in any fanbase.

The book tells us, as others have, that certainly 2, and probably 3, wanted a live gigging band, but 1 was at odds. The book also suggests some of the reasons for this.

It was no real surprise to the local base that the Mish became that gigging offshoot. As time moved on and with the advent of online fora with their keyboard warriors it should be no surprise that a nastiness has appeared.

Live and let live, roll on episode 2 from La Huss. Also roll on Mark's book and, please, one from Gary/'other' Mark .

[eastmidswhizzkid]

The book IS a good read, but possibly I am a bit more Mish friendly than most of the Heartland brothers and sisters. As Lee states it does end with Wayne and Craig's leaving and so we have to look forward to episode 2 for the stupidity (on both sides) of the Sisterhood months. My recollection of that time, from our rented hovel on Kelsall Rd in post Uni days, was that 99% of it was let's wind MM and NME up a bit and get cheap publicity - on BOTH sides. Certainly, the book shows that there was a certain expertise within the band as regards this practise.

That same recollection informs me that a hell of a lot of the same faces from Sisters gigs in 82/3/4/5 were seen at Mish gigs in 86/7, though that might be peculiar to Leeds. This informs me that there was no initial divide in any fanbase.

The book tells us, as others have, that certainly 2, and probably 3, wanted a live gigging band, but 1 was at odds. The book also suggests some of the reasons for this.

It was no real surprise to the local base that the Mish became that gigging offshoot. As time moved on and with the advent of online fora with their keyboard warriors it should be no surprise that a nastiness has appeared.

Live and let live, roll on episode 2 from La Huss. Also roll on Mark's book and, please, one from Gary/'other' Mark .

cant disagree with any of that Chris. and no it wasnt just leeds, when the mish toured and released SK it was all of us who went down to see them . actually i saw the mish before the sisters having not been allowed by me mam to see them in 85 . i saw them play 3 or 4 times including up to the world crusade and the tour with AAE supporting cuz of severina. i just didnt like the direction musically aftser the like a hurricane/garden 12" and went to see Mark& Anne Marie instead.

[sam donut]

Yeah, I was a Mish friendly fan in Muckchester, and was in no way opposed to one band or the other after the split (ok I was only 15), but was a big fan of both. The Sisters were always/are always my favourite but I'm looking forward to reading Salad Daze. Ordered it straight away, but busy reading Moriarty 😂

[Pista]

i really enjoyed wayne's book. for starters its by far the least up-its-own-arse account of the period that i have read thus far, written as it is by someone who, like those of us old enough to have been around then, was/is a part of the scene.....unlike some mainstream fucktard hack who blatantly thought we Goths were fucking hilarious or some cretinous bystander whose sister had a siouxsie poster thus qualifying him for being the fucking 'i was there' oracle for the surely barely-interested historians/fans of musical subcultures (yes YOU mickey mouse mercer and dave something or other-whoever-the-fuck: NOBODY who listens to Our Music and loves it calls it 'GOTHIC fucking ROCK' unless they are trying to describe something fabulously unique and powerfully expressive to incomprehending pond-life like yourselves, capiche?) So: 'salad daze' 2 'dark reign/black book' 0
(Our own Mark Andrews really has nothing to fear when it comes to 'paint my name's precedents.)


secondly the story stops with wayne and craigs departure from the band but before the whole 'sisterhood' scenario so zero controversy there for me. nor does he seem too harsh on von, who really sounds like i always expected him to be: an awkward controlling cormudgeon of a perfectionist driven to the extreme and a proper cunt if he feels like being one! it is apparent that within the band at least no-one is what you might call close to eldritch and although hussey admits to harbouring faint hopes of bonding with von on some deeper level that never actually occurs; sonething that is at odds with certain tellings of the bands story (from, i hasten to add, sources around dbut not within the band itself).

which brings me to this: what i didnt realise was that he -wayne- has apparently had years of Sisters fans being cunts to him and blaming him for the dissent/disfunctionality within -and therefore ultimately the demise of- the band, something that was clearly well underway before he joined. now its unclear to what extent those accusations were directly made to wayne from the TSOM fanbase or how much was reported to him second hand by shit-stirrers from within the missions fanbase/sycophantic inner circle. who knows?
however, I (I'm going to say 'i' but actually it's 'we') have experienced downright unprovoked hostility in varying degrees from sections of the missions fanbase and it seems reasonable to assume that some of those shit-stirring cunts have sort of lumped 'us' -meaning those of us whose lessening of affection for the hussbag are for specific actual 'crimes' and disloyalties to the band a la attempted theft of the name- and US -meaning HLers, a more 'elite' (yes elite is an ugly word; use more intelligent if you prefer) tier of the fanbase as recognised by the band up to and including the chairman- all in together. which for me at least just isnt the case. so on this one point its fair to say Le Gargoyle* simply hasnt done his research.

* re 'Le Gargoyle' as an affectionate nick-name for WH: on facebook there have been complaints to moderators about my use of said nomenclature. like i say its affectionate; its been used by others and certainly wasnt my invention. what makes me larf my 'ead orf is in MY band The Glad Peas, one of my many many derogatory nicknames is ....The Gargoyle. and i'm nowhere near as hideously ugly as wayne. but he's no doubt shagged hundreds more men women and goats than me so fair does.

That's prolly the best book review I have ever read

[sam donut]

That's what I meant, but I'm drunk! It's a corker though!

[eastmidswhizzkid]

i really enjoyed wayne's book. for starters its by far the least up-its-own-arse account of the period that i have read thus far, written as it is by someone who, like those of us old enough to have been around then, was/is a part of the scene.....unlike some mainstream fucktard hack who blatantly thought we Goths were fucking hilarious or some cretinous bystander whose sister had a siouxsie poster thus qualifying him for being the fucking 'i was there' oracle for the surely barely-interested historians/fans of musical subcultures (yes YOU mickey mouse mercer and dave something or other-whoever-the-fuck: NOBODY who listens to Our Music and loves it calls it 'GOTHIC fucking ROCK' unless they are trying to describe something fabulously unique and powerfully expressive to incomprehending pond-life like yourselves, capiche?) So: 'salad daze' 2 'dark reign/black book' 0
(Our own Mark Andrews really has nothing to fear when it comes to 'paint my name's precedents.)


secondly the story stops with wayne and craigs departure from the band but before the whole 'sisterhood' scenario so zero controversy there for me. nor does he seem too harsh on von, who really sounds like i always expected him to be: an awkward controlling cormudgeon of a perfectionist driven to the extreme and a proper cunt if he feels like being one! it is apparent that within the band at least no-one is what you might call close to eldritch and although hussey admits to harbouring faint hopes of bonding with von on some deeper level that never actually occurs; sonething that is at odds with certain tellings of the bands story (from, i hasten to add, sources around dbut not within the band itself).

which brings me to this: what i didnt realise was that he -wayne- has apparently had years of Sisters fans being cunts to him and blaming him for the dissent/disfunctionality within -and therefore ultimately the demise of- the band, something that was clearly well underway before he joined. now its unclear to what extent those accusations were directly made to wayne from the TSOM fanbase or how much was reported to him second hand by shit-stirrers from within the missions fanbase/sycophantic inner circle. who knows?
however, I (I'm going to say 'i' but actually it's 'we') have experienced downright unprovoked hostility in varying degrees from sections of the missions fanbase and it seems reasonable to assume that some of those shit-stirring cunts have sort of lumped 'us' -meaning those of us whose lessening of affection for the hussbag are for specific actual 'crimes' and disloyalties to the band a la attempted theft of the name- and US -meaning HLers, a more 'elite' (yes elite is an ugly word; use more intelligent if you prefer) tier of the fanbase as recognised by the band up to and including the chairman- all in together. which for me at least just isnt the case. so on this one point its fair to say Le Gargoyle* simply hasnt done his research.

* re 'Le Gargoyle' as an affectionate nick-name for WH: on facebook there have been complaints to moderators about my use of said nomenclature. like i say its affectionate; its been used by others and certainly wasnt my invention. what makes me larf my 'ead orf is in MY band The Glad Peas, one of my many many derogatory nicknames is ....The Gargoyle. and i'm nowhere near as hideously ugly as wayne. but he's no doubt shagged hundreds more men women and goats than me so fair does.

That's prolly the best book review I have ever read

thanks Steve, Sam.

[Swinnow]

Hey Lee we all also loved the Ghost Dance gigs. See ya in that London

[eastmidswhizzkid]

Hey Lee we all also loved the Ghost Dance gigs. See ya in that London

looking forward to it mate.

[Yggdrasil]

Interesting. Wayne maintains that it is him and Craig and the track. He specifically says that they recorded it before the split and it was later released as the b side of Dominion.

Well, Wayne is specifically wrong. It's a weird claim.

"Emma" was recorded for the single in January 1988 at The Church Studios in North London, with final overdubs and mixing completed at Master Rock Studios in Kilburn. Morrison provided the bass guitar for the track. Both she and the producer has provided very specific details about the recording, including Patricia in an interview outlining exactly how she achieved the bass sound (Tube screamer pedal IIRC).

[eastmidswhizzkid]

Well, Wayne is specifically wrong. It's a weird claim.

"Emma" was recorded for the single in January 1988 at The Church Studios in North London, with final overdubs and mixing completed at Master Rock Studios in Kilburn. Morrison provided the bass guitar for the track. Both she and the producer has provided very specific details about the recording, including Patricia in an interview outlining exactly how she achieved the bass sound (Tube screamer pedal IIRC).

i think the relevant passage in Wayne's book has just been misread as what he says is:

"We had an idea to release a covers EP featuring the two tracks we'd began recording earlier, 'Emma' and 'Knocking On heaven's Door', and so booked into Strawberry yet again to finish and mix the two songs..........................Neither song saw the light of day while Craig and I were still in the band though I do believe they became available on bootleg shortly after our departure.
..................................
'Emma' was eventually officially released with a newly recorded vocal by the 'Dritch as an extra track on the later TSOM 12-inch single, 'Dominion'. "

All of which is true however it is written in an ambiguous way which could be read as meaning that that particular recording of 'Emma' was the one eventually released.

[Being645]

"Emma" was recorded for the single in January 1988 at The Church Studios in North London, with final overdubs and mixing completed at Master Rock Studios in Kilburn. Morrison provided the bass guitar for the track. Both she and the producer has provided very specific details about the recording, including Patricia in an interview outlining exactly how she achieved the bass sound (Tube screamer pedal IIRC).

Good to know! ... ... Do you remember where this Morrison interview can be found?

[lazarus corporation]

Given the stupendous amount of tweaking, recording, re-recording, sampling etc that Von is notorious for when he gets into a studio, I simply can't believe that guitar and bass tracks recorded in 1985(?) - regardless of who played them - survived to be released in 1988. He would have changed and re-recorded them at least 100 times over the course of 3 days, let alone 3 years.

Yes, I think eastmidswhizzkid's explanation is correct (I haven't read the book) - it's an ambiguous passage in the book, but all it says is that the Song was eventually officially released in 1998, not that the guitar and bass tracks by Wayne and Craig were part of the officially released song.

[Elfink]

One of the highlights for me was finally finding out who actually plays the guitar and bass on the version of Emma that was on the B - side of Dominion.

Well it sure wasn't Wayne and Craig....

Check the Sisters FAQ here on Heartland for correct info.[/img]

Interesting. Wayne maintains that it is him and Craig and the track. He specifically says that they recorded it before the split and it was later released as the b side of Dominion.

I'm sure that I read that it was a soundcheck..Albert Hall? or was that Led Zeppelin. Actually, if it was Led Zeppelin then doubtless Von would do it too.

[Swinnow]

Oh jeez I really don't need to imagine Von wailing about juice running down his leg

[Elfink]

i think the relevant passage in Wayne's book has just been misread as what he says is:

"We had an idea to release a covers EP featuring the two tracks we'd began recording earlier, 'Emma' and 'Knocking On heaven's Door', and so booked into Strawberry yet again to finish and mix the two songs..........................Neither song saw the light of day while Craig and I were still in the band though I do believe they became available on bootleg shortly after our departure.
..................................
'Emma' was eventually officially released with a newly recorded vocal by the 'Dritch as an extra track on the later TSOM 12-inch single, 'Dominion'. "

All of which is true however it is written in an ambiguous way which could be read as meaning that that particular recording of 'Emma' was the one eventually released.

Ah, sorry..hadn't read this page when I quoted that...end.

[Elfink]

i really enjoyed wayne's book. for starters its by far the least up-its-own-arse account of the period that i have read thus far, written as it is by someone who, like those of us old enough to have been around then, was/is a part of the scene.....unlike some mainstream fucktard hack who blatantly thought we Goths were fucking hilarious or some cretinous bystander whose sister had a siouxsie poster thus qualifying him for being the fucking 'i was there' oracle for the surely barely-interested historians/fans of musical subcultures (yes YOU mickey mouse mercer and dave something or other-whoever-the-fuck: NOBODY who listens to Our Music and loves it calls it 'GOTHIC fucking ROCK' unless they are trying to describe something fabulously unique and powerfully expressive to incomprehending pond-life like yourselves, capiche?) So: 'salad daze' 2 'dark reign/black book' 0
(Our own Mark Andrews really has nothing to fear when it comes to 'paint my name's precedents.)


secondly the story stops with wayne and craigs departure from the band but before the whole 'sisterhood' scenario so zero controversy there for me. nor does he seem too harsh on von, who really sounds like i always expected him to be: an awkward controlling cormudgeon of a perfectionist driven to the extreme and a proper cunt if he feels like being one! it is apparent that within the band at least no-one is what you might call close to eldritch and although hussey admits to harbouring faint hopes of bonding with von on some deeper level that never actually occurs; sonething that is at odds with certain tellings of the bands story (from, i hasten to add, sources around dbut not within the band itself).

which brings me to this: what i didnt realise was that he -wayne- has apparently had years of Sisters fans being cunts to him and blaming him for the dissent/disfunctionality within -and therefore ultimately the demise of- the band, something that was clearly well underway before he joined. now its unclear to what extent those accusations were directly made to wayne from the TSOM fanbase or how much was reported to him second hand by shit-stirrers from within the missions fanbase/sycophantic inner circle. who knows?
however, I (I'm going to say 'i' but actually it's 'we') have experienced downright unprovoked hostility in varying degrees from sections of the missions fanbase and it seems reasonable to assume that some of those shit-stirring cunts have sort of lumped 'us' -meaning those of us whose lessening of affection for the hussbag are for specific actual 'crimes' and disloyalties to the band a la attempted theft of the name- and US -meaning HLers, a more 'elite' (yes elite is an ugly word; use more intelligent if you prefer) tier of the fanbase as recognised by the band up to and including the chairman- all in together. which for me at least just isnt the case. so on this one point its fair to say Le Gargoyle* simply hasnt done his research.

* re 'Le Gargoyle' as an affectionate nick-name for WH: on facebook there have been complaints to moderators about my use of said nomenclature. like i say its affectionate; its been used by others and certainly wasnt my invention. what makes me larf my 'ead orf is in MY band The Glad Peas, one of my many many derogatory nicknames is ....The Gargoyle. and i'm nowhere near as hideously ugly as wayne. but he's no doubt shagged hundreds more men women and goats than me so fair does.

Now this one!
We all loved the Mish in those first few months..there was nothing that exciting..they took the essence of the Sisters and mixed it with Peter Cook, the Goodies and cross dressing.

Wayne had a great way of climbing that PA stack and getting stuck like a stupid cat.

Like the Holy Fool but without the Holy.

Did he steal the road crew? did he steal the name?
Did he give his mates a job and poke a fire to life in the press?

I go for option 2.

Wayne's always been the cool one for me..His stupid and normal and northern and I dunno..he's like the guy who'd come and fit your windows...Eldritch? he's not cool..he pretends to be but he's too uptight. He's nervous. Wayne just isn't.
It's just that Andy had the better songs and the better airbrush on rock music...Wayne had a crap vision...Jim Steinman! Come On!
Von wins but Wayne should have.

[eastmidswhizzkid]

Did he steal the road crew? did he steal the name?

The majority of the mish's live crew (to start with anyway) had previously been the Sisters live crew but as the Sisters didnt play live again for over 5 years i dont think anyone could accuse wayne of stealing them; nor, i'm sure, would Andrew have begrudged them the work.

As for the name, if you mean 'The Sisters Of Mercy' he tried to ; if you mean 'The Mission' he denies it saying that had the new bands name been taken from the proposed title of the next Sisters album -"Left On Mission And Revenge"- then it would have been 'Revenge'.

[Being645]

"Emma" was recorded for the single in January 1988 at The Church Studios in North London, with final overdubs and mixing completed at Master Rock Studios in Kilburn. Morrison provided the bass guitar for the track. Both she and the producer has provided very specific details about the recording, including Patricia in an interview outlining exactly how she achieved the bass sound (Tube screamer pedal IIRC).

Again, good to know! ... ... Do you remember where this Morrison interview can be found? I'd really love to read it ... ...

[Swinnow]

Road crew stealing? Well I think we could probably point at Von in 1990 for that crime rather than The Mish in 1986, although head hunted would be a more modern view. I guess this 'Mercenary' episode will be in Daze II.

[An]

All this debates about Hussey and Eldritch reminds me very of Gilmour vs. Waters of Pink Floyd. Each band has to have its powerstruggles.