Russia invaded Ukraine

[sharedgum]

Fascinating discussion!

I agree with the comments that the issue here is that the US is flawed, which makes the entire situation more challenging when it is trying to assert itself as the world leader. So when Russia says - well, you're going after us, but you went to Iraq for no reason and all those people died, and in your own country, your own citizens are not free (racial minorities) - they are actually making valid points. Am I buying it that Russia is somehow better when it comes to this? Definitely not, otherwise, I would consider moving there, and that is not the case. Does this excuse what they are doing? Definitely not. But it's just making it more challenging to mount a more credible campaign against any country that decides to conquer another. One big difference between the two is the freedom of press. So for example, when it became clear to most US Citizens that the Iraq War was a farce, the party that got us in that war was hit with major losses in 2006 and 2008. And this is just not happening in Russia. So there is some accountability, still, but not sure for how long this will last in the US. But, if I were a black kid living in a poor neighborhood seeing the police beating up my dad for no reason and conducting raids all the time, would I think that we were a free country?

I am deeply worried about what will happen in the US in 2024, and whether the US will cease to exist. Actually, I honestly don't care if we split up, that may be my preference for as long as it happens peacefully, but I care about potential wars and conflicts that may result from it. I kindly disagree with the statement that the propaganda by both the extreme left and the extreme right has gotten us where we are. The difference in the US is that the extreme right wing views, in my opinion, are present in the US Congress, whereas what is considered "extreme left" here is simply considered center/normal in Europe and Canada (public option health care leading to longer life expectancy and much cheaper university education, for example).

Anyway, hoping that people everywhere in the world will come to their senses soon. Peace to all!

[Incoming!]

So a bit over a year later this thread has determined two things:

1) Russia invaded the Ukraine
2) The US is flawed

I have never in my life objected to #2, and I live in the US.
Russia invaded the Ukraine - is a consensus statement.

Has anyone changed their opinions since this thread started?

[iesus]

What opinion? We all know that Patricia is not descended to pre-noah people and that is a fact not an opinion. There is a big difference to that 2

[Incoming!]

What opinion? We all know that Patricia is not descended to pre-noah people and that is a fact not an opinion. There is a big difference to that 2

Snort!

[primasvisage]

So a bit over a year later this thread has determined two things:

1) Russia invaded the Ukraine
2) The US is flawed

I have never in my life objected to #2, and I live in the US.
Russia invaded the Ukraine - is a consensus statement.

Has anyone changed their opinions since this thread started?

not so much changed, more that I see the (power) strength in moderation.
perhaps it's not so much the individual thread and more the weave

[primasvisage]

public record IS of importance for education and moderation.
I've just come across this

https://lmc.icds.ee/lennart-meri-lecture-by-fiona-hill/

which I found interesting - although I cannot say that I knew who either Lennart Meri was or Fiona Hill is.

I actually posted that in another thread, for the record, the track?.

continuing here
--but maybe the EU is flawed in addition and is being put in a spot (but is not rebelling as Ms. Hill claimed the South, India, and more are)
https://wolfgangstreeck.com/2023/05/02/ ... lar-order/

[primasvisage]

and here:
https://plus2.credit-suisse.com/shortur ... t6fbbldzzx

[Incoming!]

public record IS of importance for education and moderation.
I've just come across this

https://lmc.icds.ee/lennart-meri-lecture-by-fiona-hill/

which I found interesting - although I cannot say that I knew who either Lennart Meri was or Fiona Hill is.

I actually posted that in another thread, for the record, the track?.

continuing here
--but maybe the EU is flawed in addition and is being put in a spot (but is not rebelling as Ms. Hill claimed the South, India, and more are)
https://wolfgangstreeck.com/2023/05/02/ ... lar-order/

"Le Carré connoisseur knows that where the secret services are involved, any kind of evidence can easily be discovered if needed" or disinformation spread. I'm a huge Le Carre fan

Interesting article. Especially because I'll own my own ignorance on world politics. Which wasn't always the case. And it is good that the publication tells you exactly what political view it has up front. No guessing.

[Incoming!]

public record IS of importance for education and moderation.
I've just come across this

https://lmc.icds.ee/lennart-meri-lecture-by-fiona-hill/

which I found interesting - although I cannot say that I knew who either Lennart Meri was or Fiona Hill is.

I actually posted that in another thread, for the record, the track?.

continuing here
--but maybe the EU is flawed in addition and is being put in a spot (but is not rebelling as Ms. Hill claimed the South, India, and more are)
https://wolfgangstreeck.com/2023/05/02/ ... lar-order/

I think all countries are flawed - as they are all developed by and run by humans. I believe humans are innately flawed - a very western Christian view.

Funny how countries rebel against the "bipolarism of power" yet when things get bad - like during the pandemic - they look to the bipolar country to help them out. Do we continue to build empire? (I believe US empire has been in decline since the 60s) at our own expense of course. Or take an isolationist view of the world? And focus on our own issues. Like many countries do yet depend on US help.

Hell, why do we have boots on the ground in Kenya to protect a pipeline under construction?

The internet has allowed for the dissemination of information AND disinformation. Worrisome for some of us pre-internet scholars.

[primasvisage]

I think it's good to be upfront, but it's also good to be guessing.

the EU is not a country, it is a number of them, with to-do lists and higher callings. some people think it is more of a rule book than an agreement, and that might be the crux, the overdesignedness which amounts to over thinking (for others). I have no problems with flaws, even innate ones, it's skewed I have a problem with: think gerrymander. is that what is meant by Western Christian view?

[primasvisage]

decisions decisions:
1) no to empire
2) yes to helping. I got heartburn when the issue of scrapping vaccine patents was not pursued. that wasn't the US, that was a country at the center of the EU, OK Germany!

[Incoming!]

I think it's good to be upfront, but it's also good to be guessing.

the EU is not a country, it is a number of them, with to-do lists and higher callings. some people think it is more of a rule book than an agreement, and that might be the crux, the overdesignedness which amounts to over thinking (for others). I have no problems with flaws, even innate ones, it's skewed I have a problem with: think gerrymander. is that what is meant by Western Christian view?

I meant by Western Christian view is that westerners on the earth tend to believe man is innately evil. And must learn to be good. And the opposite for Eastern religions. People are born good and can become evil.

The two approaches to life should reflect in the politics of nations.

And no I'm not going to go all Bible thumping here. I believe earth is Lucifer's domain. Nation's political views reflect that.

Now that I have gotten over my Catholic upbringing rant. I'm watching gerrymandering happen right here in my state. Actually it passed.

And now cause I'm totally tired and rambling (I'm sorry for that cause you are obviously a smart fellow) I want to know where the hell I was and what was I doing in 2006 to have missed the TSOM at one of the diveiest venues in town. So retro pissed at myself right now.

[primasvisage]

I think it's good to be upfront, but it's also good to be guessing.

the EU is not a country, it is a number of them, with to-do lists and higher callings. some people think it is more of a rule book than an agreement, and that might be the crux, the overdesignedness which amounts to over thinking (for others). I have no problems with flaws, even innate ones, it's skewed I have a problem with: think gerrymander. is that what is meant by Western Christian view?

I meant by Western Christian view is that westerners on the earth tend to believe man is innately evil. And must learn to be good. And the opposite for Eastern religions. People are born good and can become evil.

The two approaches to life should reflect in the politics of nations.

And no I'm not going to go all Bible thumping here. I believe earth is Lucifer's domain. Nation's political views reflect that.

Now that I have gotten over my Catholic upbringing rant. I'm watching gerrymandering happen right here in my state. Actually it passed.

And now cause I'm totally tired and rambling (I'm sorry for that cause you are obviously a smart fellow) I want to know where the hell I was and what was I doing in 2006 to have missed the TSOM at one of the diveiest venues in town. So retro pissed at myself right now.

um, not sure not remembering.....I may have been up in Denver at the Lion's Lair, but maybe in Bilblau, uh, sorry Bilbao.
but you mean TSOM played the Launchpad? that would have been something, I was not there, sadly. and now I'm remembering seeing Melt Banana at the Launchpad with my sister, who works at the Zoo there in ABQ.

I was in town last year but it was too hot to think - and this was October - are they trying to swerve the Rio Grande?

still, think the Launchpad a better dive than playing for Meeuw Wolf up in Santa Fe, even if they seem to be cool people. I still like the circuit even if curated events in specific places is making more sense after Corona.
I do like the beer.

[primasvisage]

I think it's good to be upfront, but it's also good to be guessing.

the EU is not a country, it is a number of them, with to-do lists and higher callings. some people think it is more of a rule book than an agreement, and that might be the crux, the overdesignedness which amounts to over thinking (for others). I have no problems with flaws, even innate ones, it's skewed I have a problem with: think gerrymander. is that what is meant by Western Christian view?

I meant by Western Christian view is that westerners on the earth tend to believe man is innately evil. And must learn to be good. And the opposite for Eastern religions. People are born good and can become evil.

The two approaches to life should reflect in the politics of nations.

And no I'm not going to go all Bible thumping here. I believe earth is Lucifer's domain. Nation's political views reflect that.

Now that I have gotten over my Catholic upbringing rant. I'm watching gerrymandering happen right here in my state. Actually it passed.

And now cause I'm totally tired and rambling (I'm sorry for that cause you are obviously a smart fellow) I want to know where the hell I was and what was I doing in 2006 to have missed the TSOM at one of the diveiest venues in town. So retro pissed at myself right now.

I agree, institutions should reflect that.

speaking of, I'm all for European Community, and enjoy it - sometimes I wish for more of the edge and less of the rounded corner (from across the ocean).
it just occured to me: I do wonder what seeing the Sisters is like in different places. think I'll try to make it to Vizkaya, no promises....

[Incoming!]

I think it's good to be upfront, but it's also good to be guessing.

the EU is not a country, it is a number of them, with to-do lists and higher callings. some people think it is more of a rule book than an agreement, and that might be the crux, the overdesignedness which amounts to over thinking (for others). I have no problems with flaws, even innate ones, it's skewed I have a problem with: think gerrymander. is that what is meant by Western Christian view?

I meant by Western Christian view is that westerners on the earth tend to believe man is innately evil. And must learn to be good. And the opposite for Eastern religions. People are born good and can become evil.

The two approaches to life should reflect in the politics of nations.

And no I'm not going to go all Bible thumping here. I believe earth is Lucifer's domain. Nation's political views reflect that.

Now that I have gotten over my Catholic upbringing rant. I'm watching gerrymandering happen right here in my state. Actually it passed.

And now cause I'm totally tired and rambling (I'm sorry for that cause you are obviously a smart fellow) I want to know where the hell I was and what was I doing in 2006 to have missed the TSOM at one of the diveiest venues in town. So retro pissed at myself right now.

um, not sure not remembering.....I may have been up in Denver at the Lion's Lair, but maybe in Bilblau, uh, sorry Bilbao.
but you mean TSOM played the Launchpad? that would have been something, I was not there, sadly. and now I'm remembering seeing Melt Banana at the Launchpad with my sister, who works at the Zoo there in ABQ.

I was in town last year but it was too hot to think - and this was October - are they trying to swerve the Rio Grande?

still, think the Launchpad a better dive than playing for Meeuw Wolf up in Santa Fe, even if they seem to be cool people. I still like the circuit even if curated events in specific places is making more sense after Corona.
I do like the beer.

Launchpad. I have good memories of seeing obscure bands there. TSOM played the El Rey Theater. When it was still a biker bar. And no matter how a woman looked the bikers always made sure we wouldn't get hassled by men unless we wanted it. Nice that.

We have a crap load of privately owned breweries down here now. Very chi chi. I haven't had a drink in like 20 years - which may explain why I don't remember where and what I was doing in 2006.

[Incoming!]

I think it's good to be upfront, but it's also good to be guessing.

the EU is not a country, it is a number of them, with to-do lists and higher callings. some people think it is more of a rule book than an agreement, and that might be the crux, the overdesignedness which amounts to over thinking (for others). I have no problems with flaws, even innate ones, it's skewed I have a problem with: think gerrymander. is that what is meant by Western Christian view?

I meant by Western Christian view is that westerners on the earth tend to believe man is innately evil. And must learn to be good. And the opposite for Eastern religions. People are born good and can become evil.

The two approaches to life should reflect in the politics of nations.

And no I'm not going to go all Bible thumping here. I believe earth is Lucifer's domain. Nation's political views reflect that.

Now that I have gotten over my Catholic upbringing rant. I'm watching gerrymandering happen right here in my state. Actually it passed.

And now cause I'm totally tired and rambling (I'm sorry for that cause you are obviously a smart fellow) I want to know where the hell I was and what was I doing in 2006 to have missed the TSOM at one of the diveiest venues in town. So retro pissed at myself right now.

I agree, institutions should reflect that.

speaking of, I'm all for European Community, and enjoy it - sometimes I wish for more of the edge and less of the rounded corner (from across the ocean).
it just occured to me: I do wonder what seeing the Sisters is like in different places. think I'll try to make it to Vizkaya, no promises....

I have friends in the UK. So they don't talk EU. I have one friend in Germany. She's really unhappy with the immigration issue. The US needs immigrants. But we do need immigration reform - i.e. make it easier and more tansparent to get in. I'm thinking of seeing TSOM in London. But the flight prices. Holy macaroni. The prices. And it's the end of the government's fiscal year. Which means my life is hell.

I love the idea of the EU. I just think the group is bogged down in bureacracy.

Oh, and I think a lot of people forget, or don't know - there are huge uranium reserves in Western Ukraine. A source the US was using and still. Like idiots we believed in the START treaty and shut down and cut back like required. No one else did though.

Where the heck do you live now? I'm obviously still In Albuquerque.

[primasvisage]

I meant by Western Christian view is that westerners on the earth tend to believe man is innately evil. And must learn to be good. And the opposite for Eastern religions. People are born good and can become evil.

The two approaches to life should reflect in the politics of nations.

And no I'm not going to go all Bible thumping here. I believe earth is Lucifer's domain. Nation's political views reflect that.

Now that I have gotten over my Catholic upbringing rant. I'm watching gerrymandering happen right here in my state. Actually it passed.

And now cause I'm totally tired and rambling (I'm sorry for that cause you are obviously a smart fellow) I want to know where the hell I was and what was I doing in 2006 to have missed the TSOM at one of the diveiest venues in town. So retro pissed at myself right now.

I agree, institutions should reflect that.

speaking of, I'm all for European Community, and enjoy it - sometimes I wish for more of the edge and less of the rounded corner (from across the ocean).
it just occured to me: I do wonder what seeing the Sisters is like in different places. think I'll try to make it to Vizkaya, no promises....

I have friends in the UK. So they don't talk EU. I have one friend in Germany. She's really unhappy with the immigration issue. The US needs immigrants. But we do need immigration reform - i.e. make it easier and more tansparent to get in. I'm thinking of seeing TSOM in London. But the flight prices. Holy macaroni. The prices. And it's the end of the government's fiscal year. Which means my life is hell.

I love the idea of the EU. I just think the group is bogged down in bureacracy.

Oh, and I think a lot of people forget, or don't know - there are huge uranium reserves in Western Ukraine. A source the US was using and still. Like idiots we believed in the START treaty and shut down and cut back like required. No one else did though.

Where the heck do you live now? I'm obviously still In Albuquerque.

Well, I've been unstuck lately, reckon the other side of them mountains. I do get Nostalgia For The Light, for reals - ok München

I've been in Germany more and less since around the first time I didn't see the Sisters (Ludwigsburg 1990 or '91). it was my first time trying, needless to say something spanned my attention.

yes the mineral silence, makes you forget - I was looking at an article yesterday about potential huge lithium reservoirs, it was written from a Palestinian POV , but they were quoting Israeli media and there was a picture of a mining operation in Nevada, said so in the caption, even though the find was within Iran. I couldn't read it, but my guess as well, this is what makes a difference

[primasvisage]

I have friends in the UK. So they don't talk EU. I have one friend in Germany. She's really unhappy with the immigration issue. The US needs immigrants. But we do need immigration reform - i.e. make it easier and more tansparent to get in. I'm thinking of seeing TSOM in London. But the flight prices. Holy macaroni. The prices. And it's the end of the government's fiscal year. Which means my life is hell.

I love the idea of the EU. I just think the group is bogged down in bureacracy.

I have friends from the UK, but I've never been. I love listening to it on the Tv when I can though. takes me outside myself like no "foreign language" could ever do.

immigration, still is the gist and where I notice I've no clear insights on my take.

[Incoming!]

[/quote]
Well, I've been unstuck lately, reckon the other side of them mountains. I do get Nostalgia For The Light, for reals - ok München

I've been in Germany more and less since around the first time I didn't see the Sisters (Ludwigsburg 1990 or '91). it was my first time trying, needless to say something spanned my attention.

yes the mineral silence, makes you forget - I was looking at an article yesterday about potential huge lithium reservoirs, it was written from a Palestinian POV , but they were quoting Israeli media and there was a picture of a mining operation in Nevada, said so in the caption, even though the find was within Iran. I couldn't read it, but my guess as well, this is what makes a difference
[/quote]

Forgot about Lithium. I know a lot of ex-pats but they live in Mexico - so much cheaper.

I lived in Dusseldorf for about 10 months. I find the German people welcoming but it takes awhile. Most people call Americans superficial. I'm on the fence about that.

I saw the Cure in Frankfurt. The crowd was just wonderful to be around.

I hope you get a chance to see them. And you know, normally I avoid the computer when I'm done working cause I spend my entire work day on one. But you've inspired me to get re-caught up on the world.