Not sure how many people around here are fans, but he meant a lot to a lot of people in my life. It's not unexpected, of course (I've been listening to The Snake all week, so I guess it was obvious that it was coming). I do wish the Shane Gang record had come out, or that he'd had people around him who weren't so interested in profiting off his being a wreck. I thought he was an astonishing songwriter.
https://news.sky.com/story/shane-macgow ... t-13008693
RIP Shane MacGowan
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sultan2075
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
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eastmidswhizzkid
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Sad news to hear. RIP Shane.
Well I was handsome and I was strong
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
And I knew the words to every song.
"Did my singing please you?"
"No! The words you sang were wrong!"
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sultan2075
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I wish I'd gotten to see him live. I had tickets to see Shane & the Popes in Dallas back in 2000 or 2001. The band drove with the gear two days from San Francisco. Shane was supposed to fly into Dallas the day of the show, but apparently they wouldn't let him board. One of the guys from the band told me that they'd gotten him a "babysitter" to prevent things like this from happening, but that "the babysitter needs a babysitter." The Popes played without him, and absolutely blew the roof off the joint. They were fantastic - brought people up from the audience to sing Shane's songs, but mostly played a lot of their own stuff.
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
Wasn't really a big fan of his, but I was taken to see The Pogues in Brighton in 1985 & it was a bl00dy good laugh. Even the security people were plastered. This is terribly sad news.
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Planet Dave
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Sad news, tbh I had it in my mind that he'd already passed some time ago.
Saw The Pogues once at Leeds Uni refectory, early 90s, he was plastered and they were awful; and once with The Popes at the free Heineken Music Fest in Roundhay Park mid 90s where he and they were outstanding. RIP Sir, you made a difference.
Saw The Pogues once at Leeds Uni refectory, early 90s, he was plastered and they were awful; and once with The Popes at the free Heineken Music Fest in Roundhay Park mid 90s where he and they were outstanding. RIP Sir, you made a difference.
'What a heavy load Einstein must have had. Morons everywhere.'
I like Irish music and it's sad to hear such news 
Rip Shane
Rip Shane 'Are we the Baddies?'...
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
"Someday! Someday, everything you need, is just gonna fall out of the sky..." -A.E. Reading 1991
"Don't forget that most of the judges in witches trials had harvard degrees."
I'm curious how Irish people view him? As a purveyor of Irishness and being proud or as perpetuating negative Irish stereotypes. (or somewhere in between)
I always viewed him as a curiosity - I loved "If I should fall from grace" and listended to it constanly when it came out - beautiful lyrically. But this was set against somebody who always in a complete stupor and difficult to take seriously. I would often just feel sorry for him.
I always viewed him as a curiosity - I loved "If I should fall from grace" and listended to it constanly when it came out - beautiful lyrically. But this was set against somebody who always in a complete stupor and difficult to take seriously. I would often just feel sorry for him.
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sultan2075
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GC wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023, 15:11 I'm curious how Irish people view him? As a purveyor of Irishness and being proud or as perpetuating negative Irish stereotypes. (or somewhere in between)
I always viewed him as a curiosity - I loved "If I should fall from grace" and listended to it constanly when it came out - beautiful lyrically. But this was set against somebody who always in a complete stupor and difficult to take seriously. I would often just feel sorry for him.
I can't speak for the Irish Irish, but if I were to take a stab at it, I'd say "somewhere in between." He did a lot to re-invigorate Irish music (and at his best he was, in my opinion, an astonishingly talented songwriter), but he also embodied a lot of negative stereotypes despite his talent. For folks like me (who grew up American, but in a home where some family members spoke Irish as their first language rather than English), his pride in being Irish (while he was also part of the diaspora) was easy to relate to, and maybe even necessary for a lot of us. He certainly gave voice to experiences that were common to a lot of first/second generation descendants of Irish immigrants in the American northeast. He was "visibly" Irish in a way that someone like Bono never really seemed to be, and certainly in the 80's that probably meant a lot to people who lived where anti-Irish sentiment was still acceptable (something I experienced as a child in both New York and Texas).
I think maybe the other thing I’d add is that the Pogues took the stuff I always heard at home, which wasn’t really accepted in the wider world I lived in, and made it “cool” at least for a while.
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
Its interesting that you dont view U2 (Bono) as being visibly Irish. As a welshman with our own problems with being recognised I always viewed The Pogues as a beacon of Irish fatalism (if that is a term?) where it all ultimately ends in failure and/or alcoholism. U2 also embraced their Irishness (IMO) but were more focussed on progression and consolidation. A bit like comparing Richard Burton with Anthony Hopkins.sultan2075 wrote: ↑03 Dec 2023, 00:31GC wrote: ↑02 Dec 2023, 15:11 I'm curious how Irish people view him? As a purveyor of Irishness and being proud or as perpetuating negative Irish stereotypes. (or somewhere in between)
I always viewed him as a curiosity - I loved "If I should fall from grace" and listended to it constanly when it came out - beautiful lyrically. But this was set against somebody who always in a complete stupor and difficult to take seriously. I would often just feel sorry for him.
I can't speak for the Irish Irish, but if I were to take a stab at it, I'd say "somewhere in between." He did a lot to re-invigorate Irish music (and at his best he was, in my opinion, an astonishingly talented songwriter), but he also embodied a lot of negative stereotypes despite his talent. For folks like me (who grew up American, but in a home where some family members spoke Irish as their first language rather than English), his pride in being Irish (while he was also part of the diaspora) was easy to relate to, and maybe even necessary for a lot of us. He certainly gave voice to experiences that were common to a lot of first/second generation descendants of Irish immigrants in the American northeast. He was "visibly" Irish in a way that someone like Bono never really seemed to be, and certainly in the 80's that probably meant a lot to people who lived where anti-Irish sentiment was still acceptable (something I experienced as a child in both New York and Texas).
I think maybe the other thing I’d add is that the Pogues took the stuff I always heard at home, which wasn’t really accepted in the wider world I lived in, and made it “cool” at least for a while.
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sultan2075
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Facetiously, I'm tempted to say "he's too handsome"GC wrote: ↑03 Dec 2023, 21:34
Its interesting that you dont view U2 (Bono) as being visibly Irish. As a welshman with our own problems with being recognised I always viewed The Pogues as a beacon of Irish fatalism (if that is a term?) where it all ultimately ends in failure and/or alcoholism. U2 also embraced their Irishness (IMO) but were more focussed on progression and consolidation. A bit like comparing Richard Burton with Anthony Hopkins.
I suppose more seriously, Bono always seemed to have broader ambitions, and at least in the US, it always seemed that a lot of people were completely unaware that they were an Irish band (maybe I moved in particularly parochial and ignorant punk-rock circles though). There might be a class element as well - I felt I could relate to Shane et. al. in a way I never felt I could relate to U2. I do think it is a shame that Shane and the Pogues more generally were surrounded by people who wanted to make a profit off them without any concern for their own good. I am tempted to think the only time in his adult life anyone did anything selfless for Shane was when Sinead O'Connor turned him into the police for his heroin use.
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The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside.
This Derry guy (ahem) thinks he was a bloody great songwriter. Rum, Sodomy and the Lash is a favourite album of mine. The romanticism of alcoholism and drug addiction is a sadly inevitable part of the eulogies. Addiction doesn't help genius despite what people say. Even the patron saint of poetic drinking, Bukowski knew this. But it was part of Shane. He's a hero in Ireland. Partly because of the songs. Partly because of the drink. We like our artists flawed. It doesn't matter than he was born in England. He sung about the Irish immigrant expedience.
The Chancer Corporation
We like our flawed heroes. Luke Kelly, Phil Lynott, Brendan Behan; these are all people who walked a fine line but created something beautiful while doing so. That's not to say that the flaws are papered-over, or celebrated. They're acknowledged, we wish they weren't there, but it is what it is. McGowan definitely belongs in that pantheon.
Bono by comparison always had the air of someone who needed taking down a peg or two about him.
Bono by comparison always had the air of someone who needed taking down a peg or two about him.
If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Spinal Tap' first and 'Puppet Show' last.
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Moving forehead
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I just got really into the Pogues this year with the music helping me over some s**t times in the spring. Crock of Gold was a fine document. RIP Shane