le pen

paint it black · 24 Apr 2004, 11:26

...is not mightier than the sword

kill Jean-Marie. 1 out of 5. unnecessary gore fest

god i'm annoyed

24 Apr 2004, 11:27

Whats that all about then?

Thrash Harry · 24 Apr 2004, 17:05

Not sure. But anything anti Le Pen gets my vote. First ran into this little sh!t's supporters during an overly-long University-imposed stay in St Etienne in 1984.

Padstar · 24 Apr 2004, 19:30

Apparently he is due on these shores for some BNP event, Radio 4 was going mad about it the other day, and rightly so. He shouldnt even be let in the country unless it for a very good kicking indeed.

Paddy.

Thrash Harry · 24 Apr 2004, 22:53

Padstar wrote:Radio 4 was going mad about it the other day

Aah. I've been rather distracted this week by Fashion's Fabrique album which seems to be stuck in my car's CD player. Not that I'm complaining. You can get a bit sick of politicians who have mastered the art of bluff and journalists constantly trying to prove they were right.

Gripper · 24 Apr 2004, 23:11

The UK imprisons and then expels a muslim cleric (has he gone yet?) who tries (allegedly) to incite trouble. (Sorry, can't remember his name) Le Pen needs to be judged in the same way. Keep him out.

andymackem · 25 Apr 2004, 18:00

Except that le Pen is a French, ie EU citizen, and thus has freedom of movement within the member states of the European Union.

Despite the efforts of the ostrich right, we are still in there so I don't believe we can expell him or denty him entry. This may change if he has pending criminal charges against him in a British court, where I understand he could be arrested on arrival (and subjected to due judicial process).

Otherwise, I'm afraid we're stuck with him.

26 Apr 2004, 10:20

Black Shuck · 26 Apr 2004, 11:33

Hey, now! Hey, now now! Clam down! don't get your knickers in a twist!

We live in a free country where, fortunatley, people can say and think what they like.

Mr. Le Pen is an EU citizen; of he wants to come over here and give a speech, there's LITERALLY NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT.

Mark Fiend, your 'Sisters Gegen Nazis' logo is ironic, considering that you lot seem to want to deny this French fella his right to free speech.

He's giving his speech in Macclesfield, just up the road from me, and yesterday his arrival was greeted with a protest by a load of hippy, PC nutters (who are far more dangerous than Le Pen, in my opinion); inevitably, a full-on riot broke out in the sleepy Cheshire town between crusties and National front morons.
utter chaos!

26 Apr 2004, 12:14

Actually, I didn't say anything about denying Le Pen his rights to free speech; I wished merely to show my opposition to Le Pen's ideas. Admittedly, I can see how you could reach that conclusion, as I didn't really explain...

It is a matter of freedom of speech. Unfortunately, there are some that will abuse this freedom to advocate positions that we may find distasteful, or even downright dangerous. This is the price we pay though. Personally I am also opposed to the "silencing" of Abu Hamza; denying him freedom of speech is as bad.

The alternative to free speech is tyranny: any government who says "this you must not hear, this you must not see, this you must not know" has already started down the path to totalitarianism.

Benjamin Franklin wrote:Those who would give up essential liberties for a measure of security, deserve neither liberty nor security.

Gary · 26 Apr 2004, 13:03

Le pen is a idiot.. an educated one.. but he has the right to free speech.. so i guess im kinda agreeing with that meercat.. in a less articulate way..

keys · 26 Apr 2004, 13:12

We have people living in this country preaching hatred against the vast majority of the population...

...if you don't like it here... f*ck off elsewhere...

and then we have small minded pillocks visiting the country to preach hatred against the minorities...

...you don't live here, so don't get involved...

There you go...

...all our problems solved in one single, politically incorrect, 'say what you mean and mean what you say' paragraph...

Black Shuck · 26 Apr 2004, 13:39

Gripper wrote:The UK imprisons and then expels a muslim cleric (has he gone yet?) who tries (allegedly) to incite trouble. (Sorry, can't remember his name) Le Pen needs to be judged in the same way. Keep him out.

I don't agree that Muslim nutter is the same as Le Pen.

Le Pen is just a fella who has been invited over from France to give a talk.
Yes, he's a tw*t, but so what? the only people listening to his speech will be brain-dead BNP idiots.
Preaching to the converted. that's all.
He'll just do his silly little speech to his sily little audience and then flounce off back to his French mansion.

That Captain Hook wannabe (I forget his name) is an asylum seeker who thinks he can slag off the British WHILE LIVING LIKE A KING OFF BRITISH TAXPAYER'S MONEY.
I've got nothing against asylum seekers, but for f*ck's sake, if you wannabe seek refuge in Britain, you should KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN.
live quietly, maybe get a job, just do your own think and try not to p*ss off your hosts.
Anyone stupid enough to seek asylum and then preach hatred against a majority population should be taken to a Dover beach, put in a dinghy and given a push. He must be thick as two short planks.

26 Apr 2004, 13:43

On a purely pragmatic note concerning Abu Hamza, where would you rather have him? In the UK where the security forces can keep a very close watch on him, or in Afghanistan where one can get hold of an AK47 or several pounds of Semtex on any street corner?

paint it black · 26 Apr 2004, 18:47

markfiend wrote:On a purely pragmatic note concerning Abu Hamza, where would you rather have him? In the UK where the security forces can keep a very close watch on him, or in Afghanistan where one can get hold of an AK47 or several pounds of Semtex on any street corner?

good call MF

funny old world. Bux jumps in to save his mate

..and i start a random thread only to find out it all kicked off opposite my grandma's house in altrincham

Black Shuck · 26 Apr 2004, 18:58

That whole argument about 'keeping potential terrorists close so they can be monitored' is a nice theory, but total bollocks in practice.

The Sept. 11th terrorists and the Madrid bombers were all known, monitored, legitimate citizens. And no-one had a fecking CLUE that they were gonna carry out their atrocities.

on the other hand. if we sent that Hamza fella back to the middle East, he, like Bin Laden and his cronies, wouldn't be able to do a thing to hurt the Western world.
Think about it- No terrorist based in the middle East has yet managed to attack the west, which surely proves that they are 100% unable to.

Oooh I love it when we get all political! RicheyJames would be SO proud...

Padstar · 26 Apr 2004, 19:53

A lot of points well made, i cant help but feel though that ide still rather he wasnt here. Its all about lines in the sand and what crosses them, where they should be and who crosses them first.

Paddy.

paint it black · 26 Apr 2004, 20:27

Padstar wrote:A lot of points well made, i cant help but feel though that ide still rather he wasnt here. Its all about lines in the sand and what crosses them, where they should be and who crosses them first.

Paddy.

interesting metaphor. i'll employ one. ostrich mentality

Padstar · 26 Apr 2004, 20:40

paint it black wrote:
Padstar wrote:A lot of points well made, i cant help but feel though that ide still rather he wasnt here. Its all about lines in the sand and what crosses them, where they should be and who crosses them first.

Paddy.
interesting metaphor. i'll employ one. ostrich mentality

Fair play in a sense, i find it hard to say go away and be happy to live in a country of (relatively) free speech. If you need a non-ostrich standpoint then i would prefer that they just didnt let the man in the country,but then how much better than him does that make me?

I just dont have your brainpower PIB

Paddy.

paint it black · 26 Apr 2004, 20:51

Padstar wrote:
I just dont have your brainpower PIB

Paddy.

bollox, any fool can get into mensa

it's an interesting debate and one i fear will become much more common place in the media over the coming days

Ian - Rhythm Smurph · 27 Apr 2004, 00:35

The thing that puzzles me about all this is why a British Nationalist party is making links with a French Nationalist - surely in both of their anti EC stance's there is a certain hypocracy (surely not) in striving to create international nationalist solidarity!?!

27 Apr 2004, 09:04

"international nationalist"

nice point!

27 Apr 2004, 09:57

Black Shuck wrote:That whole argument about 'keeping potential terrorists close so they can be monitored' is a nice theory, but total bollocks in practice.

The Sept. 11th terrorists and the Madrid bombers were all known, monitored, legitimate citizens. And no-one had a fecking CLUE that they were gonna carry out their atrocities.

I'm not quite sure that's entirely the case. The Sept 11th terrorists may have been known to the FBI but I'm pretty sure they'd dropped out of sight; the FBI has pretty much admitted that they "dropped the ball" as the saying goes. I'm pretty sure that if Abu Hamza tries to get onto a flight, his bags are pretty thoroughly checked... I don't have a feckin' clue about the Madrid bombers though.

Black Shuck wrote:on the other hand. if we sent that Hamza fella back to the middle East, he, like Bin Laden and his cronies, wouldn't be able to do a thing to hurt the Western world.
Think about it- No terrorist based in the middle East has yet managed to attack the west, which surely proves that they are 100% unable to.

What? Bin Laden is based in Afghanistan; did he not mastermind Sept 11th?

Black Shuck wrote:Oooh I love it when we get all political! RicheyJames would be SO proud...

I hope so.

Padstar wrote:A lot of points well made, i cant help but feel though that ide still rather he wasnt here. Its all about lines in the sand and what crosses them, where they should be and who crosses them first.

Paddy.

I think that's fair enough. I was just trying to point out that there are valid reasons for having him here, as well as valid reasons for kicking him out. Where do you draw the lines in the sand? And what happens when the tide comes in and washes the lines away? Sorry it's gone a bit mixed-metaphor crazy now

Padstar wrote:...i find it hard to say go away and be happy to live in a country of (relatively) free speech...

This is a good point. For all its failings, Britain ain't such a bad old place is it? I can think of a lot of places that Britain is better than, but not many that it's worse than

Ian - Rhythm Smurph wrote:The thing that puzzles me about all this is why a British Nationalist party is making links with a French Nationalist - surely in both of their anti EC stance's there is a certain hypocracy (surely not) in striving to create international nationalist solidarity!?!

I actually think it was a case of the BNP thinking, "right, we're so marginalised, hardly anyone takes us seriously, what can we do to whip up a bit of controversy? Oh there's that French dude who was runner-up in the presidential elections, now he might get us some media coverage."

Or perhaps I'm crediting them with too much intelligence?

Blimey, that was a long one!