POOOOOOOOOOORTUGAL

andymackem · 28 Jun 2004, 11:19

randdebiel: still not convinced. Is it a foul to jump for a high ball?

In the first frame we can see the keeper's body weight is clearly on his back foot. We can also see the two English players looking up at the ball, which is dropping in from the top of the image.

Not surprisingly all three players want to get to the ball, which is a 50-50 loose ball for anyone to chase. In the second frame we can see that the English players' momentum has enabled them both to jump towards the point where they are expecting the ball to land. The shape of Ricardo's legs makes it clear that he has taken longer to start his jump, because of the whole momentum thing I explained earlier.

Not surprisingly, he is last to get to the ball and collides with the two English players: if three people jump into the same space there will be contact.

In basketball this is a foul, but football is a contact sport.

The third and fourth frames, viewed out of contact, appear to show Terry dragging Ricardo to the ground. BUT, Terry has leapt for the ball from the side, while the keeper is coming in the opposite direction. You can't jump and keep your arms by your side (this really isn't possible if you want to get any height), so Terry's arm position is inevitable. Ricardo has led with his arms because he can use his hands on the ball, so his arm position is no surprise. And because they are heading into the same spot they become entangled. If Ricardo had taken the ball would you argue it should be a penalty because he impeded Terry's run at the ball? He is jumping into the attacker in exactly the same way.

What you are arguing is that it is illegal for a player to challenge for a 50-50 ball if a defender or goalkeeper might end up in the same place looking for the same thing. I don't see how that can be applied to a contact sport without making the game unplayable.

That said, England did nothing like enough to deserve to win the game: from a footballing point of view the right side progressed. It doesn't mean the ref got that decision correct, though.

MrChris · 28 Jun 2004, 11:34

Most of the arguments that the goal should have been disallowed neglect one simple fact. THE GOALKEEPER WAS THE LAST PERSON TO TOUCH THE BALL. He got to it, diverted it slightly, but didn't manage to save it. There's a replay angle where you can see this clearly. So how can anyone say that he was prevented from reaching it? He just messed up his save, no doubt because Terry in front of him was (perfectly legitimately) trying to head the ball too.
The more I see it, the more I realise that England really were robbed by Mr Meier (but not by Portugal - they did what anyone would do, and good luck to them still).

Alas, nothing is going to happen about this, and if we hadn't tried to defend for 87 minutes, it probably wouldn't matter.

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 22:08

I dunno if i can take this anylonger... i have a weak heart.. damn.

WE WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON.

PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL

Padstar · 30 Jun 2004, 22:12

Missed the match, but caught the end, sounds like they deserved it and that Figo has finally found some form!

Best of luck in the final.... i reckon that will be with the Czechs.

Paddy.

Loki · 30 Jun 2004, 22:14

It's written in the sand Moonie. You're gonna win it and Figo can go to that International Retirement Heaven happy. Good luck. Unless you come up against the all conquering Czechs.

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 22:16

Johnny Boy wrote:It's written in the sand Moonie.

Just hope that the sea don't come and ruin everything.

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 22:20

Padstar wrote:Missed the match, but caught the end, sounds like they deserved it and that Figo has finally found some form!

Best of luck in the final.... i reckon that will be with the Czechs.

Paddy.

Thank you. I think it will be Greece. Let's see what will happen.

About Figo, today he played very very well. I think he was like some kind of star and didn't cared about the team. But after see that an entire country was about to pull his ears he decide to make a great game.

Loki · 30 Jun 2004, 22:20

moonchild wrote:
Johnny Boy wrote:It's written in the sand Moonie.
Just hope that the sea don't come and ruin everything.

Nah, you're there. I don't think the team will explode and lose all their discipline like last time. You'll have luck. Luck. And some luck. And win.

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 22:23

Johnny Boy wrote: You'll have luck. Luck. And some luck. And win.

I don't call luck, i call a great football, a great team.

ok sometimes we had a lil luck.. but just a lil

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 22:25

i know you all are sick of reading this, but once again... let's give hands... and in one voice sing:

PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL

Loki · 30 Jun 2004, 22:27

All great football teams have luck. That's when the ball hits the post and comes out. That's when the ref gives/doesn't give the dodgy handball in the area. You're gonna win and Portugal will have a party for the next month. Well, maybe to the end of the year. Are we all invited to the later celebrations?

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 22:44

Johnny Boy wrote:You're gonna win and Portugal will have a party for the next month. Well, maybe to the end of the year. Are we all invited to the later celebrations?

eheheheheheheh For sure we all invited. We have here lots of great food, great beer, great wine and specially great weather (this days has been between 35ÂºC and 42ÂºC).
Portugal needed to have something like this. We are passing a complicated time in the country and this made to get all ppl stay together.

We didn't stope celebrating the victories and when we stop to do it, we have the very known city parties in the 2 principal cities: Porto and Lisboa.
So this has been like a non stop party. eheheheheheh

I think we will celebrate (if we win) for 2 years, till the mundial at germany. :p

Dave R · 30 Jun 2004, 23:22

Homers.

Totally bleedin Homers.

a sceptic would say that footie was on the slide in CERTAIN european countries and that UEFA had to do something about it....

a sceptic would say that the refs (???!!!!????) were not , ahem,playing fair....

a sceptic would say that CERTAIN teams had, ahem, engineered results and decisions....

Me, I am an England Fan, not a sceptic...so I say, good luck the Gals, you are gonna need it when you play the Checks....unless the refs a homer....

Discuss.

Planet Dave · 30 Jun 2004, 23:23

Ronaldo hat-trick in the final? All depends on who wins tomorrow - a Portugal v Czech final would be a fine match - definitely be rooting for your lot in that one, Moonie. In fact, given the presence of CR, I'll be supporting you come-what-may. Nice to see him and Ruud swapping shirt at the end tonight. Red class always shines yadda yadda blah.

So long as he doesn't get injured, all is well.

moonchild · 30 Jun 2004, 23:47

doktor wolf wrote: a sceptic would say that

Thank you for all the support

Give me your hand and sing with me

OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰ OLÃ� OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰

PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL

andymackem · 01 Jul 2004, 08:12

Well, I've been critical of the Portuguese in this tournament, but I have to say they did well last night.

Congratulations!

Tonight I'm reviewing a Greek restaurant. Could be an interesting evening!

randdebiel² · 01 Jul 2004, 08:18

OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰ OLÃ� OLÃ‰ OLÃ‰

PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL PORTUGAL

the only thing bothers me is the ricardo's obvious anti-game towards the end, but that maniche goal :worshi:
and figo's work, for once :worship:

the portuguese wee definitely much better than the dutch

dead stars · 01 Jul 2004, 10:24

Moonchild:

It was a great game against Holland. I even found it too easy.
I'm very happy!
I now believe we'll be champions.

And no, referees had nothing to do with it.
I would personally like to have a match Portugal/France, but the French were too scared and run away... He!

OK, Moonchild, save your fireworks for Sunday!

Karst · 01 Jul 2004, 10:27

Bummer. But the Portuguese deserved to win. However, I do fancy the Czech to win the tournament - based on their performance throughout.

Padstar · 01 Jul 2004, 11:37

doktor wolf wrote:Homers.

Totally bleedin Homers.

a sceptic would say that footie was on the slide in CERTAIN european countries and that UEFA had to do something about it....

a sceptic would say that the refs (???!!!!????) were not , ahem,playing fair....

a sceptic would say that CERTAIN teams had, ahem, engineered results and decisions....

Me, I am an England Fan, not a sceptic...so I say, good luck the Gals, you are gonna need it when you play the Checks....unless the refs a homer....

Discuss.

MrChris · 02 Jul 2004, 19:24

Good result, and good for Greece too. I hope that Portugal win the final, for the sake of football, but also for Moonchild's eternal happiness, of course.

dead stars · 04 Jul 2004, 18:51

Understand now when I said (in other thread) the Czechs were one man show? What happened after they lost Nedved?
Which is a shame, I would have preferred the final with the Czechs.

Either way, we're going to win.

*last post of wishful thinking*

moonchild · 04 Jul 2004, 21:31

dead inside wrote: Either way, we're going to win.

*last post of wishful thinking*

We lose.

But was great to put away some great teams of this cup.

moonchild · 04 Jul 2004, 21:32

MrChris wrote:Good result, and good for Greece too. I hope that Portugal win the final, for the sake of football, but also for Moonchild's eternal happiness, of course.

I will try to have eternal happiness by other way...

Padstar · 04 Jul 2004, 21:35

5 mins to go.......