Heartland

Johnny M wrote:Anyone and everyone can post a well thought-out, reasoned discussion point on HL completely free of 'censorship' to encourage debate. This is a public forum after all, ergo ...

Andrew Eldritch wrote:I think the great lesson of the 20th century is that you have to separate the ethics from the aestetics. The Nazis did have the best uniforms, there's no denying it. The great lesson there is that you don't have to agree with what the Nazis did, but, yes, be honest about it, they did have the best uniforms. A lot of people can't come to terms with something as banal as that. They can't admit it, because somehow they feel like they're approving of what the Nazis did. That's very, very stupid, because to come to terms with the 20th century, to live in it and make the best of it - the way it is, not just sitting around holding hands, lighting candles and waiting for the next world or a better one - you have to be able to get off on those uniforms.

... who's gonna be offended by what has said? No one because he validates and justifies the simple point he's trying to make. The Nazi's did have the best uniforms. It's simply a clothing style observation. Period.

This place has never been so anally retentive PC that people can't express an opinion. This place will always crack down on those who choose to rock the boat and cause offense. You can say whatever you want, whenever you like but present a reasoned discussion point.

Just because you say you like my hat, does not mean you approve of what I stand for.

I like neither your hat, nor what you stand for.

You are deliberately trying to be provocative, and are doing too good a job of it for your own good.

Johnny M wrote: ... who's gonna be offended by what has said? No one because he validates and justifies the simple point he's trying to make. The Nazi's did have the best uniforms. It's simply a clothing style observation. Period.

It works because it's well worded and because of Von's sense of humour and absurd. He may not be right, especially since he doesn't take into account all the aspects of the issue, but you can't help being intrigued.
None of the posts that caused this mess were particularly funny.

I'm just glad I took the evening off.

Dark wrote:I like neither your hat, nor what you stand for.

You are deliberately trying to be provocative, and are doing too good a job of it for your own good.

O.K. Dark. What do I stand for? Seriously. I have tried to tell you but you don't want to hear what I have to say. Truth is, you don't know. I would tell you if you would hear me out.

DarkAngel wrote:

Dark wrote:I like neither your hat, nor what you stand for.

You are deliberately trying to be provocative, and are doing too good a job of it for your own good.

O.K. Dark. What do I stand for? Seriously. I have tried to tell you but you don't want to hear what I have to say. Truth is, you don't know. I would tell you if you would hear me out.

I think we're all listening.

Blimey - Im not on HL for a few days and I come back to see that all hell as broken loose!! Tsk!

My Twopenneth, for what its worth (so that'll be about two pence then...) is that this whole censorship debate really boils down to an issue of respect among HLers.

Yes, I think people should be free to voice an opinion, but there should also be a respect for other peoples opinions, and perhaps more importantly their feelings.

Posts that are made with an intention of antagonising/offending/upsetting another HLer have no place here.

Occaisonaly it becomes clear that your opinions and those of another individual differ to such a degree that no middle ground can be found. likewise sometimes we become involved in arguments which for whatever reason are blown up out of proportion or simply become arguments for arguments sake.

Sometimes the best course of action is to simply step back and let things be. Accept that somebody has a different opinion to you - it is their right, after all - or be big enough to be the one to walk away from an argument.
The world will be a better place for it.

As it has been pointed out on both this and 'the other' thread, this is not a public forum and as such I think the owner&mods are well within their rights to ask people to play nicely and I for one think this makes HL a better place to be. Those of you that receive the daily mailings from Dominion will know what can happen when all forms of respect and regulations are removed. I for one would be very sad to see HL head in the same direction.

The thing that has made me hang around here (after initially turning up by the lure of weeding ) is the overall feeling of community & friendship here.

Lets try and keep it that way eh?

Go right ahead. If it can justify your behaviour, I'd gladly accept it. I'm sure the moderators are also interested in your justification too.

wild bill buttock wrote:There is a fine line between censorship and moderation.But you gotta have some rules otherwise you'll get over run with trolls.

Precisely. And no one (and I mean, NO ONE) wants this place turning into the heinous free-for-all that Dominion's become. Sorry, but we're not gonna stand for it. Tough sh!t. Grow.the.f*ck.up. Etc. Thanks.

...and by the way, once again, and for hopefully the LAST TIME, this is NOT, and never has been, a public forum. It's privately owned and run, and is generously funded and lovingly maintained by its owner. Got it?! Good.

Dark wrote:Go right ahead. If it can justify your behaviour, I'd gladly accept it. I'm sure the moderators are also interested in your justification too.

If you would be willing to keep an open mind....

I am not homophobic - but used this hotbutton issue as an example to make a point. I watch everyone on this board critcize and make fun of overweight people, goths, gays, etc.....But...when 9W9 posted a throwup smiley after Motz's "cock" comment (which I personally found very crude), Motz became enraged at 9 - making all kinds of assumptions about the smiley and accusing 9 of gay-bashing. So my point is simple and very much like Eldritch's - just because you express a like or dislike of something does not necessarily mean you agree with an entire paradigm. For example, I really do not like to think about gay sex. So what? Does that mean I am homophobic? NO. It just means I'm not into that kind of visual imagery. My gay friends all know how I feel about that. They love me anyway.

SomeKindOfStranger wrote: Posts that are made with an intention of antagonising/offending/upsetting another HLer have no place here.

Aww, I'll be off then.

The bottom line in all this is simple. If you behave like a little kid, you'll be treated like one. Whinge all you like, no one cares. I'm surprised QB has been as lenient as he has. I'd have had the birch out long ago. Any and all personal disagreements should be taken to PM immediately, where you're free to rant and rave to your hearts content. Carry it on in open forum, get a slap.

Now please, grow up or fcuk off.

Fair enough that you make the point that not everybody has to approve of everybody, but it was still a little tactless, you must admit, to put a vomiting smiley right after an implication that Motz prefers males to females. He wasn't saying anything sex-related, his comment that "if it has a cock" seemed more a wondering-aloud about the gender of the person pictured. I personally had to look twice.
That said, 9w9 didn't apologise for causing offense, which is good etiquette, rather than saying "You're confusing this place with www.planetgay.co.uk" which is an implication that "Heartland is not the place for gay people". Again, good-humoured intent or not, that was somewhat tactless.
He also mentioned that he (9W9) too had suffered various forms of abuse (IIRC, please correct me if I'm wrong), when Motz said that his anger is based on homophobic abuse (which I can relate to, having suffered from some too, although presumably less because I'm bisexual, and I have a lot of liberal people in my year). Neverthless, 9W9's history of suffering doesn't excuse insensitivity when it comes to other people's suffering, if anything he should know the pain it causes, and try to show a bit more understanding.

However, none of this explains your requirement for having a provocative image as your avatar. A burning cross or a Nazi swastika would not be allowed, and neither is that image. Its history has not been one of peace and you know perfectly well the effect it has had, so I still find it inappropriate.

If your sole motivation for posting is to make inflammatory statements for sh!ts 'n' grins (especially because you've nothing better to do, and/or you're desperately seeking attention), here's a hint: don't bother. Your posts and your ilk are unwelcome here. Take a hike.

Oooooh Erika! You're so dominant.

Careful there, dear Johnny...

SINsister wrote:Careful there, dear Johnny...

Good call.

I still remember linking to your sig url years ago. At work.

Not quite my cup of tea.

like mikey/gs all over again

kill them all

I personally think Heartland (or at least some of its members) occasionally goes through fits of political correctness gone mad. That’s not to say I dislike the members, I just think they become oversensitive.

Also, it annoys me to no end to see people who claim they believe in freedom of speech and then start screaming in an offended manner about how ‘you can’t say that, it’s wrong!’

nick the stripper wrote:I personally think Heartland (or at least some of its members) occasionally goes through fits of political correctness gone mad. That’s not to say I dislike the members, I just think they become oversensitive.

Also, it annoys me to no end to see people who claim they believe in freedom of speech and then start screaming in an offended manner about how ‘you can’t say that, it’s wrong!’

And therre lies the question of - when does moderation for the sake of political correctness or to prevent hurt feelings become censorship? Please, don't hate me for asking this question. I personally don't have an answer to it. (So don't assume that I do.) It is the asking of the question itself which promotes balance. I say - Ask the question, each of you - if you dare.

anyone fancy a pint...?

Yeah, go on then.

mines a guinness James.
I've not heard so much moaning since I spent the wifes giro on charlie.

DarkAngel wrote:And therre lies the question of - when does moderation for the sake of political correctness or to prevent hurt feelings become censorship? Please, don't hate me for asking this question. I personally don't have an answer to it. (So don't assume that I do.) It is the asking of the question itself which promotes balance. I say - Ask the question, each of you - if you dare.

This guy may be a troll, but that is a valid question that deserves discussing.

Something only offends you if you let it.

Who cares if the guy makes a homophobic statement, the ignorant will laugh and the smart people will know he’s just an idiot. Seriously, why get offended by a homophobic remark when it’s quite obvious that if the person makes fun of someone vindictively just because of their sexuality, then they are obviously stupid. You guys are way too sensitive and you’re giving the troll its bottle.

that's a pint o' Guinness, one creme de'menthe and...

nick the stripper wrote:

DarkAngel wrote:And therre lies the question of - when does moderation for the sake of political correctness or to prevent hurt feelings become censorship? Please, don't hate me for asking this question. I personally don't have an answer to it. (So don't assume that I do.) It is the asking of the question itself which promotes balance. I say - Ask the question, each of you - if you dare.

This guy may be a troll, but that is a valid question that deserves discussing.

Something only offends you if you let it.

Who cares if the guy makes a homophobic statement, the ignorant will laugh and the smart people will know he’s just an idiot. Seriously, why get offended by a homophobic remark when it’s quite obvious that if the person makes fun of someone vindictively just because of their sexuality, then they are obviously stupid. You guys are way too sensitive and you’re giving the troll its bottle.

Dark - -where are you when I need you?