Heartland

Pat wrote:Is that you,me and Keith

no names, no pack drill

thanks for allowing the hi-jack Jess

Pat wrote:

James Blast wrote:

canon docre wrote:What does he see when looking into his audience?

Balding old fat blokes, Specky bastards and Ginger nuts!

Is that you,me and Keith

I thought it was me, me and me




Christ that's sad...

weebleswobble wrote:Fair enough Syberberg but just 'cause you're a great lyricist disnae mean you can vanish up yer own jacksie

That's true. I mean, just because he can't be arsed to put anything out from the studio is a bit, well, annoying to say-the-least and I find all the excuses that blame the industry/pondlife/audience to be wearing rather thin. If it were me, I'd release them just to prove a point. But all this procrastination of his is turning onto a very bad version of Hamlet.

Jeez you're good Syberberg!

There's another explanation apart from the "no one gets the lyrics anymore" thing : Von's supposed to be a recording artist and yet he hates everything that has to do with the record companies, the music business, etc. I guess it's not that he doesn't see the point in making the songs available, but there's no way in his mind to make them available in a satisfactory way : on a large scale, by some competent record company, with the required degree of artistic freedom. That I can understand, even if it does annoy me.

In a way this is comparable to Kate Bush's situation, who stopped touring altogether in 1979. She wasn't very interesting in all the crap that goes with touring. And she too struggled mightily to achieve artistic freedom BTW.

Syberberg wrote:That's true. I mean, just because he can't be arsed to put anything out from the studio is a bit, well, annoying to say-the-least and I find all the excuses that blame the industry/pondlife/audience to be wearing rather thin. If it were me, I'd release them just to prove a point. But all this procrastination of his is turning onto a very bad version of Hamlet.

Harsh but true.

mh wrote:

Syberberg wrote:That's true. I mean, just because he can't be arsed to put anything out from the studio is a bit, well, annoying to say-the-least and I find all the excuses that blame the industry/pondlife/audience to be wearing rather thin. If it were me, I'd release them just to prove a point. But all this procrastination of his is turning onto a very bad version of Hamlet.

Harsh but true.

Syberberg should talk to , someone get the number!

Plus the fact that no major label's going to touch him with a bargepole.

No label owned by Warner is going to go near the band anymore, the other Big Five-owned labels know that he took advantage of WEA when SSVing his way out. No independent labels have the money or distribution he wants.

Face it, his "starting position" of $3m is looking more and more pathetic and fewer labels seem to care.

Lower it to a single on sale-or-return at a few shops and you'll sell them. Demand money like that from an audience, professional or otherwise, with waning interest, and the albums won't be out.

Dark wrote:Plus the fact that no major label's going to touch him with a bargepole.

No label owned by Warner is going to go near the band anymore, the other Big Five-owned labels know that he took advantage of WEA when SSVing his way out. No independent labels have the money or distribution he wants.

Face it, his "starting position" of $3m is looking more and more pathetic and fewer labels seem to care.

Lower it to a single on sale-or-return at a few shops and you'll sell them. Demand money like that from an audience, professional or otherwise, with waning interest, and the albums won't be out.

That's part of the problem, isn't it?

An independent single or two, just to show the big labels (who couldn't be arsed unless it's in the charts) that there is still a viable fan base out there sure wouldn't hurt right now.

Badlander wrote:There's another explanation apart from the "no one gets the lyrics anymore" thing : Von's supposed to be a recording artist and yet he hates everything that has to do with the record companies, the music business, etc. I guess it's not that he doesn't see the point in making the songs available, but there's no way in his mind to make them available in a satisfactory way : on a large scale, by some competent record company, with the required degree of artistic freedom. That I can understand, even if it does annoy me.

In a way this is comparable to Kate Bush's situation, who stopped touring altogether in 1979. She wasn't very interesting in all the crap that goes with touring. And she too struggled mightily to achieve artistic freedom BTW.

Good point. The thing is, Andrew now has the artistic freedom he always said he's wanted, he just doesn't seem to know what to actually do with it. He could release on a large scale via the Merciful Release section of the website (otherwise, why on earth is it there?) and I'm pretty sure that word would spread via here and the Dominion mailing list. So sales can't be that much of a factor, it's almost got to be something deeper, something on a more intense and personal level that goes beyond sheer laziness.

I just wonder if his inner monologue, when considering any form of independant release, goes something like this:

"To release or not to release: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous music journalism,
Or to take arms against a sea of pondlife,
And by opposing end them?"

Jeez you're good Syberberg!

Thanks James.

Syberberg should talk to ! , someone get the number!

That might not be such a Good Idea weebleswobble...it has the potential to go downhill very rapidly indeed. That's if Von would actually listen to me in the first place.

wild bill buttock wrote:

A.void wrote:People seem to think that Eldritch personally owes them something for being his most loyal nutcases.

Sorry mate but this statement is complete old bollocks.
Andrew Eldritch does owe his loyal fanbase.

QED., A.void.
Sorry mate, you might not believe me but a few of us actually like the current band & sound and it's a bit annoying to see some nostalgic whingers trying to sour it up for the rest of us. If you can't accept that artists undergo change, like everyone else, and you want Eldritch to stay forever in the tracks of his early appearances miming a gloomy, angst-driven, drug-addled twenty-something at the age of 47 just so you can indulge in a cheap, superficial nostalgia trip you probably need to get your reality screws readjusted rather sooner than later.

nowayjose wrote:

wild bill buttock wrote:

A.void wrote:People seem to think that Eldritch personally owes them something for being his most loyal nutcases.

Sorry mate but this statement is complete old bollocks.
Andrew Eldritch does owe his loyal fanbase.

QED., A.void.
Sorry mate, you might not believe me but a few of us actually like the current band & sound and it's a bit annoying to see some nostalgic whingers trying to sour it up for the rest of us. If you can't accept that artists undergo change, like everyone else, and you want Eldritch to stay forever in the tracks of his early appearances miming a gloomy, angst-driven, drug-addled twenty-something at the age of 47 just so you can indulge in a cheap, superficial nostalgia trip you probably need to get your reality screws readjusted rather sooner than later.

nowayjose you just do not get it - "nostalgic whingers"-Someone crank the Fud Alert

weebleswobble wrote:

nowayjose wrote:

wild bill buttock wrote: Sorry mate but this statement is complete old bollocks.
Andrew Eldritch does owe his loyal fanbase.

QED., A.void.
Sorry mate, you might not believe me but a few of us actually like the current band & sound and it's a bit annoying to see some nostalgic whingers trying to sour it up for the rest of us. If you can't accept that artists undergo change, like everyone else, and you want Eldritch to stay forever in the tracks of his early appearances miming a gloomy, angst-driven, drug-addled twenty-something at the age of 47 just so you can indulge in a cheap, superficial nostalgia trip you probably need to get your reality screws readjusted rather sooner than later.

nowayjose you just do not get it - "nostalgic whingers"-Someone crank the Fud Alert

I say, where's the FUDmaster when you need him?

Syberberg wrote: If it were me, I'd release them just to prove a point.

Exactly what point would he prove by releasing a record?

1. He cant get a decent record deal at a major label nowadays.
2. He can't write Hit singles anymore.
3. He sells a lot less than before.
4. The world doesnt care.

I'm completely sure he's aware of these points, but the moment he would release, they would become apparent to the outside too and his theoretical failure would become a real one.

Hard to take if your lifelong dreams shatters by reality.

Syberberg wrote:"To release or not to release: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous music journalism,
Or to take arms against a sea of pondlife,
And by opposing end them?"

The man's a study in contradiction indeed.
But hey, what would I do if I were in his shoes ? No better for sure.

He’s free to do what he wants to do. . I’d love to hear some new stuff, and wouldn’t really mind if it was a blistering new album, or an album of 80’s electro streetsounds covers. Whatever he wants to do. I might like it, I might not. That’s my choice. The only thing that really niggles me is the veiled promises of new material “a dvd�, a few singles, a shelf full of songs, the (relatively constant given the band’s communication process) tantalising dangling of something that never materialises. That is frustrating. If she came out and said, the future is touring and now't else, fair do's. But niggles is a good word.

Mokarran wrote:Markfiend - my point was simply that Von chooses not to go down the most obviously commercial/exploitative path, so money cannot be his sole motivation. Can it?

Aye, I was agreeing.

But hey, we've moved on to Hamlet now?

Oscar Wilde wrote: The central problem in Hamlet is whether the critics are mad or only pretending to be mad.

Discuss.

twp wrote:The only thing that really niggles me is the veiled promises of new material “a dvd�, a few singles, a shelf full of songs, the (relatively constant given the band’s communication process) tantalising dangling of something that never materialises.

Don't get me wrong : that's two completely different subjects. Von did say and write at various points that some singles and a DVD were in the making. On the other hand, he never at any point publicly mentioned the shelf full of new songs. He was just casually talking to a dedicated fan (not me), and never made anything close to a promise. I don't have the details, but I guess it's perfectly normal for any recording artist to write and record new stuff. Not releasing any of it is a tad more annoying of course. If there wasn't any new unreleased stuff at all, then I'd be very surprised.

There's a difference between "I do have the new songs, but why bother ?" and "I do have the new songs and I may or may not one day release them."

mea culpa, i thought i had read somewhere that he had an album full of material ready to go. i could be wrong, it has been known - more frequently than is comfortable.

.and, thinking about it, a cover of sugarhill's elctro back catalogue would be a very bad idea.

canon docre wrote:

Syberberg wrote: If it were me, I'd release them just to prove a point.

Exactly what point would he prove by releasing a record?

That quality outweights quanity. That substance can go hand in hand with style, rather than style subsuming substance.

1. He cant get a decent record deal at a major label nowadays.
2. He can't write Hit singles anymore.
3. He sells a lot less than before.
4. The world doesnt care.

I'm completely sure he's aware of these points, but the moment he would release, they would become apparent to the outside too and his theoretical failure would become a real one.

Hard to take if your lifelong dreams shatters by reality.

1. One would've thought that the example of the success of the Artic Monkeys clearly shows that the traditional way of releasing records, by relying upon the majors, is now somewhat outdated.

2. The Sisters never really set out to wirte hit singles in the first place and since the release of This Corrosion, all the singles have reached the Top 20 in the UK. But that was when the charts were based on sales alone, rather than airplay and sales. At least now the charts are also recognising downloads, but only if there is a physical product released within two weeks of the download release being available. Given the appaling state of singles sales, The Sisters could very easily make the Top 20 again, just on sales alone.

3. At the moment sales are currently zero, so not very difficult to improve on that. An official release would sell very easily and most likely hit the Gold mark (500,000) with ease, if not get close to Platinum (1 million).

4. The world does care, or at least that part of the world in which lives The Sisters fanbase.

In your last paragragh...you're saying he's already a failure?

So now that the charts are recognising downloads, wouldn't a new Sisters single zip in at numero uno (the fans are, after all, mostly loyal and still fairly numerous), then fall away quickly? He'd get the press, there'd be a spot in the Daily Mail on 'the goth revival' and he's then be in the frame for big bucks? Would it work that way? I dunno.

Mokarran

@Syberberg

1. Do you see the Sisters as trendy/hyped/youth appealing as the Artic Monkeys? I don’t.
You’re perfectly right, releasing records on a major is just one of many options nowadays and surely not the only way to success. But releasing on his own via the net involves a hell lot more work for Mr. E, if he wants to have the different parts of the production process firmly under control. As he mentioned on a few occasions that they’re talking to different majors about a deal, it would look like a step down the ladder to release on his own. I just don’t believe his ego can take it.

2. I don’t see the sisters come up with a mass audience appealing Hit single like This Corrision, More and ToL. Don’t get me wrong, I hold dearly the new songs and I can see some Single potential in Susanne, but in no way as commercial as the above mentioned.

3. and 4. I just don’t see it happen. Surely the fans would buy whatever comes out, but there’re not 500.000 to 1 Mio of them out there. For most of the concert goers the sisters are a nostalgia act and they like to dwell in the heydays of their youth, rather then being interested in new material.

From a recording artist point of view his career is a failure, yes. He had the whole world in his hands but his ego prevented him of making enough out of it. After the Warner quarrels were over he thought he could easily get a new deal with another major involving complete artistic freedom and garnished with a big advance. Well, it just didn’t happen. Then the momentum was over.

It’s the eternal battle of artistic integrity vs. commerciality. That he never gave in is adorable, albeit a bit unrewarding from the fans point of view.

Are we really saying The sisters of mercy can't sell records anymore?
Wake up and smell the coffee,people.The bloke has just completed a major European and North American sell out(almost) tour on the back of no recent product,almost zero publicity and a history of p*ss-poor live shows.
Even a mediocre album is going to sell s**t loads!
The interest is still there obviously.Every darkling,black metal and goth-metal band are citing The girls as a major influence.Trad goth(Sorry) is at its most popular for 15 years.I go to a mainly trad-goth club most weeks and as well as us old "Nostalgics" there is an influx of late teen/early 20's uni students and they're there to hear the Sisters,the Neph et al.Play Dominion or TOL at any rock club and the dance floor will be packed.Only the most ignorant techno-headed cyber-goth could deny TSOM's contribution to dark electronica.Even sub goth like "The Editors" are selling bucket loads of albums.NME's tip for the next big thing is a death-rock/batcave style gothic band called "The horrors".
C'mon Von get your head out of your arse!
Von can't expect the major record labels to be interested.When the f**k have they any idea what people over 12 and under 50 really want to hear?


P.s.I'd like to thank nowayjose for demonstrating to all of us south of the border the true meaning of the ancient Scottish word
FUD

wild bill buttock wrote:Are we really saying The sisters of mercy can't sell records anymore?
Wake up and smell the coffee,people.The bloke has just completed a major European and North American sell out(almost) tour on the back of no recent product,almost zero publicity and a history of p*ss-poor live shows.
Even a mediocre album is going to sell s**t loads!
The interest is still there obviously.Every darkling,black metal and goth-metal band are citing The girls as a major influence.Trad goth(Sorry) is at its most popular for 15 years.I go to a mainly trad-goth club most weeks and as well as us old "Nostalgics" there is an influx of late teen/early 20's uni students and they're there to hear the Sisters,the Neph et al.Play Dominion or TOL at any rock club and the dance floor will be packed.Only the most ignorant techno-headed cyber-goth could deny TSOM's contribution to dark electronica.Even sub goth like "The Editors" are selling bucket loads of albums.NME's tip for the next big thing is a death-rock/batcave style gothic band called "The horrors".
C'mon Von get your head out of your arse!
Von can't expect the major record labels to be interested.When the f**k have they any idea what people over 12 and under 50 really want to hear?


P.s.I'd like to thank nowayjose for demonstrating to all of us south of the border the true meaning of the ancient Scottish word
FUD

Welll said......