Heartland

sultan2075 wrote:

abridged wrote:Like QB says. Reading way too much into it.

Yeah. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, etc.

however

copper wrote:Stumbled upon it.

Ah, yes, that's the one - I've got the audio version - somewhere...Should have known he'd have a transcription!

And also wrote:Not a pretty sight, all n' all, with allusions to sexual abuse at the age of four - as well as physical parental torture.

Erm, I don't see any allusions to sexual abuse specifically, and didn't intend anyone to make that connexion by my earlier remark. The comments he's made about there being a necessary element of violence in sexual relationships may have absolutely nothing to do with any childhood experiences - or may be associated with any sort of pleasurable/affectionate interactions, if he indeed suffered physical abuse from loved and/or trusted adults. On the other hand, there are other factors to be considered. (Look out, here comes my Cultural Relativist aspect...) Assuming this was 'torture' may be way off the mark if it was, indeed, the Chinese nurse who was responsible.

And also wrote:Not trying to sound like a shrink, but such experiences generally lead to children growing with a lasting sense of insecurity in some levels, which tends to make them a bit 'guarded'. Some of Von's decisions and attitudes in relationships (both working and personal) would obviously be colored by such memories. And when you're a bit of a lone wolf to begin with, that sort of combination doesn't exactly amount to the most accessible person on the planet.

All logical and thereby possible. None provable - and he sure isn't going to confirm it one way or the other. No doubt this sort of thing is precisely why he tends to be so close-mouthed about his interpersonal relationships...

Debi wrote:it makes me wonder whether - for instance - in andrews case - studying something quite off the wall, taking drugs and expressing himself via the music and image - was and maybe still is a cry for help, love and attention that he lacked when young?

In my experience, it's a pretty common reaction. It doesn't by definition follow that everyone who chooses that lifestyle is doing it exclusively for those reasons, but it certainly can be a factor.

Von wrote:You’ve got to have something twisted in you somewhere – not to want to be a rock star, ‘cos I never really wanted to be one – but to fuel you...

John Gardner famously said essentially the same thing about being a writer:

A psychological wound is helpful, if it can be kept in partial control, to keep the novelist driven.

This doesn't necessarily mean his parents were monsters, of course - all that's necessary to cut off communication is an essentially lack of sympathy. (If my own mother weren't so in denial about the fact that she knows virtually nothing about who I am, she would probably have disappeared out of my life years ago.) But it does provide the emotional basis for creative process a lot of the time. A lot of the time...

Still and all, do keep in mind that he doesn't necessarily believe everything he thinks...

Quiff Boy wrote:i think you're all reading faaaaar too much into it

My thoughts exactly.
And I also think that in this thread faaaaaar too little attention is paid to the very last paragraph of that interview.

Remember Baudrillard complaining of people (especially artists) over thinking his work saying sometimes a table is just a table....

It isn't the first time when we heard we recording. Even that this said Chris doesn't change anything, but don't know why i think that Ben will not be sent to a real interview but just this for funniest magazine like that Portugal zin or whatever it is.

7anthea7 wrote:No doubt this sort of thing is precisely why he tends to be so close-mouthed about his interpersonal relationships...

Too true - of course you could also say that the fact that he is so close mouthed about his personal life and relationships is exactly what leads to this sort of thing anytime the smallest tidbit of information is revealed. Not that I blame him - if I was in his position I'd probably do the same. People I know IRL have said I'm a very hard person to get to know, being the quiet introverted type so I understand hesitating to reveal too much about yourself. Certain things, anyways, until I feel comfortable enough with someone (which takes a lot...of course I'm sure I say too much online, hiding behind a computer is another story )

7anthea7 wrote:all that's necessary to cut off communication is an essentially lack of sympathy. (If my own mother weren't so in denial about the fact that she knows virtually nothing about who I am, she would probably have disappeared out of my life years ago.)

Oh boy - I'm actually pretty close to both of my parents (divorced, mother remarried) but definitely have my issues with both of them, separately. And while I adore my mother's family, I would be perfectly happy to never see my father's family ever again. I do the minimum of keeping in touch with them (going to family functions, holidays, etc) for my dad's sake, otherwise, yeah, cutting off all communication would be no problem for me - won't go into detail, this really isn't the place, as stated above. But I totally agree - a lack of sympathy, for whatever reason, is really all it takes to cut everything off, they don't have to be terrible people. I have no such sympathy for my dad's family, but I do for my dad, otherwise I already would have cut myself off from them.

The confessional in poetry can be done brilliantly, Plath, Sexton, Lowell for instance. But it's a different medium. Total confession in music I'm not that convinced of. Though I love Nine While Nine, Driven like the Snow etc I think it's good there's Floorshow, Dr. Jeep, You Could be the One. A reliance on the confessional dosen't give you much room to move, as Nick Cave noted recently. And as Morrissey has found out. Always thought that the Sisters had a healthy mix of the confessional, the wry, ironic and political.

Nicole wrote:

7anthea7 wrote:No doubt this sort of thing is precisely why he tends to be so close-mouthed about his interpersonal relationships...

Too true - of course you could also say that the fact that he is so close mouthed about his personal life and relationships is exactly what leads to this sort of thing anytime the smallest tidbit of information is revealed. Not that I blame him - if I was in his position I'd probably do the same. People I know IRL have said I'm a very hard person to get to know, being the quiet introverted type so I understand hesitating to reveal too much about yourself. Certain things, anyways, until I feel comfortable enough with someone (which takes a lot...of course I'm sure I say too much online, hiding behind a computer is another story )

The personal things are not exactly public buisness anyway, are they? I guess a public person from the music buisness needs some kind of social firewall, or a private life becomes impossible.
Even good friends can be too many at some point.
A sad fact. Probably even the good news get stuck in that firewall.

Quiff Boy wrote:"one black night in 1963" is a throwaway comment.

as interesting (& even unique in its tone and content) as that interview segment is, i think you're all reading faaaaar too much into it

you don't have to have been raised by hindley & brady to not want much to do with your folks. as you grow up you forge your own sense of self, and quite often this is very different to that of your kith & kin, to the point where you dont have much in common with them. no malice, no great event acting as a turning point, just a gradual growing up and growing apart.

everything else is pure conjecture, and imho off the mark.

Apart from the cigarette burns, which he blames squarely on his parents. Not sexual, as I said, but definitely physical. Of course, he could be joking) I wouldn't put it past him) but that would be pure conjecture.

a lot of his comments could be tongue in cheek just to make him seem more enigmatic and tortured?

and to get us talking of course!!

Yes, that's really what I meant when I said he could be joking but you put it better.

Quiff Boy wrote:

sultan2075 wrote:

abridged wrote:Like QB says. Reading way too much into it.

Yeah. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, etc.

however

Anyway, such affairs can hardly be evaluated rightly by anyone else but the person concerned, if at all.
Most people had rather not talk about their own such encounters - for various well-founded reasons.

At the same token, most people won't listen to you if you start to unveil such details about your origins

and many of them might - as a rule - recommend you a therapy to have these things sorted out with somebody else.

And as every competitor knows, there is no longer all that much to be sorted out once the damage is done.
IMHO, this it's definitely a private affair one might discuss - at one's own risk- with one's confiders.



Insofar I prefer to turn from these more or less public speculations back to other
more or less public speculations on the original issue of this post.

I do, for example, have no idea of South Africa at all.
The end of apartheid and, more recently, a high crime rate were the last things I noted.

Japan is surely very different from South Africa. For the climate already.
The first time I had some Sushi, it became suddenly clear to me that the Japanese
must be far more closely related to the Inuit than to the Chinese. Well, perhaps I'm at error about the Chinese.

Anyway, I can easily imagine the Japanese (and the Inuit) already waiting a long time for the Sisters to come. . .

It were, presumably, of no harm to release a new record before.
On the other hand ...

stufarq wrote:Yes, that's really what I meant when I said he could be joking but you put it better.

why thank you - i shall have to book mark your comment as usually my posts come across totally incoherant!!!

Somewhere (?) here on this forum,there's a thread about the song Suzanne.IIRC there is a reference to an interview in which AE says "my mother,always the curious one in the family,asked me who Suzanne is".This means his mum heard Suzanne and it's not as if she could've heard it on the radio...I think when AE says his family is irrelevant,he means his family is irrelevant to us.

Nadia81 wrote:Somewhere (?) here on this forum,there's a thread about the song Suzanne.IIRC there is a reference to an interview in which AE says "my mother,always the curious one in the family,asked me who Suzanne is".This means his mum heard Suzanne and it's not as if she could've heard it on the radio...I think when AE says his family is irrelevant,he means his family is irrelevant to us.

Here

The Green Lantern wrote:Have you heard, can't remember when and where, where Von talks about Suzanne. "Last night my mother, who is the most curious amongst the family, called and asked 'so, who is Suzanne?'" Or something like that. He then states that "Suzanne is ether."

So the original source and exact wording are still unconfirmed.

He claims not to have much if any contact with his family. Being in a similar situation myself...it takes moving to another country and assuming a new identity to stop your mother from calling, even if you haven't seen her in years.

Which doesn't negate the idea the his family is 'irrelevant to us'. But I suspect it's pretty irrelevant to him as well.

Thanks for locating that ,Anthea.Here I thought I was such a smarty-pants and all I remembered was someone else's memory.Silly me.

Nadia81 wrote:Thanks for locating that ,Anthea.Here I thought I was such a smarty-pants and all I remembered was someone else's memory.Silly me.

Hey, I'm amazed you recalled it as well as you did - it was sheer luck that it was a topic that didn't turn up 5000 threads in a search...

7anthea7 wrote:

The Green Lantern wrote:Have you heard, can't remember when and where, where Von talks about Suzanne. "Last night my mother, who is the most curious amongst the family, called and asked 'so, who is Suzanne?'" Or something like that. He then states that "Suzanne is ether."

Which doesn't negate the idea the his family is 'irrelevant to us'. But I
suspect it's pretty irrelevant to him as well.

Might be one of 's jokes to make us aware we're behaving like all the mothers
we hated posing questions about our private relations ... while we were trying to escape their dominion ...

timsinister wrote:Too true, but not all Brits abroad are the Club 18-30 generation.

long since ineligible.