Heartland

God bless her and her family, but i still can't stand her music. Mr Blast you are a blast. Thank you.

quite a loss at 27 years of age. poor lass. R.I.P. dear.

if only the people closest to her could help her. the manager obviously didn't give a sh1t.

Monroe meets Elvis.

Her Live in London DVD is second only to Wake in my afterhours viewing.

It's hard to acknowledge the destructiveness of a lifestyle which has brought you success.

MadameButterfly wrote:
if only the people closest to her could help her. the manager obviously didn't give a sh1t.

I imagine both her manager and her agent, if she had such a thing, have already started counting the cash.

QUOTE: "I don’t need help because if I can't help myself I can’t be helped"
~ Amy Winehouse

Occasionally I wonder why I don't log on here much anymore. This thread reminds me.

I wish I was more surprised at some of the responses I've read, but even so, I still thought HL was a cut above YouTube levels of nastiness. I fail to understand what Amy Winehouse ever did to warrant such a level of antipathy. She didn't deliberately plan her demise for the same day as a mass shooting. There seems to be a special brand of vitriolic scorn that reserved for "junkies" which I find particularly hypocritical and arrogant when it comes (as it often does) from people who have themselves indulged in narcotics in quite a serious way. It's as though they think their failure to slide into the absolute doldrums of heroin or alcohol addiction is testament to their strength of character. If you knew where to stop, or if you pulled yourself back from the brink, well bully for you - but there's no need to look down your nose at someone who didn't.

Another thing I can't help but notice is the double standard - if a young woman whose music you're not keen on self-destructs or fucks themselves up on drink, drugs and general chaos, she's a "trainwreck", mad bint or similar. If a young guy with a baritone voice does it, he's Ian Curtis or Jim Morrison. If he does it his whole life and survives to be a hoary old bloke, he's a rock'n'roll legend and you buy his autobiography.

I don't think her death should receive an enormous amount of attention or be glamourized - she is not a "tragic heroine" either. She was just a young woman, same age as me, who could have pulled herself out of the mire at some point. It happens. But since she's lost that chance, can we please let her go cold before we start being dicks?

Very well put, B.

Erudite wrote:

MadameButterfly wrote:
if only the people closest to her could help her. the manager obviously didn't give a sh1t.

I imagine both her manager and her agent, if she had such a thing, have already started counting the cash.

indeed & that within itself a very sad thing!

James Blast wrote:QUOTE: "I don’t need help because if I can't help myself I can’t be helped"
~ Amy Winehouse

and that within itself something very true indeed. if you listen to her songs and all the lyrics that she sung, it was a lady crying out for help but a help she herself didn't believe in or wasn't strong enough to get through. life just does that to some people and for artists the pressure must be super double. but if one is close to someone like that then i would think you would do all in your power to help her. maybe my mother nature instinct kicking in but still. as a manager to agent close to her, you don't let your star go on stage & make a fool of herself, time & time again? come on, people need to have a backbone & fooking strict and to the point to help someone over all her addictions... and held in the institutions she admitted herself into to actually get over her problem, but oh yeah, that would have taken too much time and too much cash flow loss... how stupid of me.

boudicca wrote:Occasionally I wonder why I don't log on here much anymore. This thread reminds me.

I wish I was more surprised at some of the responses I've read, but even so, I still thought HL was a cut above YouTube levels of nastiness. I fail to understand what Amy Winehouse ever did to warrant such a level of antipathy. She didn't deliberately plan her demise for the same day as a mass shooting. There seems to be a special brand of vitriolic scorn that reserved for "junkies" which I find particularly hypocritical and arrogant when it comes (as it often does) from people who have themselves indulged in narcotics in quite a serious way. It's as though they think their failure to slide into the absolute doldrums of heroin or alcohol addiction is testament to their strength of character. If you knew where to stop, or if you pulled yourself back from the brink, well bully for you - but there's no need to look down your nose at someone who didn't.

Another thing I can't help but notice is the double standard - if a young woman whose music you're not keen on self-destructs or fucks themselves up on drink, drugs and general chaos, she's a "trainwreck", mad bint or similar. If a young guy with a baritone voice does it, he's Ian Curtis or Jim Morrison. If he does it his whole life and survives to be a hoary old bloke, he's a rock'n'roll legend and you buy his autobiography.

I don't think her death should receive an enormous amount of attention or be glamourized - she is not a "tragic heroine" either. She was just a young woman, same age as me, who could have pulled herself out of the mire at some point. It happens. But since she's lost that chance, can we please let her go cold before we start being dicks?

MadameButterfly wrote:
. as a manager to agent close to her, you don't let your star go on stage & make a fool of herself, time & time again? come on, people need to have a backbone & fooking strict and to the point to help someone over all her addictions... and held in the institutions she admitted herself into to actually get over her problem, but oh yeah, that would have taken too much time and too much cash flow loss... how stupid of me.

I might be wrong but I think both her manager AND father did exactly that. Both her and her bf were checked in somwhere and they both checked themselves out a few days later.

boudicca wrote:There seems to be a special brand of vitriolic scorn that reserved for "junkies" which I find particularly hypocritical and arrogant when it comes (as it often does) from people who have themselves indulged in narcotics in quite a serious way. It's as though they think their failure to slide into the absolute doldrums of heroin or alcohol addiction is testament to their strength of character. If you knew where to stop, or if you pulled yourself back from the brink, well bully for you - but there's no need to look down your nose at someone who didn't.

I don't know whether this was particularly aimed at me, but if it was... and even if it wasn't... I think I deserve it.

Not on this thread, admittedly. But yeah. Point taken.

Yeah, I can be very good at hypocritical and arrogant, and I'm not particularly proud of it. Thanks for the wake-up call.

It's very easy to make pronouncements from on-high, especially over the internet. (Not that I've not done it in real life too...)

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

markfiend wrote:

boudicca wrote:There seems to be a special brand of vitriolic scorn that reserved for "junkies" which I find particularly hypocritical and arrogant when it comes (as it often does) from people who have themselves indulged in narcotics in quite a serious way. It's as though they think their failure to slide into the absolute doldrums of heroin or alcohol addiction is testament to their strength of character. If you knew where to stop, or if you pulled yourself back from the brink, well bully for you - but there's no need to look down your nose at someone who didn't.

I don't know whether this was particularly aimed at me, but if it was... and even if it wasn't... I think I deserve it.

Not on this thread, admittedly. But yeah. Point taken.

Yeah, I can be very good at hypocritical and arrogant, and I'm not particularly proud of it. Thanks for the wake-up call.

It's very easy to make pronouncements from on-high, especially over the internet. (Not that I've not done it in real life too...)

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

Ack! No, I wasn't going for anyone in particular, just my own particular corner of the internet in general (I've heard a lot of this stuff over the past few days). But for what it's worth, I don't think you come off hypocritical and arrogant at all - quite the contrary. In these discussions, you usually provide some level-headedness when everyone else (including myself) is shooting their mouth off!

Shall I sit on the fence and do the "didn't like her music but respected what she did" thing?

Shall I f*ck.

Hated her, though I could see why her music touched people. However, anyone who says "I want to be a role model" (that quote from her does exist, I just can't be arsed finding it) and then acts the way she does doesn't get any respect from me. All other valid points made here about her aside, and there have been plenty, that single quote made her an utter disgrace in my eyes.

Damn shame she didn't get the chance to make amends. I hope she finds the peace she couldn't find here.

RIP Amy.

boudicca wrote:Ack! No, I wasn't going for anyone in particular, just my own particular corner of the internet in general (I've heard a lot of this stuff over the past few days). But for what it's worth, I don't think you come off hypocritical and arrogant at all - quite the contrary. In these discussions, you usually provide some level-headedness when everyone else (including myself) is shooting their mouth off!

Oh that's OK then.

I certainly have been judgemental about certain kinds of drug users in the past. My excuse is that my experiences were coloured by one particular heroin user. I saw a mention of the guy in the YEP a couple of years back and it was actually a surprise (and a pleasant surprise, even after everything) to me that he was still alive.

markfiend wrote:
I certainly have been judgemental about certain kinds of drug users in the past. My excuse is that my experiences were coloured by one particular heroin user. I saw a mention of the guy in the YEP a couple of years back and it was actually a surprise (and a pleasant surprise, even after everything) to me that he was still alive.

A Daily Mail attitude towards drug users? Considering the drug abuse Eldritch has gone through I'm surprised at such a thing on this forum.

moses wrote:

markfiend wrote:
I certainly have been judgemental about certain kinds of drug users in the past. My excuse is that my experiences were coloured by one particular heroin user. I saw a mention of the guy in the YEP a couple of years back and it was actually a surprise (and a pleasant surprise, even after everything) to me that he was still alive.

A Daily Mail attitude towards drug users? Considering the drug abuse Eldritch has gone through I'm surprised at such a thing on this forum.

I think we can assume that Fiendy doesn't have any such attitude.

James Blast wrote:http://intuitionkitchenproductions.com/ ... ftcollabs/

I really want one of those Charlie Manson ones.

Well, if markfiend is going to confess to a hypocritical and arrogant side that on this forum that I must say I've never seen (he remains the only person I've ever seen admit they were wrong and apologise on the internet), I will admit to delivering lofty pronouncements disdainfully on other peoples faults or weaknesses.
I tend to find drug addicts fairly pathetic people. I can't wrap my head around someone destroying their body for no other reason than it feels good and expecting sympathy for their current condition or respect for actually stopping. My response tends to be "Stop doing it then/you were an idiot to start". And it drives me up the wall when it's used as a mitigating factor in crime, particularly violent crime. As if mugging someone for drugs funds is any better than doing it because you just like money. Both are to feed selfish needs. It's just the usual "pity me!!" wail the weak-willed always use when they don't want to take responsibility for their own actions.
As for Winehouse..I feel bad because largely she was so young and she had talent, even if it wasn't the kind of music I liked. She had something to give and now that's wasted.

"Just a piece of new meat, in a clean room"
http://www.wordmagazine.co.uk/content/i ... ont-get-it

Pete Docherty has moved out of his flat in London because it's now haunted by Amy........

Could she be The ghost of Christmas Future?

She's probably been telling him that he's next.

Debaser wrote:

MadameButterfly wrote:
. as a manager to agent close to her, you don't let your star go on stage & make a fool of herself, time & time again? come on, people need to have a backbone & fooking strict and to the point to help someone over all her addictions... and held in the institutions she admitted herself into to actually get over her problem, but oh yeah, that would have taken too much time and too much cash flow loss... how stupid of me.

I might be wrong but I think both her manager AND father did exactly that. Both her and her bf were checked in somwhere and they both checked themselves out a few days later.

yikes sorry this is such a late reply. yes i remember the both of them checking themselves in and then out within days, obviously they weren't very serious about the quitting. shame actually as it was said she died because of the huge amount of alcohol in her system which was far about the average norm. again poor lass, she really needed to want to help herself but that was too difficult for her.